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So talking with some friends over the past week, and we concluded there are a lot of armies right now that can use infiltrate and scout moves to put them in optimal turn 1 placement. Maybe it is just our local group though..

What are some of the ways you counter infiltrate and scout moves in your lists? Is the current game meta have enough of it, that you should have something in your list to help mitigate this threat?

There is always that inquisition HQ with 3 skulls for 34 points.. (granted it takes up 1 detachment, if you have limits).

Aside from the aforementioned servo skulls, having some of your own infiltrating units helps a lot.

You'll have to roll off to see who infiltrates first, but it will always be a "you place a unit, opponent places a unit, back to you, etc." deal, allowing you to block scout moves (can't scout to within 12" of a unit), other infiltrating units (12" away / 18" away if in line of sight to any unit), and protecting your backfield.

They can't assault after using infiltrate, so does it really matter? Shooting them in the face seems to work for me, so I can't imagine the Tau having a problem.

Martel732 wrote:
They can't assault after using infiltrate, so does it really matter? Shooting them in the face seems to work for me, so I can't imagine the Tau having a problem.

I was not trying to bring up a discussion singling out Tau, more a general topic about infiltrate in the current meta.

Sure they can't assault turn 1.. but if their entire army is possibly in your face.. it limits your movement and they can charge turn 2.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They can't assault after using infiltrate, so does it really matter? Shooting them in the face seems to work for me, so I can't imagine the Tau having a problem.

I was not trying to bring up a discussion singling out Tau, more a general topic about infiltrate in the current meta.

Sure they can't assault turn 1.. but if their entire army is possibly in your face.. it limits your movement and they can charge turn 2.

Okay substitute any top tier army. Just shoot them off the board (no turn 2 assault when they're dead) or run them over with TWC or Wraiths or some other OP unit. They won't be limiting your movement after that! The only army that really has to worry is maybe IG. They want to shoot, but aren't in the cool kids' club of killing entire lists in one turn. Infiltrate only matters to lists that already don't matter.

Martel732 wrote:

Okay substitute any top tier army. Just shoot them off the board (no turn 2 assault when they're dead) or run them over with TWC or Wraiths or some other OP unit. They won't be limiting your movement after that! The only army that really has to worry is maybe IG. They want to shoot, but aren't in the cool kids' club of killing entire lists in one turn. Infiltrate only matters to lists that already don't matter.

This won't work against an MSU Gladius. With very little effort the Marine player can have more free transports than you have actually units to shoot at them, meaning more than half of his army is guaranteed to survive you first volley. I faced this with my Eldar recently and even going first I couldn't kill enough Rhinos or Marines, then all my Scatterbikes & WK got Grav'd to death.
Called it after turn 1, went home to convert an Eldar Inquisitor with psychically controlled "servo-Owls".

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Sorry if i find it hard to buy eldar ever coming up short in firepower.

And wk with toe in cover are amazing at tanking grav.

Grizzyzz wrote:So talking with some friends over the past week, and we concluded there are a lot of armies right now that can use infiltrate and scout moves to put them in optimal turn 1 placement. Maybe it is just our local group though..

What are some of the ways you counter infiltrate and scout moves in your lists? Is the current game meta have enough of it, that you should have something in your list to help mitigate this threat?

There is always that inquisition HQ with 3 skulls for 34 points.. (granted it takes up 1 detachment, if you have limits).

Servo skulls are amazing, pretty much to the point of being broken. For non-imperials, a single cheap infiltrating unit can be great, too. Stuffing a scout redeploy is really powerful, as those scouting units often rely on getting that free bump forward as a large part of their effectiveness.

Galef wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Okay substitute any top tier army. Just shoot them off the board (no turn 2 assault when they're dead) or run them over with TWC or Wraiths or some other OP unit. They won't be limiting your movement after that! The only army that really has to worry is maybe IG. They want to shoot, but aren't in the cool kids' club of killing entire lists in one turn. Infiltrate only matters to lists that already don't matter.

This won't work against an MSU Gladius. With very little effort the Marine player can have more free transports than you have actually units to shoot at them, meaning more than half of his army is guaranteed to survive you first volley. I faced this with my Eldar recently and even going first I couldn't kill enough Rhinos or Marines, then all my Scatterbikes & WK got Grav'd to death.
Called it after turn 1, went home to convert an Eldar Inquisitor with psychically controlled "servo-Owls".

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In the TWC/Wraith or Ork scenario, I usually wouldn't scout forward. Would tend to prefer to create a U-shaped killbox at least 24" out that they have to run toward and try to get as many shots off as possible before they can get into my lines.

Against shooty space elves, getting that scout move forward can be the difference between it being a game at all or just being slaughtered in your deployment zone - for either side.

Martel732 wrote:Sorry if i find it hard to buy eldar ever coming up short in firepower.

And wk with toe in cover are amazing at tanking grav.

A WK with its toe in cover *can* get lucky against spammed scouting grav rhinos, but rhino searchlights negate the night-fight cover bonus, and a throwaway drop-podded character with an auspex (libby or chaplain) can punch that back even further. The WK shouldn't usually be the first target, or really a target at all if there's any other alternative unit to shoot at, but it's not as bad an idea as dumping shots into a lychstar or other rediculous deathstar equivalent.

You knew the SM player was gonna infiltrate & you didn't grab some cover saves? Given that a game table has terrain and finite space how did he crowd that many rhinos around a WK? With a 4+ cs he'd have needed about 21 grav shots rerolling 1s to hit & rerolling all to wound rolls to insta gib a WK. Thats about 7 grav cannons.

I don't think infiltrate is your problem. I think your problem is your opponent has put a couple hundred points more than you on the table.