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hey all

are crusaders the answer to stopping those wraithknights or imperial knights? 9 crusaders which each have a 3++ save with 2 priests who can allow the crusaders to have a rerollable 3++ and also can have a str 6 armourbane ap2 weapon. And a psyker who can cast a psychic ability to increase invun saves by 1 making the crusaders have a 2++ invun re-rollable due to the priests.

Put that unit in a land raider and get it into combat with the nastiest combat unit your opponent has and theres no way your opponent will get out of that combat by the end of the game.

is it a viable option or is it deemed to fail?

Wraith knights will charge in and hit you with the D. The big bad D dont care about your invul save.

The best way to kill Wraith Knights is grav.

Grief wrote:
Wraith knights will charge in and hit you with the D. The big bad D dont care about your invul save.

The best way to kill Wraith Knights is grav.

I thought the D only ignored invun on a roll of a 6?

Its eh. The problem is that 2++ rerollable doesn't do anything against 6s from Stomps and D weapons so you'll still take casualties.

And while s6 armorbane is decent against Imperial Knights, You're only wounding Wraithknights on a 6+ so you'll barely be doing any damage to it so you'll probably die before the WK.

The LR will probably get popped immediately if you're up against a wraithknight, then it can just casually jump around dodging your unit. If it does get into CC with you, the chance of remove-from-play stomps is decent. Then you won't always have the 2++ because eldar are great at denying powers as well. Plus you'd still need to worry about the squad getting gunned down before it reaches the knight, things like scatterbikes or warp spiders (both of which love melee only units).

I mean, it could work, but there's a lot up to strategy and chance there. How much would the crusaders/priests/pyker/LR cost all together? Would it be worth the points to just tie up a wraithknight, not kill it and move on to fight other units?

 CrownAxe wrote:
Its eh. The problem is that 2++ rerollable doesn't do anything against 6s from Stomps and D weapons so you'll still take casualties.

And while s6 armorbane is decent against Imperial Knights, You're only wounding Wraithknights on a 6+ so you'll barely be doing any damage to it so you'll probably die before the WK.

its not about wounding the wraithknight but rather tie it up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kingbobbito wrote:
The LR will probably get popped immediately if you're up against a wraithknight, then it can just casually jump around dodging your unit. If it does get into CC with you, the chance of remove-from-play stomps is decent. Then you won't always have the 2++ because eldar are great at denying powers as well. Plus you'd still need to worry about the squad getting gunned down before it reaches the knight, things like scatterbikes or warp spiders (both of which love melee only units).

I mean, it could work, but there's a lot up to strategy and chance there. How much would the crusaders/priests/pyker/LR cost all together? Would it be worth the points to just tie up a wraithknight, not kill it and move on to fight other units?

the cost is about 400 points for the land raider and the crusader unit but only 150 points ish will be used to tie up the wraithknight or imperial knight because the land raider would drive off shooting things after it has dropped off the crusaders

In addition to the whole 1 in 3 chance of simply having your guys flat out removed from play, no saves, every combat round, lets take a quick look at the cost of your proposed unit;

9x Crusaders, 1x Priest, Land raider

Now, even before upgrades, you're looking at 400 points, which is still more than not only a wraithknight, but also an imperial knight as well.

That's pretty much a hard fail right there for a unit that is effectively useless at almost anything else.

champagne_socialist wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Its eh. The problem is that 2++ rerollable doesn't do anything against 6s from Stomps and D weapons so you'll still take casualties.

And while s6 armorbane is decent against Imperial Knights, You're only wounding Wraithknights on a 6+ so you'll barely be doing any damage to it so you'll probably die before the WK.

its not about wounding the wraithknight but rather tie it up.

Which when the Land Raiders dies they won't be able to do because it moves twice as fast as you do

 Drasius wrote:
In addition to the whole 1 in 3 chance of simply having your guys flat out removed from play, no saves, every combat round, lets take a quick look at the cost of your proposed unit;

9x Crusaders, 1x Priest, Land raider

Now, even before upgrades, you're looking at 400 points, which is still more than not only a wraithknight, but also an imperial knight as well.

That's pretty much a hard fail right there for a unit that is effectively useless at almost anything else.

like I said the land raider wouldn't be tied up in combat tho.

Land Raiders aren't know for their shooting prowess. And honestly they aren't that durable against the eldar either.

champagne_socialist wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
In addition to the whole 1 in 3 chance of simply having your guys flat out removed from play, no saves, every combat round, lets take a quick look at the cost of your proposed unit;

9x Crusaders, 1x Priest, Land raider

Now, even before upgrades, you're looking at 400 points, which is still more than not only a wraithknight, but also an imperial knight as well.

That's pretty much a hard fail right there for a unit that is effectively useless at almost anything else.

like I said the land raider wouldn't be tied up in combat tho.

Correct, it would be busy being a smoking ruin turn 1, stranding your T3 guys with no ranged weapons and a 6" move in your DZ against an army where the slowest unit moves 12" a turn.

Good Job!

 Drasius wrote:
Correct, it would be busy being a smoking ruin turn 1, stranding your T3 guys with no ranged weapons and a 6" move in your DZ against an army where the slowest unit moves 12" a turn.

Good Job!

If for whatever reason your opponent does decide to shoot at this stranded squad, equal points of scatbikes will kill 3 or 4 a turn at 36 inch range, a unit that you will literally never get in combat with.

 Drasius wrote:

champagne_socialist wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
In addition to the whole 1 in 3 chance of simply having your guys flat out removed from play, no saves, every combat round, lets take a quick look at the cost of your proposed unit;

9x Crusaders, 1x Priest, Land raider

Now, even before upgrades, you're looking at 400 points, which is still more than not only a wraithknight, but also an imperial knight as well.

That's pretty much a hard fail right there for a unit that is effectively useless at almost anything else.

like I said the land raider wouldn't be tied up in combat tho.

Correct, it would be busy being a smoking ruin turn 1, stranding your T3 guys with no ranged weapons and a 6" move in your DZ against an army where the slowest unit moves 12" a turn.

Good Job!

Are land raiders really that bad? why are they so expensive in points if they are so easy to destroy?

champagne_socialist wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

champagne_socialist wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
In addition to the whole 1 in 3 chance of simply having your guys flat out removed from play, no saves, every combat round, lets take a quick look at the cost of your proposed unit;

9x Crusaders, 1x Priest, Land raider

Now, even before upgrades, you're looking at 400 points, which is still more than not only a wraithknight, but also an imperial knight as well.

That's pretty much a hard fail right there for a unit that is effectively useless at almost anything else.

like I said the land raider wouldn't be tied up in combat tho.

Correct, it would be busy being a smoking ruin turn 1, stranding your T3 guys with no ranged weapons and a 6" move in your DZ against an army where the slowest unit moves 12" a turn.

Good Job!

Are land raiders really that bad? why are they so expensive in points if they are so easy to destroy?

Because GW are bad at balancing units. I'm pretty sure they've been copy pasting the same Land Raider rules for 3 editions now.

 Drasius wrote:

champagne_socialist wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
In addition to the whole 1 in 3 chance of simply having your guys flat out removed from play, no saves, every combat round, lets take a quick look at the cost of your proposed unit;

9x Crusaders, 1x Priest, Land raider

Now, even before upgrades, you're looking at 400 points, which is still more than not only a wraithknight, but also an imperial knight as well.

That's pretty much a hard fail right there for a unit that is effectively useless at almost anything else.

like I said the land raider wouldn't be tied up in combat tho.

Correct, it would be busy being a smoking ruin turn 1, stranding your T3 guys with no ranged weapons and a 6" move in your DZ against an army where the slowest unit moves 12" a turn.

Good Job!

I don't think we can say a land raider would be blown up in turn 1. Every battle is different. There might be good LOS blocking scenery you can hide behind or get good cover saves. Psychic abilities to get a 4++ invun on the Land raider or psychic abilities to give it shrouded which if there is night fighting or any other cover will be a 2+ cover.

Up against an Imperial knight with the 2 shot battle cannon it needs a 6 to glance.

But like I said every battle is different so you cant just say 1st turn land raider is dead because no battle is an open ground with no cover and no night fighting etc etc




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrownAxe wrote:

champagne_socialist wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

champagne_socialist wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
In addition to the whole 1 in 3 chance of simply having your guys flat out removed from play, no saves, every combat round, lets take a quick look at the cost of your proposed unit;

9x Crusaders, 1x Priest, Land raider

Now, even before upgrades, you're looking at 400 points, which is still more than not only a wraithknight, but also an imperial knight as well.

That's pretty much a hard fail right there for a unit that is effectively useless at almost anything else.

like I said the land raider wouldn't be tied up in combat tho.

Correct, it would be busy being a smoking ruin turn 1, stranding your T3 guys with no ranged weapons and a 6" move in your DZ against an army where the slowest unit moves 12" a turn.

Good Job!

Are land raiders really that bad? why are they so expensive in points if they are so easy to destroy?

Because GW are bad at balancing units. I'm pretty sure they've been copy pasting the same Land Raider rules for 3 editions now.

I think based on the current meta land raiders should be worth about 150pts because armour 14 which was its big selling point a few years ago is not that big a deal in the current game. 2 lascannons and a heavy bolter is not that big a deal now as it was a few years ago either. The only good thing Land raiders have in this edition is its an assault vehicle but the game is weighted so heavily in favour of shooting that assaulting is not that big a deal at the moment. So my opinion a land raider should be about 150 points maybe 175

I'm not sure I'd even pay 150 for them.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not sure I'd even pay 150 for them.

I'd use them if only so my terminators can do something before I just pick them up off the table. As it stands right now it's cheaper to just run twice as many terminators and hope they don't all die.

 kingbobbito wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not sure I'd even pay 150 for them.

I'd use them if only so my terminators can do something before I just pick them up off the table. As it stands right now it's cheaper to just run twice as many terminators and hope they don't all die.

You'd still be paying more than 300 points to assault once and then die. It's STILL more expensive than WK.