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I'm thinking of building a trukk based ork army, similar to mad max plus it would work to get everyone to the enemy as fast as possible to engage in assault. But I hear that trukks are not too reliable, is it a good idea or not, if so what would be with it, if not what alternative would work

I've played trukks since 5th. At the moment they are highly underrated, but admittedly not amazing.

In maelstrom of war any MSU objective grabbing strategy comes with a base chance of winning, and trukkspam has a few advantages.

Everything is fast, everything can ram as AV14, and everything is obsec, that's nice.

Anything works good with orks as Long as there's enough of it.

the_scotsman wrote:
I've played trukks since 5th. At the moment they are highly underrated, but admittedly not amazing.

In maelstrom of war any MSU objective grabbing strategy comes with a base chance of winning, and trukkspam has a few advantages.

Everything is fast, everything can ram as AV14, and everything is obsec, that's nice.

How do trukks ram at AV14?

Trukk spam works a bit,but against the 7.5 codex's its been my experience that your going to get a lot of blown up trukkz and lots of dead boyz from the resulting explosions.

SemperMortis wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I've played trukks since 5th. At the moment they are highly underrated, but admittedly not amazing.

In maelstrom of war any MSU objective grabbing strategy comes with a base chance of winning, and trukkspam has a few advantages.

Everything is fast, everything can ram as AV14, and everything is obsec, that's nice.

How do trukks ram at AV14?

Trukk spam works a bit,but against the 7.5 codex's its been my experience that your going to get a lot of blown up trukkz and lots of dead boyz from the resulting explosions.

And don't forget more dead from mob rule

There is always hope that GW will rewrite mob rule with the FAQs...a faint, microscopic, hope...but hope, nonetheless.

But even with the current mob rule, trukk boyz can be strong against other fluffy armies. If you have enough of them.

Also..There seems to be a lot of trukks on ebay these days, I just picked up a couple for a (tiny) discount.

Mass trukk armies work great at lower point levels, say 1250 and under. But Once you get above that you start having some diminishing returns.

Although with the new formation out, you need to have 6 units of boyz, So might as well put them all in trukks and give all the trukks boarding planks. That way you will have a pretty good chance of charging your enemy on turn 1. Target saturation and full-speed balls-to-the-wall charging is the name of that game.

 Icculus wrote:
Mass trukk armies work great at lower point levels, say 1250 and under. But Once you get above that you start having some diminishing returns.

Although with the new formation out, you need to have 6 units of boyz, So might as well put them all in trukks and give all the trukks boarding planks. That way you will have a pretty good chance of charging your enemy on turn 1. Target saturation and full-speed balls-to-the-wall charging is the name of that game.

I don't know...if the Ork player goes first, he still can't assault more than 24 inches, even with planks, and that's with near-perfect rolling. So if your opponent deploys 1 inch back, it still impossible to charge, so the "benefit" is completely negated.

If the other player goes first, they can just blow up the trukks (which would have to be right on the line to try the charge.)

The decurion first turn charge "benefit" is worth far, far less than the loss of flexibility in list design. IMHO.

This the whole assault on turn 1 thing is a paperhammer / forum myth. No sane opponent will let you pull it off.

the_scotsman wrote:
[...] everything can ram as AV14, [...]

Do you ever use the trukks to ram?

Frankly the Trukk is the second best transport in the game, after the drop pod. It's crazy cheap, goes real fast, has tons of customization options, has a very high troop capacity, allows disembarking & assault, every embarked model can fire, comes with a free rokkit, get a free cover save if they move fast (they will), and the ramshackle special rule. The only drawbacks are AV10 and +1 on the pen table.

For 30 points that's a heck of a deal.

The weakness of the Trukk is the passengers it carries. Boyz hate being in exploding vehicles with their 6+ armor (or overpriced 4+ upgrade). This is why the MANz missile is so good because Meganobz with their 2+ armor don't give a zog about the trukk exploding... as long as the trukk actually got to move. If Space Marines had Trukks then you might see close combat marines and even full Black Templar style lists being viable.

It helps to have a battlewagon or two to draw the AP 1/2 fire.

Also:

dannydakka wrote:
Anything works good with orks as Long as there's enough of it.

As far as the units actually in trukks...

-'eavy armor at least if possible, if not possible, max 5 guys. The situation you really want to avoid is a TON of dudes getting nuked with 6+ armor when the trukk explodes. Optimum situation is a manz missile: 2+ armor, 2 wounds, zero feths given. 'Eavy boyz are also OK, it's how I equip my boyz, but I tend to lean towards shootas these days because boyz are becoming less capable of actually hacking it in assault these days. In terms of "bully assault", i.e, assaulting stuff that doesn't want to be, I'd almost always want shootas, because theyr'e more likely to get to be stuck in for a turn and get out of combat on the enemy phase. Or, I would want a manz missile, who can threaten vehicles far better than a single (expensive) klaw nob.

For the price of a klaw nob w/pole (40 pts total) I can 'eavy armor an entire mob of shootas. Given that nobz now frequently require additional babysitting in the form of 15pt meks...I don't think they have a place outside a huge mob that NEEDS to be impossible to stall for 2 rounds by a hard target. So my trukk boyz are 10 man, 'eavy armor, shootas, and my melee threats are always manz bombs for the most part. I beat death stars by throwing them near infinite amounts of chaff. An 800 point squad of daemons or necrons or whatever that I can force to chew through nothing but 50 point squads and 30 point trukks every turn is effectively worthless, and I can bully the rest of the list.

It would (could) look fantastic on the table with a mix of different looted trukks, all orked up, and it would be a boatload of fun to mod it all up. I see no reason not to.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
Mass trukk armies work great at lower point levels, say 1250 and under. But Once you get above that you start having some diminishing returns.

Although with the new formation out, you need to have 6 units of boyz, So might as well put them all in trukks and give all the trukks boarding planks. That way you will have a pretty good chance of charging your enemy on turn 1. Target saturation and full-speed balls-to-the-wall charging is the name of that game.

I don't know...if the Ork player goes first, he still can't assault more than 24 inches, even with planks, and that's with near-perfect rolling. So if your opponent deploys 1 inch back, it still impossible to charge, so the "benefit" is completely negated.

If the other player goes first, they can just blow up the trukks (which would have to be right on the line to try the charge.)

The decurion first turn charge "benefit" is worth far, far less than the loss of flexibility in list design. IMHO.

You most assuredly can assault more than 24". And yes it does require some good rolling so it isn't something that can be counted on. But if you go 2nd and they move out of their starting zone at all, then you can charge.
trukk moves = 6"
Disembark = 6"
Run move (this is where you need luck) = 2+
Charge with 'ere we go = 8+
Boarding Plank = 2"
6+6+2+8+2=24

And I wouldn't call a 2+ and an 8+ "near-perfect rolling".
So if you have 6 trukks, the odds of you getting 3 to charge is actually pretty good, even if 3 do fail. If you go second, you are likely to have several of your trukks blown up anyway, at least this way you will still have empty trukks which can zip around to hold objectives.

But this does suppose that your enemy puts something right at their edge of the deployment zone. If they back it up at all then you will probably just want to flatout the trukks and sit on their deployment zone clogging up space. Or drive the trukks in to cover.

The turn 1 charge threat is exactly that, a threat. It forces your opponent a vital couple of inches back, which means any hard hitting 24" range weapons won't get to beat on you turn 1 if you don't get first turn.

I've got a trukk-heavy force, and its been doing reasonably well for me. That being said, I'm not playing in super competitive games or anything. I think a trukk and warbuggy-based army could do really well in maelstrom missions, and even in other missions having that much mobility is handy.

 slip wrote:
Frankly the Trukk is the second best transport in the game, after the drop pod. It's crazy cheap, goes real fast, has tons of customization options, has a very high troop capacity, allows disembarking & assault, every embarked model can fire, comes with a free rokkit, get a free cover save if they move fast (they will), and the ramshackle special rule. The only drawbacks are AV10 and +1 on the pen table.

For 30 points that's a heck of a deal.

False in many aspects.

1: The Trukk does not have "Tons of Customization options" they have lots of options, but most are absolutely USELESS. Stickbomb throwers, Red Paint and those things you never see. The only options a trukk ever takes is a Ram and occasionally boarding planks....thats it.

2: The trukk does have a HIGH troop capacity for most armies, For orks? not so much. Max SM Squad = 10, Rhino Capacity = 10 . Max Ork Squad = 30, Trukk Capacity = 12. Not so good.

3: The Free rokkit is still a BS2 rokkit meaning in a 6 turn game it should hit 2 times.

4: Trukkz do not get a "Free Cover Save" your thinking of bikes, The trukks do not benefit from this rule

5: Ramshackle got NERFED, it used to be a fun rule and helped the orks out sometimes, now it just sucks. on a 6+ a Pen gets turned into a Glance.

6: The only drawbacks are that these things explode to a stiff breeze and when they do they kill most of the boyz inside unless they are Meganob.

Sorry I just couldn't let that stand. Trukkz are certainly not the "Second Best" anything in the game. They are to easy to blow up, they are to expensive for what they do.

A SM Drop Pod is an open topped vehicle that allows you to deep strike, has better armor and BS4 and I believe its not anymore expensive then a Trukk with a ram. A Rhino is cheaper and has better armor as well as BS4, downside is that it doesn't allow you to assault from it. But then again if you made a rhino open topped SM players would complain that it wasn't survivable enough.

 oldzoggy wrote:
This the whole assault on turn 1 thing is a paperhammer / forum myth. No sane opponent will let you pull it off.

Orks no, Wulfen and thier 40+ charge range is another story. Skyhammer and ravenguard and thier deepstrike turn 1 assault is also another story. You really can't completely prevent those types of turn 1 assaults.

@Gungo: Care to share with the class how a wulfen has a 40" Charge range?

Because last I checked, 6"+D6"+2d6", with any number of rerolls will never equal 40".

But yeah. Trukks are not the best transports in the game. They're not even the best fast open topped assault transports in the game.

Trukks have no jink. Every other open topped assault transport in the game can jink (Landspeeder Storm, Venom, Raider, Starweaver). That's half the durability, right off the bat.

Trukks are fast, but they are not skimmers, Skimmers move faster.

Trukk upgrades are pure trash except for ram. Compare to what a Raider can take - an actually threatening anti tank weapon at BS4, an upgrade to twin-link the weapons of all the passengers inside, an upgrade to have 3+ jink saves... that's not even talking about the LS Storm, which is FAR better.

Trukks are cheap. That should not ever be confused for "good."

the_scotsman wrote:
@Gungo: Care to share with the class how a wulfen has a 40" Charge range?

Because last I checked, 6"+D6"+2d6", with any number of rerolls will never equal 40".

But yeah. Trukks are not the best transports in the game. They're not even the best fast open topped assault transports in the game.

Trukks have no jink. Every other open topped assault transport in the game can jink (Landspeeder Storm, Venom, Raider, Starweaver). That's half the durability, right off the bat.

Trukks are fast, but they are not skimmers, Skimmers move faster.

Trukk upgrades are pure trash except for ram. Compare to what a Raider can take - an actually threatening anti tank weapon at BS4, an upgrade to twin-link the weapons of all the passengers inside, an upgrade to have 3+ jink saves... that's not even talking about the LS Storm, which is FAR better.

Trukks are cheap. That should not ever be confused for "good."

and even then I would say they aren't that cheap. It has more to do with the fact that so much in the Ork codex is over priced that makes them appear cheap. 50pts for a killa kan? really?

Wulfin formation giving the 7+ hunt roll to thunder wolves in the starter box formation getting to move 12", move 12" again, run D6, and then charge 2d6 for a max of 42"

If you get the +3 to movement roll for hunt then you can move 12+3, run D6+3, and charge 2d6+3 inches for a max of 39".

Wulfin themselves aren't able to go that fast but they can sling shot TWC like none other.

SemperMortis wrote:
A SM Drop Pod is an open topped vehicle that allows you to deep strike, has better armor and BS4 and I believe its not anymore expensive then a Trukk with a ram. A Rhino is cheaper and has better armor as well as BS4, downside is that it doesn't allow you to assault from it. But then again if you made a rhino open topped SM players would complain that it wasn't survivable enough.

HE-HE-HEEEEELLS NO.

Assaulting from it is like 90% of the points of the Trukk. That's why you get it. I would rip the top off of my Rhinos if I got assault from them! Well, I would have when I played marines.

Yeah, it blows up to damn near anything, and yeah, maybe the Orks inside should take a slightly lesser hit from that, but god damn are you underselling assaulting from a vehicle. Most everyone else pays 200+ points for that luxury, if they even have it available other than from allies.

Drop pods are wildly different because A) they are both much better and much worse at bringing their payload in (can get it in a perfect spot in round 1 or can get it in round 5 if you're unlucky.) but most importantly, B) you can't charge from them, so whenever you drop pod anywhere, you sit your ass down and see if you can whether a round of shooting, or you get charged on instead of charging. As such, its most common use in armies that aren't relying entirely on it is to deploy a group of surgical shooters that take out a high prio target. So it doesn't even compare to Trukks.

It has problems, absolutely. I feel like there should be a rule that says a group of Orks can sit spread out in several trukks, so long as those trukks then stay within 3 inches of eachother so they can holler and hoot together. If one blows up or is immobilised, that portion of the group is now its own separate group, with only the people that survived the explosion. Whatever, GW rules are bad for everyone.

Second best vehicle? Maybe not. But I would have a hard time finding the marine player that wouldn't trade open topped on Rhinos for charge from them.

 Purifier wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
A SM Drop Pod is an open topped vehicle that allows you to deep strike, has better armor and BS4 and I believe its not anymore expensive then a Trukk with a ram. A Rhino is cheaper and has better armor as well as BS4, downside is that it doesn't allow you to assault from it. But then again if you made a rhino open topped SM players would complain that it wasn't survivable enough.

HE-HE-HEEEEELLS NO.

Assaulting from it is like 90% of the points of the Trukk. That's why you get it. I would rip the top off of my Rhinos if I got assault from them! Well, I would have when I played marines.

Yeah, it blows up to damn near anything, and yeah, maybe the Orks inside should take a slightly lesser hit from that, but god damn are you underselling assaulting from a vehicle. Most everyone else pays 200+ points for that luxury, if they even have it available other than from allies.

Drop pods are wildly different because A) they are both much better and much worse at bringing their payload in (can get it in a perfect spot in round 1 or can get it in round 5 if you're unlucky.) but most importantly, B) you can't charge from them, so whenever you drop pod anywhere, you sit your ass down and see if you can whether a round of shooting, or you get charged on instead of charging. As such, its most common use in armies that aren't relying entirely on it is to deploy a group of surgical shooters that take out a high prio target. So it doesn't even compare to Trukks.

It has problems, absolutely. I feel like there should be a rule that says a group of Orks can sit spread out in several trukks, so long as those trukks then stay within 3 inches of eachother so they can holler and hoot together. If one blows up or is immobilised, that portion of the group is now its own separate group, with only the people that survived the explosion. Whatever, GW rules are bad for everyone.

Second best vehicle? Maybe not. But I would have a hard time finding the marine player that wouldn't trade open topped on Rhinos for charge from them.

True, but Rhinos are AV11 all around and if you jacked up the points the way your saying you have to for Trukkz

Assaulting from it is like 90% of the points of the Trukk

So that means that you would have to dramatically increase the cost of a rhino. Conversely your comparing SM's with 3+ armor save for what 12pts? whatever they are? for Ork Boyz who cost 6pts each and in the resulting explosion lose about 50% of their size.

SM's would love an open topped transport but they would never get one that is AV10,can't jink, has no invul save, and when it did explode, killed 5 out of the 10 marines inside.

No, they'd get one with two solid heavy weapons, that could jink, can also outflank, and was also a fast skimmer.

You know.

If space marines were to have something like an open topped transport.

Some kind of land speeder variant or something.

SemperMortis wrote:
SM's would love an open topped transport but they would never get one that is AV10,can't jink, has no invul save, and when it did explode, killed 5 out of the 10 marines inside.

You were specifically saying that SM would whine if they got Open Topped on Rhino. That was the full argument. That was what I was replying to. Can we agree that it was not a very smart argument and that it was, in fact, flat out wrong?

As to the rest, you are aware that Rhinos can't jink and have no invuln, right?
Second, an AV11 skimmer transport with an invuln save you can assault out of, which is the most bare bone I can make it for your argument to work, would never cost 30 points. Also, doesn't exist.

Would you feel better if you got an AV 11 closed top transport that can carry 30 models but you can't charge out of it for ~80 points? Since that would pretty much be the scaling of your current into an Ork sized Rhino.

Theme wise you should mix in bikes and Warbuggies and Battle Wagons and convert them so they look all Mad Max Fury Road. You HAVE to put an orc playing a guitar on the front of a Battle Wagon. I'll let the others debate on how effective it will be, but wow will your army look cool.

The Battlewagon with the guitar playing Ork on the front should act as a tank with a KFF mounted on it. Anyone within earshot of the music gets the Invuln save.

 Purifier wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
SM's would love an open topped transport but they would never get one that is AV10,can't jink, has no invul save, and when it did explode, killed 5 out of the 10 marines inside.

You were specifically saying that SM would whine if they got Open Topped on Rhino. That was the full argument. That was what I was replying to. Can we agree that it was not a very smart argument and that it was, in fact, flat out wrong?

As to the rest, you are aware that Rhinos can't jink and have no invuln, right?
Second, an AV11 skimmer transport with an invuln save you can assault out of, which is the most bare bone I can make it for your argument to work, would never cost 30 points. Also, doesn't exist.

Would you feel better if you got an AV 11 closed top transport that can carry 30 models but you can't charge out of it for ~80 points? Since that would pretty much be the scaling of your current into an Ork sized Rhino.

Actually I said they would whine that it wasn't survivable enough. specifically

A SM Drop Pod is an open topped vehicle that allows you to deep strike, has better armor and BS4 and I believe its not anymore expensive then a Trukk with a ram. A Rhino is cheaper and has better armor as well as BS4, downside is that it doesn't allow you to assault from it. But then again if you made a rhino open topped SM players would complain that it wasn't survivable enough.

I am very well aware that rhinos don't have JInk or an invul, (they do have self repair though) And you didn't take the bare minimum in your little example, the DE have the Venom and the raider which are both open topped transports with Jink or an Invul, both are more expensive then the Trukk but at the same time both are multiple times better. Both can field significantly more dakka then the Trukk and both can survive with just jink, without upgrades such as flickerfields.

So for about double the price of a Trukk with a Ram you can field an anti-infantry or an anti-vehicle open topped transport, ohh and did I mention that its a skimmer so its fastr and comes standard with jink? I don't know about you but I know which one I would take.

As far as your comment about orks getting an AV11 closed top transport, no I would not like it, why? because almost the entire Ork codex is geared towards assault. You would think that in an army that was build around assault we would have better Open Topped transports or Closed top that some how got assault vehicle special rules. The original point I was making was that Trukkz are utter garbage and nowhere near 2nd best or 3rd best or even 4th best in anyway.

I will spell this one out. Would SM's like to get an open topped assault vehicle for 30points that was AV10, couldn't jink, no invul upgrade and if/when it exploded caused 50% casualties to the guys inside? Even though the trukk exploding doesn't negate my Orks t-shirts it pretty much does because 6+ means i still lose about 1/2 my unit on average.

To answer my own question, no, SM players would never use that kind of a vehicle because its to chancy for them, they would rather use Drop pods to get them where they are going and sustain the withering barrage that comes afterwards because SM's are SHOOTY not assaulty.