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"Jump Units
Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase..."

So they jump as a unit.

Wouldn't this mean that an IC on a bike joined to a Jump unit would prevent them from using their Jump packs at all?

 DarknessEternal wrote:
"Jump Units
Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase..."

So they jump as a unit.

Wouldn't this mean that an IC on a bike joined to a Jump unit would prevent them from using their Jump packs at all?

Correct, but not because of that line. The actual restriction comes later. "Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement." Bikers cannot Jump, so since a Biker model cannot jump, any Jump models would have "to move as a normal model of their type" due to being the only othr option left.

Jump and jet pack infantry have very different rules. Jet pack infantry can use their jet pack move if there is a non jet pack model in the unit, as the rule is a by model.

The sentence charistoph is quoting is in reference to jump infantry using their jump packs in the movement phase or in the assault phase. Taken out of context it can be seen as "only jump infantry can join jump infantry" however in the context , it is pretty clear. I doubt any tournament would say you can't have a bike IC with a jump pack unit.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Jump and jet pack infantry have very different rules. Jet pack infantry can use their jet pack move if there is a non jet pack model in the unit, as the rule is a by model.

The sentence charistoph is quoting is in reference to jump infantry using their jump packs in the movement phase or in the assault phase. Taken out of context it can be seen as "only jump infantry can join jump infantry" however in the context , it is pretty clear. I doubt any tournament would say you can't have a bike IC with a jump pack unit.

You can absolutely have a Bike IC join a Jump Infantry Unit. The resulting unit just wouldn't be able to activate their Jump Packs in the Movement phase since the Bike guy doesn't have one. They'd all have to use the same type of movement, which in this case would be the good old fashioned footslogging kind. The Bike would still move up to 12" and the Jump Dudes would move up to 6" (as per normal Infantry).

This is why you don't actually ever want to join a non-Jump IC to a Jump Unit.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
The sentence charistoph is quoting is in reference to jump infantry using their jump packs in the movement phase or in the assault phase. Taken out of context it can be seen as "only jump infantry can join jump infantry" however in the context , it is pretty clear. I doubt any tournament would say you can't have a bike IC with a jump pack unit.

I don't think anyone said "only jump infantry can join jump infantry", but I was implying that you don't usually want non-Jump ICs to be joining a Jump unit because of that line. What other context are you referring to?

 Charistoph wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
"Jump Units
Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase..."

So they jump as a unit.

Wouldn't this mean that an IC on a bike joined to a Jump unit would prevent them from using their Jump packs at all?

Correct, but not because of that line. The actual restriction comes later. "Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement." Bikers cannot Jump, so since a Biker model cannot jump, any Jump models would have "to move as a normal model of their type" due to being the only othr option left.

"Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement." Is referring to all have to use it either to Jump 12" or for the Assault Phase move or even not using it at all....you can't mix. It isn't saying that the whole unit must have jump packs to use that movement type.

Mj445 wrote:
"Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement." Is referring to all have to use it either to Jump 12" or for the Assault Phase move or even not using it at all....you can't mix. It isn't saying that the whole unit must have jump packs to use that movement type.

Correct, you cannot mix. How can you have the entire unit use the same form of movement if some Jump and some do not?

The no mixing is about the jumpers using one of the movments and that's it. I.e. You can't have three use it for movement and the other three use it for assault. you have to choose. An infantry IC doesn't affect when or how they decide to use that movement and they can use that movement as long as they all remain in unit coherency.

Except that isnt what the rule actually states. It states the unit must ALWAYS use the same form of movement.

"Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase - they cannot use their jump packs in both phases in the same turn. If not using its jump pack, a model moves as a normal model of its type. Indeed, a Jump unit can always choose to move as a normal model of their type if they wish. Note that the entire unit must always use the same type of movement..."

So with the whole rule in context... Jump units can use their packs once per turn. They can use it in either the Movement or Assault phases, or it can choose to not use it at all. If one of the models in the Jump unit decides to use their jump move in the Movement phase, then all the other Jump models must also use their jump move, or must all use it in the Assault phase, or all models must not use it at all.

What it doesn't say is... "A unit made up entirely of models with the Jump type may move 12" in the Movement phase, etc." Because it isn't a special rule, they are units that have different speeds.

Pg.18 BRB under Different Movement Distances Within A Unit says the only restriction in such a case is that they must remain in unit coherency.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even if they used it in the Assault phase with an Infantry IC, all the Jump type would gain Hammer of Wrath, even if your opponent argues that they don't get the re-roll charge range, which I agree is debatable. But the Infantry IC wouldn't get that bonus because his unit type doesn't allow it. They still charge even though their unit type is different because they don't affect each other outside of the need to maintain unit coherency.

Mj445 wrote:
"Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase - they cannot use their jump packs in both phases in the same turn. If not using its jump pack, a model moves as a normal model of its type. Indeed, a Jump unit can always choose to move as a normal model of their type if they wish. Note that the entire unit must always use the same type of movement..."

So with the whole rule in context... Jump units can use their packs once per turn. They can use it in either the Movement or Assault phases, or it can choose to not use it at all. If one of the models in the Jump unit decides to use their jump move in the Movement phase, then all the other Jump models must also use their jump move, or must all use it in the Assault phase, or all models must not use it at all.

What it doesn't say is... "A unit made up entirely of models with the Jump type may move 12" in the Movement phase, etc." Because it isn't a special rule, they are units that have different speeds.

Pg.18 BRB under Different Movement Distances Within A Unit says the only restriction in such a case is that they must remain in unit coherency.

You've been misunderstanding what I've been saying, then, if you think what I've been saying is, "A unit made up entirely of models with the Jump type may move 12" in the Movement phase, etc." I have been referring to "always use the same type of movement".

You have the rule describing two types of movement, one Jump and one normal. It then states you cannot mix the two movement types in the unit, and all must either Jump or not. Distance has nothing to do with my judgement on this matter, as it is never mentioned as a type. Distance is associated with a type, but distance itself is not restricted.

Jump Units- Movement Phase: If a model uses its jump pack in the movement phase, it can move up to 12".

So,if one model in the unit moves his 12" then so must all other Jump models in the unit.

Jump Units - Assault Phase: if a model uses its jump pack to charge into assault, it can re-roll it's charge distance and gains hammer of wrath.

So, if no jump model uses the pack in the Movement Phase and one model decides to use it in the Assault Phase then all other Jump models must use it in Assault.

An infantry IC joins a Jump Unit during deployment. One jump model decides to use the 12" jump move. All other Jump type in the unit must also use their pack in the movement phase (so dangerous terrain test, even if you only move 1", and they can move over terrain or models as if they weren't there.). They can move that full 12", however, the Infantry IC can only move 6". So they can all move up to their maximum allowed distance...the jumpers 12" and the Infantry IC 6"... As long as they remain in unit coherency.

IC can only not be attached to a MC. And pg 18 BRB talks about this situation, when they have different speeds you can move them as much as they are allowed but must always maintain unit coherency.

Using "Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement" by itself to justify that a unit of jumpers cannot use their packs if they have a non-jumper IC join is not right. As I've pointed out a few times, that is only a restriction on jump models so they cannot move half with the packs so the other half can move normal and avoid dangerous terrain test, etc. It does not restrict the IC from joining and the IC doesn't affect Jump Units at all. The only rule they have to follow in this case is maintaining unit coherency.

Mj445 wrote:
Using "Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement" by itself to justify that a unit of jumpers cannot use their packs if they have a non-jumper IC join is not right. As I've pointed out a few times, that is only a restriction on jump models so they cannot move half with the packs so the other half can move normal and avoid dangerous terrain test, etc. It does not restrict the IC from joining and the IC doesn't affect Jump Units at all. The only rule they have to follow in this case is maintaining unit coherency.

Wow, you really are not understanding anything I presented. Distance is not in consideration. Joining is not an issue.

"Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement" is for the ENTIRE unit, that is original models and attached ICs, not just the Jump models involved. If an Infantry IC is not Jumping, is the ENTIRE unit using the Jump form of movement? No, so that only leaves "normal" movement.

Let me highlight your rule presentations above:

Mj445 wrote:
Jump Units- Movement Phase: If a model uses its jump pack in the movement phase, it can move up to 12".

Jump Units - Assault Phase: if a model uses its jump pack to charge into assault, it can re-roll it's charge distance and gains hammer of wrath.

It is the highlighted portions above to which is being referenced when using "the same form of movement". And again, no where is this model specific, it is requisite the ENTIRE unit Jump or not Jump.

ICs can join a Jump unit, but that unit will not be able to Jump unless the IC can also.

Using "Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement" by itself to justify that a unit of jumpers cannot use their packs if they have a non-jumper IC join is not right.

As I've pointed out a few times, that is only a restriction on jump models so they cannot move half with the packs so the other half can move normal and avoid dangerous terrain test, etc.

Mj445 wrote:
Using "Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement" by itself to justify that a unit of jumpers cannot use their packs if they have a non-jumper IC join is not right.

As I've pointed out a few times, that is only a restriction on jump models so they cannot move half with the packs so the other half can move normal and avoid dangerous terrain test, etc.

It is not entirely by itself. Context for the form of movement is provided by the preceding sentences. The fact that it is requisite on the entire unit, and not just all Jump models in the unit, is what makes Jumping with a unit only partially made up of Jump models useless. You have pointed out your opinion, but this is not supported by the statements made in the rules. You need some other context to translate "entire unit" to mean "only Jump models in this unit" for your case to have any weight.

Units are not models. Models are not units.* Not when it comes to the rules.

Here is the paragraph, with form of movement, model, and unit references highlighted:

Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase – they cannot use their jump packs in both phases in the same turn. If not using its jump pack, a model moves as a normal model of its type. Indeed, a Jump unit can always choose to move as a normal model of their type if they wish. Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement. Units that are described as ‘moving like’ Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules.

Who does it state that this restriction against mixing forms of movement applies to? Is it red, or blue?

*Some units are single model units, but that is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.