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Kind of an awkward title, but the gist is this: How much 'life', for want of a better word, does a Dreadnought retain after being put into the casket. Often GW talk about Dreadnoughts experiencing everything in a dreamlike state, but I can't imagine this would be helpful in a combat situation where reflex and awareness are key to survival. Furthermore, prior to the Horus Heresy, I imagine that dreadnoughts were in regular use - so regular that I can't see them warranting being put back into stasis/sleep mode. In these cases, when a Dreadnought is 'woken', do they simply experience things as a regular space marine, albeit through electronic rather than organic sensors? For example, could a Dreadnought hold extended and flowing conversation with his fellow marines if he so wished? Would it be possible for a Dreadnought to simply act and live as a regular marine (Of course with major differences) in terms of day to day interaction if they desired to do so?

I'm going by purely the Horus heresy books here, which seem to be cannon right?

In at least one of these books I seem to remember Loken EDIT: Or it might of been Saul Travitz)seeking council from a Dreadnought. I can't remember the exact book but I believe Loken or Saul were questioning the 'morals' of their legion just as things started going bad. They had a full conversation and the dreadnought was aware and retained memories of being a battle brother.

I also remember that the same dreadnought dies on Isstvan III.

Interesting. I was aware that Dreadnoughts retain their former memories, but they're usually portrayed as having sort of Alzheimers - where they can clearly recall battles long ago, but can't remember who they stomped for breakfast. I'm wondering if this really is the case.

Based on Battle for the Fang they're perfectly normal but when they "wake up" it can take a while before it's all together and they can take a long time to wake up.

IIRC, the more the time passes, the more they become "distant" and have difficulties to wake up.
A "new" dreadnought would be like another astartes, I guess.
There are numerous examples of dreadnoughts giving councils to others marines.

Depends on how long they've been in that shell. Some Dreads are thousands of years old. Those guys have all kinds of Alzheimer's. Bjorn the Fell-Handed is noted, especially, for taking extremely long periods of time to "warm up" when he comes out of stasis, and spends most of his waking moments recalling the events of a past that is considered legendary, even mythical, by current, living Space Wolves.

As to agility and reaction times? One thing Dreads aren't is fast and nimble. That's why they are giant, armored boxes.

In "Know No Fear" - Justatrius is just recently interred into a Dreadnought chassis and he certainly remembers his former life. The book also goes into the "adjustment" that he has to suffer through that transition.

I imagine it depends on the age of the dreadnought. much like how an elderly man miay simply not be as sharp.

In the Night Lords series there is a dreadnought who def does not want to be woken up as he hates his new "life" and hates his fleshy brothers. But when he does they do listen to his advice and he does have unique opinions and motives. He still retains his NL-ness

In Betrayer, They have to awaken a bunch of Dreadnaughts to repel some invaders off Angron's flagship. I know the leader of said dreadnaughts in a contemptor and he still remembers back when they were the War Hounds and not the World Eaters. Often showing disappointment with the direction the Chapter has gone.

In his off time he tends to hang around the Ship's Captain and do mild conversation. He also seems to have some uncontrolled responses. For example, when he's uncomfortable or irritated, he spins his heavy bolter chains unintentionally.

In Fallen Angels, Brother Titus, a Dreadnought, is noted to have held normal conversations with Brother-Sergeant Kohl, and Interrogator-Chaplain Nemiel also has some good back-and-forths with him, as does a Techmarine whose name escapes me at the moment.

If you read Shield of Baal. Cassor the Damned, the death company dread is very cognisant for being a dread. He talks on a few occasions with Karlean.

One particular instance is when Karlean is speaking with Cassor and Cassor believes hes fighting on Terra but knows hes not on terra. For being a shorter story it is quite good.

 Psienesis wrote:

As to agility and reaction times? One thing Dreads aren't is fast and nimble. That's why they are giant, armored boxes.

In the Word Bears series (Dark Apostle etc) a dreadnought is depicted as both fast and nimble. It even manages to remove a melta bomb attached to it before it detonates (though that struck me as somewhat excessive).

For those of you who've read the Soul Drinkers books to completion... Dreads can definitely be aware of everything. For those who haven't, no spoilers today.

In Prospero Burns, the protagonist is a human who ends up in a period of stasis/cold sleep in the same area as the Dreadnought sarcophagi. For lack of a better word, the one Dread he talks to is grumpy and doesn't like being in stasis. He says that all you do is dream, but that all the dreams have been dreamt already. I get the impression they're super bored and spend most of their time effectively sleeping in between battles. Imagine sleeping all the time and only being woken up to people yelling "Get dressed! We have to leave now!". You'd be disoriented too!

Also, don't forget Space Wolves Bjorn.

Bjorn doesn't even remember what millennium it is.

Tancred endures!

in Betrayer (30k novel) there's an ancient world eaters dreadnought that can kinda play chess with the ship's captain. though is power hand makes that difficult to do.... as does being a world eater.

I always envision Dreadnoughts as being the doddery old grandads of the Space Marine Chapters. I'm not sure if a more recent precedent has been set, but it certainly used to be the case that a Dreadnought might go for years or even decades in hibernation, meaning that in addition to the business of warming up the machine and the consciousness therein, a Dreadnought would have to adapt to changes within the Chapter, loss of dear friends and developments in the wider Imperium. Imagine waking up from really heavy anaesthesia (induced coma is probably more accurate), and learning that Shrike is now Master of Shadows, the Unforgiven have marched on Fenris and a new Hive Fleet has entered the Galaxy. It's an excellent analogy for the plight of returning hobbyists.

As with everything, though, it depends on the Marine. Personality will out eventually, and simply being shut up in a metal box is not going to hold a Space Marine back too much.

I think the sainity of a dreadnaught has to do with two things,

1) age. Older dreadnaughts defininately have a hard time remembering things and coming to turns with current events vs. previous events. Keep in mind the HH dreadnaughts have only been around for a few hundred years max. 40K dreadnaughts have been around for thousands of years (bjorn has been around for literally 10,000 years)

2) Amount of time spent conscious. Dreadnaughts can't sleep. While space marines can stay awake for days at a time, putting one side of their brain in a partial sleep while the other is awake, Dreadnaughts can't really do that. So when the can't sleep it's hard to let the brain regenerate and chill. That's why most dreadnaughts are put in stasis. To let the dreadnaught brain chill out and sleep. A lot of Chaos dreadnaughts aren't allowed to be put in stasis so they're either possessed or straight out crazy.

 Spineyguy wrote:
Imagine waking up from really heavy anaesthesia (induced coma is probably more accurate), and learning that Shrike is now Master of Shadows, the Unforgiven have marched on Fenris and a new Hive Fleet has entered the Galaxy. It's an excellent analogy for the plight of returning hobbyists.

As someone who started playing in 3rd, stopped in 4th, and only recently returned in the last year, this makes a lot of sense to me.

Another factor is how were they Injured. Coming into 40k from the DoW games, the first looks into their character's that I got was from unit quotes and Thule. The basic dread seems fine, but Thule, even though he's fresh off the line, is already drowsy.

My explanation for this is that if the marine is in the dread for something "Norma" (losing his entire lower torso, for instance) his mind is fine, and thus when he gets over the morning sickness he's good to go. Thule was given uber-Tyranid poison, and forced into premature Stasis, so his mind is more degraded.

And of course, there are always exceptions, such as the Iron Warrior who was interred after the Heresy, but kept himself together and ended up leading an entire grand company. You'd have to be fairly awake to manage that, especially in the IW's. Also, I believe old fluff had the Iron Hands being led by a council, which could include Dreads.

Just wanted to respond that I think this thread is awesome.
Love all the reports of Dreadnought experiences.

Mail Lite wrote:I'm going by purely the Horus heresy books here, which seem to be cannon right?

In at least one of these books I seem to remember Loken EDIT: Or it might of been Saul Travitz)seeking council from a Dreadnought. I can't remember the exact book but I believe Loken or Saul were questioning the 'morals' of their legion just as things started going bad. They had a full conversation and the dreadnought was aware and retained memories of being a battle brother.

I also remember that the same dreadnought dies on Isstvan III.

Thanks for reminding me of this, I remember this and it was a really sad moment.
Was he the dreadnought that couldn't get into the cover during the bombing, so just accepted his fate... or something like that (How I remember it)?

Kriswall wrote:For those of you who've read the Soul Drinkers books to completion... Dreads can definitely be aware of everything. For those who haven't, no spoilers today.

In Prospero Burns, the protagonist is a human who ends up in a period of stasis/cold sleep in the same area as the Dreadnought sarcophagi. For lack of a better word, the one Dread he talks to is grumpy and doesn't like being in stasis. He says that all you do is dream, but that all the dreams have been dreamt already. I get the impression they're super bored and spend most of their time effectively sleeping in between battles. Imagine sleeping all the time and only being woken up to people yelling "Get dressed! We have to leave now!". You'd be disoriented too!

This is totally relate-able, must be like a Fireman getting woken up by a blaring siren to jump into uniform and speed to put out a fire... Over and over the same night.

 plonka2000 wrote:
Was he the dreadnought that couldn't get into the cover during the bombing, so just accepted his fate... or something like that (How I remember it)?

His name was Rylanor and the sad part was that, as a Contemptor, his sarcophagus is actually vacuum-sealed and so he would have survived the virus bombing... Except his chassis had taken a little damage in the fighting, too small to even slow him down but large enough to let the virus in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JustALittleOrkish wrote:
In the Night Lords series there is a dreadnought who def does not want to be woken up as he hates his new "life" and hates his fleshy brothers. But when he does they do listen to his advice and he does have unique opinions and motives. He still retains his NL-ness

That dreadnought is boss.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 plonka2000 wrote:
Was he the dreadnought that couldn't get into the cover during the bombing, so just accepted his fate... or something like that (How I remember it)?

His name was Rylanor and the sad part was that, as a Contemptor, his sarcophagus is actually vacuum-sealed and so he would have survived the virus bombing... Except his chassis had taken a little damage in the fighting, too small to even slow him down but large enough to let the virus in.

Yep, thats it. Thanks.
I was really sad when I originally read that.