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 Fifty wrote:
Well, firstly, I meant strong character, rather than physical strength. But why are we assuming she has no "special" skills? In the books there Jedi, pseudo-Jedi, etc... It doesn't seem such a stretch.

As for the diversity issue, if we are talking about a galactic-wide film, we could assume only one race will be evident, based on where we have experienced. Maybe it is because I am lucky enough to live in London, but I'd like to think that if I grew up somewhere a bit more mono-racial, I'd still be aware that there are other races. There are quite a lot of black people in Africa, for example. If you only want to watch movies that match what you've experienced though, I am not sure how to persuade you that is wrong.

I was merely saying just a tiny bit of thought would answer all your questions to that guy.

How many people read starwars books? Not many. Even when I was obsessed with the movies as a kid I hated the books. But so far we are presented with what looks to be a 30 year old women taking down soldiers in the trailer. Easy to see where people begin getting some disbelief yes?

In that same vein, if watching movies about only what people experience is not an issue, then why do so many complain when their demographic is excluded (like women for example as the common one?) or if another demographic is commonly used (like white men as the common example). Because clearly, and again a bit of thought would solve this question, it actually is an issue to a lot of people. Which is fair enough. I know for me, when I see a film thats not set in UK or USA its quite nice, especially movies in my country. O)f course, where you live you see British movies all the time as does the rest of the world. So perhaps you don't notice it as such. Even in Africa there is a growing market for films by Africans for Africans rather than just watching foreign movies. Because for most people it actually matters, especially if it's a film they would like to enjoy.

Anyway, I don't overly care, I just don't understand why thats so hard for some people to swallow thats all.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Fifty wrote:


Honestly, what is actually wrong with having strong women in these films? Do you find it somehow unbelievable?

I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.

I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.

I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?

Well, these would be great arguments if physical strength was the only thing factored in when fighting. I mean, she could certainly be trained to take on things much larger than her. She could have improved fighting ability through training. We have no clue.

Also, the best soldiers in the galaxy? Really? I have heard the Stormtroopers called a lot of things, but never that.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Fifty wrote:


Honestly, what is actually wrong with having strong women in these films? Do you find it somehow unbelievable?

I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.

I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.

I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?

Well, these would be great arguments if physical strength was the only thing factored in when fighting. I mean, she could certainly be trained to take on things much larger than her. She could have improved fighting ability through training. We have no clue.

Also, the best soldiers in the galaxy? Really? I have heard the Stormtroopers called a lot of things, but never that.

"Improved fighting ability". Life is not a video game mate. If she was truly "trained" she would not look the way she does.

This should be the minimum standard of any action hero female at least barring aliens maybe.



Even people who fight by hoping their opponent doesn't balance well (like in some martial arts etc) still need to maintain their physical strength. You can't really excuse this stuff without a lot of hand waving like being a jedi or super being etc.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Also, the best soldiers in the galaxy? Really? I have heard the Stormtroopers called a lot of things, but never that.

"The best" does not necessarily mean "good"

I mean, if teddy bears can destroy a whole garrison of Stormtroopers in episode 6, I am willing to believe a human woman might just be able to kill a few without having to look like she's hulking out at the gym 24/7.

Star Wars has the Force in it. If you are complaining about having to suspend disbelief, then maybe you are watching the wrong movie.

Maybe we need to start gaking on every movie that doesn't include every single gender/race/age/orientation/whatever to make things even.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Fifty wrote:


Honestly, what is actually wrong with having strong women in these films? Do you find it somehow unbelievable?

I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.

I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.

I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?

Well, these would be great arguments if physical strength was the only thing factored in when fighting. I mean, she could certainly be trained to take on things much larger than her. She could have improved fighting ability through training. We have no clue.

Also, the best soldiers in the galaxy? Really? I have heard the Stormtroopers called a lot of things, but never that.

"Improved fighting ability". Life is not a video game mate. If she was truly "trained" she would not look the way she does.

This should be the minimum standard of any action hero female at least barring aliens maybe.



Even people who fight by hoping their opponent doesn't balance well (like in some martial arts etc) still need to maintain their physical strength. You can't really excuse this stuff without a lot of hand waving like being a jedi or super being etc.

Life is also not a movie, mate. If she was truly "trained" in a fictional universe with people that are not the same types of Human that we are, I would assume she could look exactly like they want her to look like.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Fifty wrote:


Honestly, what is actually wrong with having strong women in these films? Do you find it somehow unbelievable?

I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.

I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.

I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?

Well, these would be great arguments if physical strength was the only thing factored in when fighting. I mean, she could certainly be trained to take on things much larger than her. She could have improved fighting ability through training. We have no clue.

Also, the best soldiers in the galaxy? Really? I have heard the Stormtroopers called a lot of things, but never that.

"Improved fighting ability". Life is not a video game mate. If she was truly "trained" she would not look the way she does.

This should be the minimum standard of any action hero female at least barring aliens maybe.



Even people who fight by hoping their opponent doesn't balance well (like in some martial arts etc) still need to maintain their physical strength. You can't really excuse this stuff without a lot of hand waving like being a jedi or super being etc.

Life is also not a movie, mate. If she was truly "trained" in a fictional universe with people that are not the same types of Human that we are, I would assume she could look exactly like they want her to look like.

And that is fine if you are one of the people who simply accepts whats on screen. But when someone makes a complaint and someone jumps on them because they assume its about fragile masculinity (see the original comment I responded too) or god forbid religious reasons is it not unreasonable to simply point out why someone might have that certain complaint.

Not everyone likes the same things.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

xraytango wrote:
Yep, Grand Admiral for sure. The only ones to wear white tunics. My supposition is that it is Grand Admiral Yularen.

Colonel Yularen wore white because he served in the ISB.

 Swastakowey wrote:

And that is fine if you are one of the people who simply accepts whats on screen.

I generally accept what is on screen when it is a universe where these things can and have happened in the past. Also the fact there is space wizards and everybody is touched by the force in some way.

But you are right, women fighting is the most ridiculous thing about these movies.....

Was that Donnie Yen laying the beat down on those troopers?

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

And that is fine if you are one of the people who simply accepts whats on screen.

I generally accept what is on screen when it is a universe where these things can and have happened in the past. Also the fact there is space wizards and everybody is touched by the force in some way.

But you are right, women fighting is the most ridiculous thing about these movies.....

If everyone is part space wizard then it evens the playing field and we are back to square one bar some exceptions yes?

Because I totally said that. Reading comprehension is not the strongest here I see.

Anyway, still no talk about the super battle droid looking thing? Could this be the first prequel reference?

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

And that is fine if you are one of the people who simply accepts whats on screen.

I generally accept what is on screen when it is a universe where these things can and have happened in the past. Also the fact there is space wizards and everybody is touched by the force in some way.

But you are right, women fighting is the most ridiculous thing about these movies.....

I know, right?! Also, God forbid they're good at doing things! The only way that is acceptable is if the movie takes a time out to explain it to us in detail. Otherwise, it's just too unrealistic in a movie with space wizards, gangster slugs, hyperdrives, and laser swords.

Guys guys guys we have a new Star Wars trailer here. If somebody is all worked up about a female lead so be it. Why not move on to any number of interesting things about the trailer rather than stir that one guy's pot?

I mean good lord look at that super laser dish being put into place. How many channels do you think Tarkin gets?

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

And that is fine if you are one of the people who simply accepts whats on screen.

I generally accept what is on screen when it is a universe where these things can and have happened in the past. Also the fact there is space wizards and everybody is touched by the force in some way.

But you are right, women fighting is the most ridiculous thing about these movies.....

If everyone is part space wizard then it evens the playing field and we are back to square one bar some exceptions yes?

Because I totally said that. Reading comprehension is not the strongest here I see.

No, no you didn't. What you said was female space wizards are fine, but everything else is unbelievable.

Which is hilarious.

 Manchu wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
The Officer in white had the same number of markings on his Uniform as the Grand Admirals, the only difference is they aren't 6 Blue on the right and 3 red and 3 yellow on the Left.

That would make him an Admiral rather than a Grand Admiral. The issue is his white uniform, which could be explained by service in the ISB. An ISB officer would be a suitable villain in a movie about a covert Rebel operation.

I think Grand Admirals have white pants as well, while ISB officers have black/gray pants. Which would put our mystery officer more firmly in the ISB category.

The diversity argument is as silly to me as always, but I am sympathetic to the notion that if you're going to have a female character who can hold her own [without enhancements such as bionics or the force], they should at least look the part.

Hugh Jackman is almost 50, but that doesn't stop him from bulking up to the point where he can actually give comic book Wolverine's physique a run for its money- there is no reason for female action-leads to not have bodies like women's MMA fighters if they're expected to hold their own against trained male soldiers on-screen.

That said, it's really just a minor peeve. At the end of the day this is just a movie, sex appeal is considered the most important aspect of a female character to movie studios and we live in a society where muscle mass is considered masculine. So, oh well.

I'm hyped AF for this movie regardless.

 Manchu wrote:
Guys guys guys we have a new Star Wars trailer here. If somebody is all worked up about a female lead so be it. Why not move on to any number of interesting things about the trailer rather than stir that one guy's pot?

I mean good lord look at that super laser dish being put into place. How many channels do you think Tarkin gets?

I seem to remember that piece being on the Death Star at the end of episode 3.

 Manchu wrote:
Guys guys guys we have a new Star Wars trailer here. If somebody is all worked up about a female lead so be it. Why not move on to any number of interesting things about the trailer rather than stir that one guy's pot?

I mean good lord look at that super laser dish being put into place. How many channels do you think Tarkin gets?

Probably not that many. If the Original movies are anything to go by, the dish will have horrible bandwidth.

Only thing that excited me was Mon Mothma and Donnie Yen.

Otherwise it looks not as bad as the prequels, but not really that good either

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Guys guys guys we have a new Star Wars trailer here. If somebody is all worked up about a female lead so be it. Why not move on to any number of interesting things about the trailer rather than stir that one guy's pot?

I mean good lord look at that super laser dish being put into place. How many channels do you think Tarkin gets?

I seem to remember that piece being on the Death Star at the end of episode 3.

Not quite:



Edited for smaller picture

If this quality of starwars is anything to go by - I am certain this generation of youngsters will prefer star trek. Which is probably a good thing.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
On the subject of Death Stars, this will be the fourth star wars film out of eight to feature a Death Star

It would be nice to have some originality once in a while.

Am I remembering wrong, or are you into the Bond franchise? If so, tomato, tomahto. If not, please excuse this comment.


Trailer looks fun. Sucker for star wars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
If this quality of starwars is anything to go by - I am certain this generation of youngsters will prefer star trek. Which is probably a good thing.

Not to start a row or anything, but I much prefer TFA to the current trek offerings.

 d-usa wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Guys guys guys we have a new Star Wars trailer here. If somebody is all worked up about a female lead so be it. Why not move on to any number of interesting things about the trailer rather than stir that one guy's pot?

I mean good lord look at that super laser dish being put into place. How many channels do you think Tarkin gets?

I seem to remember that piece being on the Death Star at the end of episode 3.

Not quite:



Edited for smaller picture

I don't remember that scene at all. Was it on a later edition or something?

No it was part of the theatrical release. It is at the end of RotS.

 Manchu wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So, I know Felicity Jones' character being in an Imperial Uniform is likely just her undercover, but is anyone else hoping she's actually an ISB Agent?

Yeah I am hoping she at least has some past working for the Empire, if not that she is a current double agent. It could be a movie about her starting out as a mole and then turning because the Empire is making a fething planet destroyer. I mean, that is a pretty unethical weapon.

Yeah, it would be a good time to stop and think to yourself "Am I on the right side?" I get the feeling the same thing is happening with Agent Kallus on Rebels after the "Enemy Mine" episode.

i still refuse to get overhyped by Star Wars, but I will admit that this trailer has piqued my interest a lot more than any other Star Wars film since the original trilogy.

I actually have hopes this will be good, rather than a cynical fatalism. Actually this means the film is actually more likely to disappoint funnily enough. I had such low expectations that I actually enjoyed even Attack of the Clones straight up for what it was.

Watching the trailer again, in the scene with the alarms sounding, is the lady lead walking out of the hanger with... Kyle Katarn? Looks a bit like him...

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Watching the trailer again, in the scene with the alarms sounding, is the lady lead walking out of the hanger with... Kyle Katarn? Looks a bit like him...

No, it's Diego Luna's character, Cassein Willix. Given they're central to stealing the death star plans, I'm guessing the general appearance of them is meant to be a nod to fans of Dark Forces without outright using those characters (especially with Jyns name spoken in the trailer sounded super similar to Jan Ors).

Looks interesting, will be released this year right?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Rogue One, and the prequels, robbed Star Wars of its greatest strength, because you know what will happen beforehand. You knew that Anakin would turn to the dark side, you know that the rebels will get the plans.

Ah, but what about the journey, some people will say. Isn't it interesting to see where Anakin or these rebels went right and wrong?

A good point, but a revealed destination still locks the narrative in a rigid strait jacket.

Even in totally original works people generally know how things will turn out overall. People weren't on the edge of their seats hoping the rebels would blow up the Death Star, instead the fun was in seeing how it played out – Obi-Wan telling Luke to use the force, Han coming in at the last second to save the day. Similarly people weren’t held in suspense that Luke might just turn to the dark side when he confronted his Dad, but watching how it played out, with his Dad eventually defending his son.

What was lacking in the prequels is that little was done to change our understanding of how the events described in the original films played out, and where it was changed it was in boring or unsatisfying ways.