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More news of gamers being terrible

Read the comments if you need more proof

 CorporateLogo wrote:
More news of gamers being terrible

Read the comments if you need more proof

Some people now days. The part I find funny is back in the day, buried in the magic rings table of the second edition dungeon masters guide is a ring that once you put it on permanently changes your sex. Now that I think about it, that was probably one of the many issues christians had with the game

 CorporateLogo wrote:
More news of gamers being terrible

Read the comments if you need more proof

Oh my, so much delicious butthurt. If one can't handle a world in which there is a girl that used to be a guy, then perhaps high fantasy isn't for you.

Couldn't care what they want out of life as long as they aren't hurting anybody. Not my place to get in the way of that. Long as they don't get in the way of my lifestyle it's all cool.

Anyway if you're willing to post an article with a bit of evidence perhaps you'd consider that they may have left some out. Evidence that it probably is some gamers saying the worse stuff and others not-so-much. I'll give it a proper look later but this is something that should be seen in the game as it's played. Once again find it surprising all people playing a game would be extreme for no reason or perhaps this is a very small sample only showing criticism that proves the article's point more.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 CorporateLogo wrote:
More news of gamers being terrible

Read the comments if you need more proof

Some people now days. The part I find funny is back in the day, buried in the magic rings table of the second edition dungeon masters guide is a ring that once you put it on permanently changes your sex. Now that I think about it, that was probably one of the many issues christians had with the game

It was a belt, not a ring.

Just checked through the Steam reviews of various players. That article writer is a lying pile of crap. Read the Steam Reviews you find yourself. They're just covering their ***es for a game they ruined.

Oh btw I read one of the comments myself in this stories own comment section. This is one by a somebody that identifies as a gay man.

------




Riddles > Paul Tamburro • 11 minutes ago





Hi, my names Robert. I'm a cis gay male. I've been gay for most of my life. I found out my true sexuality at a young age which was really a slow build up of realizations. I've had a couple of sexual relationships in my later years with a number of men, most who were bi. My mother is largely accepting of my sexuality while my father as far as I can tell doesn't care either way. Throughout my life I've had some instances of harassment though thankfully nothing major.

Now that we've got my sexuality out of the way thanks for asking I can talk about the stuff you are interested in.

People don't like it when they are being preached to and using a LGBTQ character as a token for the sake of telling you about their sexuality is just that. Especially when said character is so one dimensional that their sexuality is the most important part about them.

If we want LGBTQ people to be seen as normal then they have to be treated as normal. That means no token characters. If I become known as "the gay guy" then I know either I've failed in introducing myself or the people that label me as such are the sort that care about my sexuality more than me as a person.


------

So there you have it. A gay person wants to be seen like everybody else rather than to have their sexual preferences stated constantly. It's almost like they have a personality besides being their gender, race, religion or sexual preferences. I mean what kind of crazy world is this. *rolls eyes*

I am thirteen years old and in a game store for the first time. I examine their selection of dice and take them to the counter to pay.

“How old are you?” asks the balding, middle-aged man behind the counter.

“Thirteen.”

“Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed!” he chuckles in glee. The Warhammer 40K gamers at the table behind him take up the refrain. “Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed! Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed!”

I run.

This HAS to be fake.

 skyth wrote:
It was a belt, not a ring.

It was also in the Baldur's Gate games, if memory serves.

My god, Siege of Dragonspear getting hammered on GOG. 2 stars out of 5 right now

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Just checked through the Steam reviews of various players. That article writer is a lying pile of crap. Read the Steam Reviews you find yourself. They're just covering their ***es for a game they ruined.

So there you have it. A gay person wants to be seen like everybody else rather than to have their sexual preferences stated constantly. It's almost like they have a personality besides being their gender, race, religion or sexual preferences. I mean what kind of crazy world is this. *rolls eyes*

I'm sorry any kind of inclusivity/repsresentation ruins a game for you

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


Hi, my names Robert. I'm a cis gay male.

I'm confused now, I thought Cis was supposed to be the opposite of gay, ie straight?

griddle, ring, I knew it was something, not to shabby even recalling that much from so long ago

But thinking back on BG2, now I'm even more amused by the outrage towards this new character. When minsc in the very first part revealed he smuggled his pet rat boo into the jail, by leading us to believe it was hidden in his arse

apparently playing hide the gerbil is ok, but a trans guy goes to far. If that's his only contribution to the party, than that is pretty lame.

Nah, cis means that you were a born the same sex you identify with. Just sounds like having a name for the sake of having a name to me.


To me, if the most interesting about you if you sexual/gender orientation, then I don't care because your obviously a very boring person.

 CorporateLogo wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Just checked through the Steam reviews of various players. That article writer is a lying pile of crap. Read the Steam Reviews you find yourself. They're just covering their ***es for a game they ruined.

So there you have it. A gay person wants to be seen like everybody else rather than to have their sexual preferences stated constantly. It's almost like they have a personality besides being their gender, race, religion or sexual preferences. I mean what kind of crazy world is this. *rolls eyes*

I'm sorry any kind of inclusivity/repsresentation ruins a game for you

He was being sarcastic, and no representation doesn't ruin games for me, as long as it isn't shoehorned and cringy. Which most of the time it is and it is really bad writing on the writing writers part.

 CorporateLogo wrote:
More news of gamers being terrible

Read the comments if you need more proof

I am not overtly opposed to transgender/sexual people (though my track record would like to say the contrary), but I felt that that dialogue was shoehorned in and didn't help progress anything. Did the character need to go out of her way to say "I was a boy once?"

You know the funny thing about all this?

In I think it was my 2nd 'Dragon Age: Origins' playthrough I went for romancing zevran as one of the romances my main character had. I tried for 3 at a time but one wrong dialog option meant Alistair didn't like me. I found him somewhat annoying anyway. Seriously how could you not love the Antonio banderas elf that is good looking, an assassin and generally pretty cool. Probably about as trustworthy as a Skaven in warhammer fantasy but he was an interesting character. There's even background on him. I might be wrong but I think he was more Bi than Gay. Of course in that game it was just an option and it's not like everybody was gay. A few options are fine and as long as the character has more to them than being an absolute stereotype.

What's more I feel I need to disclose this with you guys. Though I am not trans, gay, female or of a different race I do have Aspbergers and to an extent I know people with mental disabilities. I know from personal experience the things people hate most are stating your mental illness/disability all the time, imagining it defines all of what you are (if that's your only defining feature you have no depth as a person) and treating you like someone would treat a child (babying you and taking light of your opinions). I actually prefer people that treat me like crap as long as they treat me as an adult and don't define me by my mental disability. In fact I'd rather be defined by my personality, what I'm good at, what I'm bad at and what I like to do. In fact I hate being around too many people with Aspbergers because we're all socially awkward and annoying together. It brings out flavor to have diversity of people sometimes.

Now I understand gay, non-white, female or other characters may need characters but to put them on a pedestal with a loudspeaker announcing their difference to others does the exact opposite of helping them to feel equal and like everybody else.

Also as somebody that is atheist/agnostic I feel no need to crap on religious people. They have their beliefs and I have mine. As long as they don't push their religion on me i'll will respect them and will leave them alone as well (or i'll try to).

Not only that but as far as playing the blame game on people that have harmed me in the past as I said. Though it's a particular person that has hurt me in each case instead of one person in an entire group that has harmed me (which is really unfair to said group). I at the end of the day allow me to keep myself down. That is my fault and mine alone to wallow in my own self-pity for so long. However I realize it and don't blame a whole group for it.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Nah, cis means that you were a born the same sex you identify with. Just sounds like having a name for the sake of having a name to me.


To me, if the most interesting about you if you sexual/gender orientation, then I don't care because your obviously a very boring person.

Well, the regressive leftists consider the more reasonable leftists to be just as much the enemy as the right. What was the "New Left" in the 1960's is now the "Old Left". That includes gay men (and lesbians who don't toe the neo-progressive, post-modernist party line) who happen to be white or asian. So, they had to come up with a new slur. "Cis-Gendered Scum" was as good as any, I suppose.

 CorporateLogo wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Just checked through the Steam reviews of various players. That article writer is a lying pile of crap. Read the Steam Reviews you find yourself. They're just covering their ***es for a game they ruined.

So there you have it. A gay person wants to be seen like everybody else rather than to have their sexual preferences stated constantly. It's almost like they have a personality besides being their gender, race, religion or sexual preferences. I mean what kind of crazy world is this. *rolls eyes*

I'm sorry any kind of inclusivity/repsresentation ruins a game for you

You've missed his point. A token is not inclusiveness/representation.

The volume of bad gak that that the linked article claimed made me dubious at first, but then I remembered the FLGS horror stories threat someone else cited above- ButteryCommisar's comments were taken as absurd etc. but believed. Some people have bad luck etc. Also, I hadn't really seen any sexism in gaming stores I frequented (so had really thought of it as a thing of the dark past) until I moved to a new city and a new gaming store, where my (also gamer) wife got treated like some sort of idiot, so I've learned to hesitate on calling things I haven't seen unbelievable.

I disagree with the term "terrorism" that she used- I don't believe it falls under the category of coercion, but it's clearly harassment, and it's frankly an extremely small portion of the population that will lie about harassment etc.

I'm also a little confused about the Wyrd thing- isn't that a local gaming problem? Did I misunderstand something?

Also, for all those of you who're attacking "sjw"s, just, IDK, just think for a second about the fact that you're using the idea of justice in a pejorative term- I'm not saying that everyone who claims to be seeking justice is right, but, still.

@spiralingcadaver: I honestly just haven't seen it. I've never seen it come anywhere even remotely close to what the article claimed. I just have a hard time believing it unless this was like the 70's or 80's or earlier or if she moved to the middle east or asia for some odd reason perhaps. Far as I've seen except for pervy dudes from time to time I don't think gamer girls have it much different esp. in real life where most guys don't care unless they're attractive anyway. Also let's be honest here if any person is attractive any person attracted to the attractive person's respective gender will pretty much always go after them (barring significant others in some cases).

Also on the subject of the feminists let's also be honest about this. How many people attack just women or just black people or just one group? If somebody is a jerk to somebody then usually they'll be a jerk to others. However if a bunch of people are being a jerk to somebody and they find themselves the only target then chances are the issue lies with them and something they probably haven't told everybody else. Perhaps said person offended them in a way the person didn't notice or left out in an attempt to make themselves out to be the good guy in their story. I mean we all like to consider ourselves a protagonist in each of our stories and consider ourselves like some sort of hero that we can cheer for a bit. I mean after all we can control what we do and follow our moral codes more easily and anybody outside of our personal moral code may seem immoral while we often like those that are most like ourselves.

As far as the feminists go I think often times they jump to conclusions. For an example look at that video of a woman walking around New York. I realize it's old but when the opposing side stated an attractive man walking through new York suddenly he got exactly the same type of attention right? In the end it wasn't her being female so much as being attractive that made guys try to talk to her and honestly if you have to walk into a bad neighborhood where crime is probably more common just to prove people in a bad neighborhood are likely to make vulnerable people feel uncomfortable then that's kind of sad.

-----

Honestly I just don't understand. Women in the West have it pretty freaking great. What more rights do you exactly need anyway? You want more characters in games or something and less skimpy armor? Far as jobs go as I said in my family all the women in their 20's and 30's are doing fairly well and in many cases better than their male peers. My half nephew's fiancée is a lawyer for god's sake.

If there's any sort of gender divide at all then I just can't see it. Wherever I look women are doing fantastic and they still get to enjoy whatever they like. I mean I'm pretty sure if a war were to occur they wouldn't even be thrown into it like the guys would be (girls might get more choice) though i'll probably get crap from people for saying it.

flaming, that's pretty reasonable.

One thing, though- regarding "I just can't see it", that's unfortunately a lot of the issue. I grew up in a super-de-duper progressive area and in a fairly sheltered environment, so I didn't really see it, either. But then I moved other places and interacted with more people.

I'm not white. Actually, I'm half-white, half-Japanese. Which is a mix that makes me look hispanic. There are a lot of places where people treat me like trash because of it. For a while, I thought it was just they were jerks, but then I went to some of the same places with my white friends, and, well, people were less suspicious of me and treat me better since I'm not some random mexican who's going to steal their hardware. Another of my friends is something like 1/8 cherokee, which is enough to make him look middle-eastern, and he's sometimes socially treated like gak and targeted by basically any security because of that.

I have a family member who's transgender, who's treated fine in my generation, but treated as a source of anywhere from confusion to outright suspicion by the next-older generation.

Women my age who are my friends/family have variously had cat calls, to oblivious harassment at work, to a fair amount of very physical violence done to them.

Not seeing the problem is entirely possible that it's because you're not the object of said discrimination. And this can become all sorts of divisive, since it means that straight white guys get upset when someone calls them out on not having experienced some of this stuff, but, well, they haven't. Being part of the group that's traditionally been in power means all sorts of things, and there's no need to attack someone over it or feel guilty about it or anything, but it's also worth acknowledging that one's race and sex do affect how people treat you, and that just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Regarding equality, (growing towards) workplace equality is nice, and yes, women have it better now than they've probably ever had it any time or place before now, but there's still a lot more before I'd say I've seen a culture that's actually egalitarian.



edit- flaming, reading your earlier post more closely, I feel like I get more where you're coming from. There are definite problems with a lot of how people handle their feeling discriminated against. Attacking whole groups in response to being attacked due to discrimination is hypocritical, and I've definitely known people who define themselves by their difference, which isn't the best approach, but lots of people define their lives by some aspect (gaming, perhaps?) and it's just a particularly noticeable one when reacting against something, like in the case of groups that feel discriminated. I don't believe in going on the offensive as a way to act, nor do I find it personally interesting to define myself by a single characteristic.

And regarding equality, I think you're conflating equality with homogeneity. Like I said above, some like to turn what is discriminatory into something they claim for themselves. Also, I believe that treating everyone as the same is ignoring, well, everything that makes them different, which is just as problematic as judging them purely on those differences.

(edited again for typos)

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Not seeing the problem is entirely possible that it's because you're not the object of said discrimination. And this can become all sorts of divisive, since it means that straight white guys get upset when someone calls them out on not having experienced some of this stuff, but, well, they haven't. Being part of the group that's traditionally been in power means all sorts of things, and there's no need to attack someone over it or feel guilty about it or anything, but it's also worth acknowledging that one's race and sex do affect how people treat you, and that just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Hmm. A good point. I'm white enough in my predominantly white country that no one treats me differently for that, but I've had a (very) few bad encounters due to my native language being not Finnish. If I was Romani, or Sami, or looked like an immigrant (Vietnamese, Thai, African) I might meet more prejudice. The Vietnamese aren't really seen as suspicious anymore, but Thai women coming here to marry a native are sometimes treated badly. And Africans, well, even other African immigrants don't like the Somali we have here.

 LordofHats wrote:
You know who else filed away elves and dragons? SAURON! Obviously you support the construction of ominously named monolithic structures, and spreading darkness across the land

Well I'm opposed to his monolithic structure plan, but it will be a job creator, and I do support his elf killing policy...

 sebster wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
You know who else filed away elves and dragons? SAURON! Obviously you support the construction of ominously named monolithic structures, and spreading darkness across the land

Well I'm opposed to his monolithic structure plan, but it will be a job creator, and I do support his elf killing policy...

Well I think everybody hates elves even other elves since they do basically hate themselves ;P.

@spiralingcadaver: Holy crap! Are you going to tell me 2 people with opposing views are going to get along in the Off-topic forum? This is cause for celebration. Get out the booze, drugs and prostitutes for everyone. This is a great day indeed!

I have friends that are somewhat sympathetic to some of the calmer feminists that are more reasonable about all of this.

While I can be sympathetic if people are giving you a hard time for your race or what race they think you are I'm almost certain those people are fairly awful people in the first place. I don't condone their behavior but I find in the younger generations most of that behavior is stamped out far as I've seen. I don't hate my older family as much anymore. They are a product of their times much as we are a product of everything that came to the point we are at today. Some people don't change too much from where they were at when they were young.

Personally I don't really mind what a person chooses for their lifestyle as long as it works for them and hurts nobody. A woman can choose to raise kids instead of work and be in the kitchen or work a full time job while her husband (or perhaps wife) is doing similar or working in the kitchen. I really don't care what gay couples do with their lives. It seriously doesn't effect me.

I want you to fully understand I'm about Freedom. It means a lot to me in the way I imagine it should mean. It means choosing your lifestyle and being able to live that lifestyle to the utmost happiness you can. Possibly in a way I think Americans have forgotten.

In the case of feminists or the PC crowd I believe some are neutering uncomfortable thoughts. I want you to understand I once saw a diorama in 'cool mini or not' about a female eldar with her shirt ripped off in a scene that depicted guardsmen hovering around her with one unbuckling his pants and getting ready to rape her. While this image disgusted me and I hated it I would not prevent others from looking at it if they wanted to. Hopefully more the emotions it evokes are what's seen as important though about the brutality of war at times rather than somebody's sick rape fantasy. I will say the eldar lady was quite attractive and had it been more in a pervy fan fiction form (with the sex being consensual) I'd have enjoyed it more (then again 'love can bloom' is probably a good example of awful eldar to human pervy fan fiction) but then I'm a pervert . I don't find that something I should be ashamed of though. Nothing wrong with people wanting to have sex with each other. It's when one group doesn't want it that it becomes bad.

I don't feel I should be sorry for making an offensive joke if the intent is just to tease others playfully. I would get into the specifics but that might take a while. I still believe death and rape shouldn't be joked about mostly if it's based on an actual event. If somebody dies just don't joke about it. That's poor form. In the case of making fun of groups it's not so bad as you don't put a particular person on the spot and make it personal. In that case it's usually some broad generalization and honestly if you can't laugh at yourself you have a real problem with how you see yourself. If the teasing is more focused on a person it has to be seen that it is well received by the person in question. I don't care if it offends a hundred million people. That teasing is only between the person that teased and the person that was the object of being teased. If the teasing isn't well received by the person being teased an apology is probably needed unless the person needs to be taken down a notch. Perhaps they're acting out and being a bad guy and need to be knocked down a peg. A good example would be making fun of people that do terrible things like Putin and Kim Jong Il or Un or people that are being hypocrites. Also as far as teasing goes I tend to do it to my friends and they tease me back. If only one person is doing the teasing and the other person is just looking incredibly hurt by it then there may be a big problem. Hopefully this is a totally reasonably way of doing things. Generally if I joke about something that seems offensive having to do with a group there's no ill intent meant. It's absolutely just there to tease various groups and get a laugh out of everybody.

It's absolutely ok not to like something as some Feminists don't. However to absolute remove it or change it is not so good (I believe the director or writer should do as they wish at times). Even worse to assume ill intent whether because you have been wronged and see others as always trying to wrong you is also bad. Trust me I know that type of thought process. I used to be depressed a lot and to an extent still am. I thought of myself as worthless and was bullied a lot. Sometimes when some have tried to help I thought they were trying to pick on me. It was my previous experience and mindset that saw ill intent where it did not exist. In some cases people actually legitimately tried to help me. In the case of some feminists I think they are striking out what they find offensive even if a possible other intent existed and even if they couldn't possibly see any other possibility to that action. In this case it's not always good to jump at the first possibility and conclusion that you come to.

In the case of changing things feminists can have their own works of fiction that is more about them. If it's sort of a fan fiction they write then whatever. In the case of a character in the DC universe being a lesbian way back when I don't see much problem with it provided they did it a certain way. That way is that many characters have had reboots or different characters step into a similar role like the black green lantern character which I actually kind of prefer myself. There's been more than one version of various marvel characters. I'd be willing to let at least one version of a marvel character be gay or lesbian. It's really not asking much when done that way. I think what people mind is when it is changed with no possibility of ever going back to a previous loved character. In this way both versions are allowed and both groups win.

Also when watching the Star Wars episode 7 movie bad fan fiction or not once it was stated I did kind of imagine Poe and Finn made a better romantic couple than the more forced Finn and Rei romance that just seemed cheesy to me.

Funny thing is the game stores close to me have women who play magic and one that plays x wing. I never seen one being treated worse then treating them as "one of the guys " most are happy to have women playing.

Sometimes I wonder if that's the thing being "one of the guys " is a large step down from how women are treated in the west. Guy call one another names in jest play pranks and tease one another.

Oldmike wrote:
Funny thing is the game stores close to me have women who play magic and one that plays x wing. I never seen one being treated worse then treating them as "one of the guys " most are happy to have women playing.

Sometimes I wonder if that's the thing being "one of the guys " is a large step down from how women are treated in the west. Guy call one another names in jest play pranks and tease one another.

I think that's fine. I always did prefer tomboy girls that preferred to fart loud, snort while laughing and smell each other's farts and armpits. Oddly as far as looking for a female romantic partner as a guy I only want them to wear more girly clothes and take care of their hygiene like a girl. I don't mind a girl that would get her hands dirty working in a factory.

@spiralingcadaver: I think I had more to discuss about what you said but I can't really remember the details. Anyway it's getting late (1 AM over here) and I have to work tomorrow so I don't have the time to describe it in detail. Rather sad as I didn't get to play too many games to unwind. It's rather unfortunate. At least your post was infinitely more reasonable than some others with opposing views to mine. There's a few people in particular in off-topic that I'm surprised if they didn't get perma-banned for their hijinks.

 CorporateLogo wrote:
More news of gamers being terrible

Read the comments if you need more proof

It's because it's hamfisted in.

Like an actual transgender person on their forums said, she wouldn't tell that to a stranger she just met at all because she wants to be seen as a woman, not a transgender.

What also bugs a lot of people is that you can't give any negative response to it, whereas you can with all other characters.

 CorporateLogo wrote:
More news of gamers being terrible

Read the comments if you need more proof

It´s chocking how people dislike buggy and bad games that are also a barely concealed vehicle for the writers political opinions!

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 CorporateLogo wrote:
More news of gamers being terrible

Read the comments if you need more proof

It's because it's hamfisted in.

Like an actual transgender person on their forums said, she wouldn't tell that to a stranger she just met at all because she wants to be seen as a woman, not a transgender.

What also bugs a lot of people is that you can't give any negative response to it, whereas you can with all other characters.

The argument has gone so meta I can't follow it any more.

Baldur's Gate isn't a pillar of English literature. If people are angry because an LGBT character has been put in the plot, it's because an LGBT character has been put in the plot makes them angry. Then they get angry because they can't express their anger at an LGBT character.

 Kilkrazy wrote:


Baldur's Gate isn't a pillar of English literature.

To some people, it might as well be and it commends the same sort of respect to many people

 Kilkrazy wrote:

If people are angry because an LGBT character has been put in the plot, it's because an LGBT character has been put in the plot makes them angry. Then they get angry because they can't express their anger at an LGBT character.

No, they are mad because the writers has taken the corpse of a cherished work of art and used it to push their agenda in the worst way possible. If there where any sort of creative spark or idea behind this it could have worked, the issues people are getting worked up about is not really new in d&d (see girdle of femininity/masculinity and the elven god Corellon Larethian), the problem is how it has been handled. Instead of trying to do a good story with interesting and deep characters they instead opted for shallow tokenism and posturing in "culture war" issues (Minsc for example has a line that references gamergate of all things...).

For example, The token trans characters first lines of dialogue is basically "Hi, I´m the trans character!", it´s like it´s a character from a political pamphlet or jack chick tract instead of a living human being who happens to be trans.

Here's the thing though, I'm pretty sure Dorian and Mae in Dragon Age Inquisition weren't welcomed with open arms by the entire gaming world.

Of course, Mae isn't likely going to be a major character until Dragon Age 4 and most posters of the game right now don't know who she is.

I wonder how much hate Krem in Inquoisotion got?

A bit late to the party. But that article seems... far too horrible to be true. Like all that stuff happening to her and her alone? I have trouble believing that