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 warboss wrote:

[...] You fired on that 10 man marine squad with your chaos havocs and killed 8 of them? Cool. Next, your chosen unit fires at them and kills the last two... Technically, according to your interpretation, the target unit is completely destroyed because it "started" with two just before they fired and now has zero, even though the havoc squad did 80% of the casulaties.

The unit is completely destroyed, because the BRB says that, since all the models were removed as casualties, it is considered to be completely destroyed. The rulebook doesn't care how or when the models were removed; just that they were all removed as casualties. Whether the unit started the turn with 10 or 1 is irrelevant, and that is what I was basing my interpretation on.

Now, I could, perhaps, see some reasoning behind your idea that all casualties must have been inflicted by the same unit for Thirst for Glory; however, I do not believe "a unit" unequivocally means "a single unit". But that is probably a discussion for another time.

* * *

As for the topic at hand: Is there any indication that the Supplement will include a formation for the other gods (Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh)?

Avadar wrote:

As for the topic at hand: Is there any indication that the Supplement will include a formation for the other gods (Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh)?

I would be surprised if there was not such a thing. Abaddon is known for having a lieutenant of each God.

The one power that gets me for a Rules as Written issue is the new psychic power for the Sorcerers.

There is one sentence in there, it says: "The unit cannot be locked in combat"

The way it is stated makes it sound like a requirement, like you may not target a unit already locked in combat. However, it doesnt say that. It says. The unit cannot be locked in combat. As though the power prevents that unit from being locked in combat for the duration of the power. So you can shoot with them, but then in the subsequent assault phase you may not charge them

I doubt anyone would play it that way, but on my first reading of it, I was a little confused.

So, Cabal in a unit of Nurgle Spawn running around trying to get Dev Cents to shoot their friends? Seems to be the best of this I've seen, the rest are meh.

 Icculus wrote:
The one power that gets me for a Rules as Written issue is the new psychic power for the Sorcerers.

There is one sentence in there, it says: "The unit cannot be locked in combat"

The way it is stated makes it sound like a requirement, like you may not target a unit already locked in combat. However, it doesnt say that. It says. The unit cannot be locked in combat. As though the power prevents that unit from being locked in combat for the duration of the power. So you can shoot with them, but then in the subsequent assault phase you may not charge them

I doubt anyone would play it that way, but on my first reading of it, I was a little confused.

Glad it wasn't just me

The Cabal looks trolly as heck. I love the idea that taking a dakka-focused superheavy against anyone running that formation becomes very much a 'Are you SURE you want to do that?' scenario.

 Robin5t wrote:
The Cabal looks trolly as heck. I love the idea that taking a dakka-focused superheavy against anyone running that formation becomes very much a 'Are you SURE you want to do that?' scenario.

Doesn't work against vehicles.

Does work against GMCs.

Also, with just 3 Sorcerers, the leader being equiped with a spell familiar, you have a good change of succesfully casting with just 4 warp dice...

Cilithan

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
The Cabal looks trolly as heck. I love the idea that taking a dakka-focused superheavy against anyone running that formation becomes very much a 'Are you SURE you want to do that?' scenario.

Doesn't work against vehicles.

Does work against GMCs.

Certainly does work against Gargantuans!

Oops my bad!!! Miss read your comment. Soz

to those wondering about the Thirst for Glory and the requisite destruction of a unit, page 13 of the BRB spells it out for us. "When all of the models in a unit are removed as casualties, the unit is said to have been 'completely destroyed.'"

But honestly these are nice. Really inspires some cool army building ideas. Hoping for more of the same in Crimson Slaughter, and Angels of Death.
On the off hand chance, does anyone else feel like a kid after a nasty divorce being spoiled by their new step-daddy/mommy?

With the cabal getting that free Psy power does that mean they can no longer get the free primaris power?

 Fishboy wrote:
With the cabal getting that free Psy power does that mean they can no longer get the free primaris power?

They'll still get it as long as they follow the "generating psy powers" in the book.

As a long time Chaos Space Marine player, I'm not particularly impressed by these formations.

The Tormented and the Hounds of Abaddon are kind of okay. But the rest are pretty poor formations in my opinion.

For example, The Chosen of Abaddon is kind of redundant, Fearless on your already Fearless Chaos Lord. And the boon table is garbage to begin with, so any new rules making you roll on it even more isn't an improvement.

Another missed opportunity for GW to help out CSM. Oh well, Mother always said that Patience is a virtue best learned by waiting.

nudibranch wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Well, my Kataphrons are no longer even going to be on the same table as that Sorceror formation. Too scary. Good job writing great rules, GW.

Dude, you gotta let us Chaos players have something...

That wasn't sarcasm. I like the rules. I'm just terrified.
That sort of thing is exactly what Chaos should be good at. Corrupting and debuffing the enemy.

 warboss wrote:

Read as written, that's an interesting rule that follows the fluff and name but that I suspect will be misread. It says an enemy unit must be COMPLETELY destroyed by a UNIT (singular) from a Black Legion warband. So if any other unit kills even one model in that 40 ork boyz squad that another squad killed 39 in, neither unit can get the bonus for destroying the unit. I predict that folks will instead mistakenly add "in a turn" to it and assume that if they wipe out what is present at the start of a turn with a single unit then they deserve the bonus.

Absolutely not true. None of the maelstrom objectives work like this and they're worded in the exact same manner.

Terminators and Sorcerer get fearless, good.
Warpsmith and 2 forgefiends get buff.

I will use those anyway, so these formations are pretty good. I hoped Tzeentch daemonkin but these are better than nothing.

Take Cabal with 3-5 unmarked Sorcerers on bike, Take a GorePack, Profit

Im just happy to have SOMETHING for now. Means i will actually be running my CSM's again and not just running Daemons or KDK to stay in games. Some fun combos to mix and match in as well as some fun themed lists.

Well, the Black Legion buff to Possessed is... something, so it should be interesting to see the Crimson Slaughter take on it.

Wow seeing these really makes me mad they absolutley rushed the ork formations with no care involved at all. garbage tier compared to these.

I see nothing on cultists, spawn, obliterators, PM, NM, or 1kSons. I will be disspointed if there are no other Cult detachments, because the khorne one looks nice.

 Orock wrote:
Wow seeing these really makes me mad they absolutley rushed the ork formations with no care involved at all. garbage tier compared to these.

GW seems to be moving in a decidedly positive direction as of late, and they are seemingly listening to the players more. I'm kind of hoping that Orks are going to get a main codex update soonish. I don't play Orks, but the only Ork player in my meta refuses to play his until he stands a chance. He's playing his SM until then. I miss my Ork targets :(.

pepsuber wrote:
I see nothing on cultists, spawn, obliterators, PM, NM, or 1kSons. I will be disspointed if there are no other Cult detachments, because the khorne one looks nice.

Seeing how a box of 20 cultists, with an Aspiring Champion "to lead them" is coming out at the same time, I'd be highly surprised if there isn't some form of Cultist option in the new supplement. Even if it's just the ability to take an aspiring champion in a group of cultists, that would be huge. Most of the time my cultists run away rather than get killed outright, so having the higher leadership of a champion to anchor them (especially if VotLW is in effect) would be a huge boon. Not to mention the chance to hide a powerfist or a set of lightning claws in there.

 Orock wrote:
Wow seeing these really makes me mad they absolutley rushed the ork formations with no care involved at all. garbage tier compared to these.

Unfortunately, the big issue for the Ghazghkull book was there were formations already present in its first iteration, unlike Chaos who could really only go from up from where their abysmal place was in the 40K hierarchy. So sadly, WAAAAGH! Ghazghkull became more of a clean up job and consolidation rather than any real attempt to inject new or revised flavour into it unlike the chaos supplements who were before the 7th. ed formation days.

As far as I can see unfortunately we have to bank on the new ork codex making things and units right rather than the supplement itself which sucks.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

pepsuber wrote:
I see nothing on cultists, spawn, obliterators, PM, NM, or 1kSons. I will be disspointed if there are no other Cult detachments, because the khorne one looks nice.

Seeing how a box of 20 cultists, with an Aspiring Champion "to lead them" is coming out at the same time, I'd be highly surprised if there isn't some form of Cultist option in the new supplement. Even if it's just the ability to take an aspiring champion in a group of cultists, that would be huge. Most of the time my cultists run away rather than get killed outright, so having the higher leadership of a champion to anchor them (especially if VotLW is in effect) would be a huge boon. Not to mention the chance to hide a powerfist or a set of lightning claws in there.

Yeah I doubt they would give Khorne a formation and not the other 4 gods. + this is all just The Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter could have more awesome formations for us!

MRW when new formations turn out to be dataslate and Apocalypse reprints that sadly do nothing to fix the problems of CSM.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Seeing how a box of 20 cultists, with an Aspiring Champion "to lead them" is coming out at the same time, I'd be highly surprised if there isn't some form of Cultist option in the new supplement.

It could be tied to the Crimson Slaughter supplement, which already has cultist if I remember correctly.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
MRW when new formations turn out to be dataslate and Apocalypse reprints that sadly do nothing to fix the problems of CSM.

Well, you're already wrong. And you posted this after evidence of your wrongness was available and in the thread already.

 Ghaz wrote:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Seeing how a box of 20 cultists, with an Aspiring Champion "to lead them" is coming out at the same time, I'd be highly surprised if there isn't some form of Cultist option in the new supplement.

It could be tied to the Crimson Slaughter supplement, which already has cultist if I remember correctly.

Or it could just be a bundle box.

Cultists make an appearance in KDK, Crimson Slaughter, and there's nothing stopping Black Legion from potentially getting a Cultist option in their Chaoticurion.

I never said it wasn't an option for a Black Legion list. I was pointing out that it could be for the Crimson Slaughter supplement and most likely for both..