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Maz was my wife's favourite part of the film by a long shot, just fyi

 Matthew wrote:
Am I the only one who liked both Force Awakens and Rogue One?

I thought they were both excellent.

For me;

If I had to rank the Star Wars movies?
Phantom Menace 1/10
Attack of the Clones 4/10
Revenge of the Sith 4/10
Rogue One 9/10
Star Wars 8/10
Empire Strikes Back 9/10
Return of the Jedi 8/10
Force Awakens 8/10

I don't really care that they retreaded ground in Force Awakens. That was a blatantly purposeful decision, and I think they did a good job at just about everything except a bunch of little details (Captain Phasma was a complete push over, Kylo Ren without his mask being a bit to stereotypically angsty and that hair eck, and the general plot being a little too much "get ready for all the sequels" for my taste).

 RiTides wrote:
Maz was my wife's favourite part of the film by a long shot, just fyi

Haha, what on earth? I can understand liking the set design and the background aliens but the character herself was rubbish both in terms of her design and her role/dialogue. That whole scene felt like a compromise, like no one agreed on how to progress the story so they just dropped in a Yoda/Cantina mashup. The following raid by Kylo and his goons, and then the return of Poe, was very good, however. I am more cynical than I would like but even I cheered when Poe swooped in with his squad and picked off those stormtroopers.

 Galef wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
...I love the fact Kylo is just a crap Vader....

I don't think of Kylo as "crap Vader", instead I see him as "better Anakin"

It all about perspective, or as Obi-wan says "a certain point of view"

-

I just see him as crappy. The difference between him and Vader in Rogue One were so striking. It really highlights the weakness of the Ren character and TFA's "cover band" like quality.

I really like Kylo Ren as a character. The temptation subversion is pretty interesting to me. I also like how he is 'realistically' competent. When he succeeds, it's believable. When he fails, it's believable. Maybe a better way to put that is, his successes and failures are meaningful from a plot/characterization perspective - rather than just happening because X needs to happen at minute mark Y. And he has arc. So as a character, he's relateable, has coherent stakes, and develops in an interesting way.

He works at a "meta" level as well - he's basically a SW fan who never saw the prequels.

Vader in R1 was just porn.

I had a sudden image of Kylo Ren vs. Vader...and Ren dies before I finish the sentence.

Why would they fight?

Also - Kylo Ren would make no sense if he was as powerful as Vader. He's a Vader-wannabe, after all.

 Manchu wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Maz was my wife's favourite part of the film by a long shot, just fyi

Haha, what on earth?

I'm not saying it's logical, I'm just saying . I also quite like the character, but can't tell subjectively anymore, since that biased me towards her! She seemed fun, my main thought was her establishment felt a little too much like the mos eisley bar, but she herself I really liked

I call the character Sassy Orange Yoda. It's sort of like Mountain Dew Code Red but less original. Sassy Orange Yoda was a pretty clear rehash of Yoda's "I'm quirky but don't underestimate me" bit and, unfortunately, a real waste of Lupita Ngoyo in terms of that actress's beauty. Instead of this gorgeous woman we get dual citrine-hued cat anuses pointed at us through swimming goggles, yuck. Sassy Orange Yoda is supposed to be wise, like Classic Yoda, but says nothing that isn't already established. She just says it in, like, a mystical way I guess. And for no reason she has Anakin's lightsaber in her downstairs linen closet. I haven't seen a character this pasted-on since ... oh nevermind, I saw Rogue One pretty recently.

I get it, Disney has to throw all this rehash stuff in because they need to prove this is really SW. I just hope they are over it now and can move on with Episode VIII and use new ideas and themes, which were the best parts of Episode VII and, sadly, didn't make it to R1.

 Manchu wrote:
unfortunately, a real waste of Lupita Ngoyo in terms of that actress's beauty.

I had to look it up myself originally, as it seemed an odd choice, and I can recall two others that said something along the lines of "I thought Lupita Ngoyo was supposed to be in this" and were disappointed to find out that it was just a voice. I'm not as down on VII as some but man was that a waste of a good actress.

I heard that she originally had a much larger part but J.J. Abrams et al gutted it because they were dissatisfied with her performance or something.

 Manchu wrote:
Why would they fight?

Also - Kylo Ren would make no sense if he was as powerful as Vader. He's a Vader-wannabe, after all.

IMHO he isn't Vader was completely dominated by the emperor until Luke came along, so he didn't have
the mental instability Kylo has.

Watched Rogue one yesterday again, i thought the slight shake of the camera during the hangar scene was the only time
but it seems it was during the whole movie, once i was into to the story i didn't mind it but during slow moments, i started to notice
it.

I don't understand in this age of steady cams, computer aided filming that they feel the need to add a "natural" shake,
Every mobile phone, camera has anti shake software these days, or did they blow all their budget on the CGI?

 LordofHats wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
Am I the only one who liked both Force Awakens and Rogue One?

I thought they were both excellent.

For me;

If I had to rank the Star Wars movies?
Phantom Menace 1/10
Attack of the Clones 4/10
Revenge of the Sith 4/10
Rogue One 9/10
Star Wars 8/10
Empire Strikes Back 9/10
Return of the Jedi 8/10
Force Awakens 8/10

I don't really care that they retreaded ground in Force Awakens. That was a blatantly purposeful decision, and I think they did a good job at just about everything except a bunch of little details (Captain Phasma was a complete push over, Kylo Ren without his mask being a bit to stereotypically angsty and that hair eck, and the general plot being a little too much "get ready for all the sequels" for my taste).

I would raise RotS by 1 and drop RotJ by 1, and then agree with that rating. Maybe call TPM a 2/10 cuz it had quite a few AWESOME duels.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I heard that she originally had a much larger part but J.J. Abrams et al gutted it because they were dissatisfied with her performance or something.

That was the speculation. JJ said it was just an unfortunate part of the editing process, same with the ending where Leia doesn't even seem to acknowledge Chewie.

Yeah, there's an axle involving Leia with that too. It's a great Carrie scene but the is, the very nature of the scene requires it to happen before the Starkiller fires. Which means you lose the emotional impact of the first time seeing Leia in the film is from Hans point of view.

The whole rebel fleet gets rekt by a space station and a pair of Star destroyers, and then finished off when the Dominator jumps in.

Aren't the only ships that get away are a Nebulon B and a transport? (And some snub fighters, of course)

I'm happy that Star Destroyers got made out to be actual threats, rather than Episode 5 and 6 saying that they are threats, and then being giant space putzes.

I think this is how the rating system works [i also posted this on another site]

Revenge of the sith: The 'best' of a bad lot
Empire strike back: The best of the original trilogy
Force awakens: [by default its going to win isnt it as its the only sequel film out at the moment]
Rogue one: Best stand alone film
Rebels: Best cartoon

Crap no body cares about nor wants to see again
Droids cartoon
Ewoks cartoon
Ewoks TV movies
Holiday special
Ewoks on ice

There was an Ewoks on ice show?....

Jesus wept.

ANH - 7/10
ESB - 10/10
RotJ - 5/10

Ep I - 0/10
Ep II - 1/10
Ep III - 2/10

The Force Awakens - 5/10
Rogue One - 4/10

My scores are based primarily on whether the movie told an interesting story with engaging characters who developed in meaningful ways. Production values, design, action set pieces are all secondary considerations for me.

I think Episode VIII will be the real test of Disney. I have no doubt that Disney can produce a good - or even great - SW movie. But they are going to have to let their creative people work on longer leashes.

Phantom Menace 2/10
Attack of the Clones 2/10
Revenge of the Sith 2/10
Rogue One 7/10
Star Wars 8/10
Empire Strikes Back 8/10
Return of the Jedi 8/10
Force Awakens 7/10

 Manchu wrote:
ANH - 7/10
ESB - 10/10
RotJ - 5/10

Ep I - 0/10
Ep II - 1/10
Ep III - 2/10

The Force Awakens - 5/10
Rogue One - 4/10

My scores are based primarily on whether the movie told an interesting story with engaging characters who developed in meaningful ways. Production values, design, action set pieces are all secondary considerations for me.

I think Episode VIII will be the real test of Disney. I have no doubt that Disney can produce a good - or even great - SW movie. But they are going to have to let their creative people work on longer leashes.

Quick! Have the First Order, acting in rage over the destruction of their sphere of death, strike out at Leia's new Resistance base hidden away on an ice planet. They could use giant walkers, or something.

Maybe ones with FIVE legs!

 Manchu wrote:
Maybe ones with FIVE legs!

...that can travel through hyperspace!


(The walker, not just the legs. That would be awkward...)




Finally got to see Rogue One last night. Not quite what I expected, and a little slow and jarring with all the jumping around at the start... but thoroughly enjoyable once it got going.

Glad I managed to remain mostly spoiler-free, as there were some nice surprises that would have been a shame to miss out on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matthew wrote:
Am I the only one who liked both Force Awakens and Rogue One?

Force Awakens did a great job of creating a new generation of heroes and making Han Solo pass down the torch.

I enjoyed the hell out of EpVII... but in the same way as I enjoy the prequels. They're fun, so long as you don't think about them too hard.

I don't care about the parallels to EpIV - recurring themes have always been a thing in Star Wars. The only real issues for me are the 'dial-it-up-to-11' pacing and Abrahms' apparent need to push things just that little bit too over the top. In the same way that teleporting across the galaxy was pushing things too far in Star Trek, Starkiller Base was bad not because it was 'just another Death Star' but because it was stupidly implausible, and did silly things that were poorly explained. 'Just another Death Star' but a little bigger and a little more powerful would have actually been preferable, IMO.



Talking about it last night, it struck me that the Force Awakens, while it looks like the Original Trilogy, feels like one of the Prequel films. While Rogue One definitely had more of the ESB-vibe going on.

TFA feels nothing like the prequels to me.

The prequels have a very distinctive look - almost every shot is flat, static, and squared relative to the frame, like paintings or maybe ad copy photos. They are almost like stage plays, kind of like movies from the 30s. There are no characters in the prequels, just props - some talk, others buzz or beep, still others remain blessedly silent. The foreground props are (sometimes) physical while the background props are (always) digital, and like proudly so. The lighting is painfully artificial/stylized throughout. Any shot that is not a close-up is cluttered like a Where's Waldo puzzle.

That said, TFA did not remind me of ANH or ESB in its direction; more like RotJ - which is not a criticism, mind. RotJ is a great-looking movie, just not as distinctive as ANH or iconic as ESB.

R1 looked like no other SW movie to me, and I think that was intentional. It did remind me a bit of the Force Unleashed video games, in terms of faded color and being underlit.

Not doing a good job explaining the interim between VI and VII is my biggest complaint. It was a fun movie that laid the groundwork (as safely as it could) for hopefully better films.

 Eldarain wrote:
Not doing a good job explaining the interim between VI and VII is my biggest complaint.

Looking at it solely as a movie, that's a valid complaint. From Disney's point of view, I think they were looking more at the universe and their retail offerings for it as a whole entity, and so the backstory didn't need to be fleshed out in the movie because you would be buying all of the books as they come out to fill in the gaps.


Which, of course, doesn't help the casual movie-goer who doesn't read the books.


On a related note - I just finished reading Aftermath. Didn't mind it, but it was really weird after several decades of the old EU. For some reason, I'm having much more trouble wrapping my head around the book stories being 'different' than I had with TFA. Maybe because with a movie it's so much easier to just switch off and go for the ride...

I'm reading Catalyst, at the moment.
Back story on Galen and Krennic and the setup for the death star.
I purged most of the EU stuff from my tablet (I scored an old kobo reader, and it still had a memory card in it, with the whole EU collection on it as well as a bunch of AGoT and Lotr stuff). Kept the Rogue/wraith squadron novels.

The only other novel I've read in the new continuity was "A new Dawn" - the Rebels tie in.

I've read Aftermath and Twilight Company.

I've also resolved to go back and revisit the classic EU, starting with Vector Prime (the first of the Yuuzhaan Vong saga).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
starting with Vector Prime (the first of the Yuuzhaan Vong saga).

Why? Are you being punished for something?

No, I actually enjoyed the Yuuzhaan Vong arc. Only read bits and pieces of it (like, two books) so might as well read the complete arc.