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 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
No, I actually enjoyed the Yuuzhaan Vong arc. Only read bits and pieces of it (like, two books) so might as well read the complete arc.

I enjoyed it as well. Sorry for you guys who hated it.

They're kinda like sentient Tyranids, right?

Not really. They're humanoid religious fanatics with biological 'technology' who venerate pain and regard machines as blasphemous.

While the actual writing was somewhat variable, it was an interesting story arc, if only because it was something different from the normal 'Evil warlord finds/builds/steals a superweapon. Chaos ensues' storyline that kept repeating itself throughout the EU.

I actually look more favorably at the Yuuzhaan Vong arc now than when it first came out, if only because what came after it was just a long line of boring and cliche (even by the standards of the EU). And what came next was even worse. At least with the Yuuzhaan Vong there was still some creativity going on.

I wholeheartedly agree! The Yuuzhan Vong were a very original idea for Star Wars, as they weren't the Empire all over again, and they weren't Sith either. They were a completely alien enemy. I wish they had made it into movies or video games, as I consider them one of my favorite things from the old EU (the Legends universe).

P.S. There were some Yuuzhan Vong miniatures in the Wizards of the Coast Star Wars miniatures game. They were terrible statwise, though, for the most part, but cool minis!

Yikes - startling rehabilitation going on here of one of the most infamous EU follies. Let's clarify that the EU had not "gotten into a rut" before the Vong showed up; rather, the EU itself was the rut that Star Wars had fallen into. The original EU only existed because of LFL's strategy of reviving/maintaining brand while earning licensing revenue. When Lucas unleashed the prequels on the world, the purpose of the EU shifted somewhat to inter-movie filler, which Disney has not only carried on but cranked up. The New Jedi Order project, and thus the Yuuzhan Vong, came about as part of this shift.

In short, the NJO series was to the world of SW novels and comics what the prequels were to the larger franchise: an embarrassing departure from the established "spirit" of the property. I firmly believe that bad creative decisions parody themselves and this was no exception: running exactly parallel to the series plot, SW as a brand was being invaded by something from outside of it, something completely alien. Even at the time, it struck me that the series editor was tacitly admiting there was nothing interesting left to do with the real SW.

Between this and the midi-chlorian fueled idiot bonanza that is Phantom Menance, my hitherto love of SW took a serious beating - briefly alleviated by KotOR (which would of course later be bled of all magic and wonder as a MMO). For fans a little younger than me, I guess they might look on th NJO series with nostalgia, just like they are more generous to the prequels. For me, these were "the dark times" Obi-wan warned us about ...

Here's a little titbit that I was unaware of.

Here's a fun fact: The climatic third act in "Rogue One: A Star Wars Story" that featured a lightsaber-wielding Darth Vader was added in reshoots.

One of the film's editors, John Gilroy, recently confirmed to Yahoo Movies that the fan-favorite scene was indeed reshot.

"What was added -- and it was a fantastic add -- was the Vader action scene, with him boarding the ship and dispatching all those rebel soldiers," said Gilroy. "That was something conceptualized a little later."

It was one of the film's biggest highlights, displaying the Sith Lord in all his weapon-wielding glory, using the dark side of the Force to swiftly kill numerous rebels.

Gilroy boasted that it improved the end product.

Hahahahaha of course.

I tried to read a couple of the NJO novels and gave up on them. Going through the list of published titles (270-odd) I'd read 24 of them.
(Also the "precocious jedi children" stories I just didn't bother with ... I don't like children at the best of times. )

On the plus side, I never had to read how chewie had a moon land on him. Sure, Wookiees should be hard to kill, but "drop a bigger elephant" isn't always the way to do it.

Admittedly, my "favourite" EU novels WERE written by gamers, though (Robert Stackpole was a gamer back then - as evidenced by his other work for "Battletech", too). Zahn's were the first to resurrect the property, but got a bit ... samey.

I watched Rogue One for the third time last night. It's very rare that I watch a film in the cinema more than once. I think the last time I did it was when Episode 1 was released. It got me thinking about why I think Rogue One is a much better film than Episode 7 and I thought I'd just ramble a bit about that.

The biggest issue with Episode 7 for me is that it's basically a remake of Episode 4. I appreciate that this was intentional, that doesn't make the film any better though. It's hard to judge it too closely without having seen Episodes 8 and 9, but as it stands at the moment I'm not sure it's a film that will stand the test of time on its own merits.

Episode 7 shows us what George Lucas could have done, but thankfully didn't do, with the prequels. Instead of following the formula of the Original Trilogy he gave us a fully realized galaxy-spanning Republic, with the political intrigue that came along with it. The fact that he didn't do this well is almost beside the point, at least he progressed and fleshed out the Star Wars Universe. I wouldn't have thought it possible but seeing Episode 7 (I've only seen it once mind you) actually made me appreciate the prequels a bit more.

If Episode 8 starts with the bad guys attacking the Alliance on an ice planet it's going to be very hard for me not to walk out of the cinema then and there...

While Rogue One did give a lot of nods to Episode 4, it did it to complement the film, not just shoveling something familiar at us in the hope that we'd eat it up. It did plenty of new things too, mainly with the whole tone and grittiness of the galaxy, and blurring the lines of what is right in the struggle between the Empire and the Alliance. In my view it balanced the need to be a prequel to 4 and the need to give us something new perfectly.

Rogue One is, in my mind, the best Star Wars film to come out since Empire Strikes Back (i.e. it's better than Return of the Jedi).

That's my take on it anyway. Rogue One seems to be a pretty divisive film so far, with some thinking as I do and others thinking that it's not as good as Episode 7.

I actually liked the concept of the Prequel trilogy, but the execution was poor.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I actually liked the concept of the Prequel trilogy, but the execution was poor.

I think the biggest reason the prequels failed is because lucas didn't had a brake, in ep. 4,5,6 there were budget restrictions, and it wasn't just a one man operation, i mean, one man that controls everything
from story to shooting, music, cinematography, it was much more a group effort. In the pre-quells it was like he was Louis the 14th surrounded by sychopants.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
I think the biggest reason the prequels failed is because lucas didn't had a brake, in ep. 4,5,6 there were budget restrictions, and it wasn't just a one man operation, i mean, one man that controls everything from story to shooting, music, cinematography, it was much more a group effort. In the pre-quells it was like he was Louis the 14th surrounded by sychopants.

That is exactly right. We had Ralph McQuarrie providing the conceptual art. Then there was Irvin Kershner directing Empire, with Leigh Brackett co-writing it with Lucas. Long story short, back then Lucas had a lot of studio oversight keeping him in check, and it really shows.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I actually liked the concept of the Prequel trilogy, but the execution was poor.

I agree. The sad thing is, there was a great story there. It was just told so badly.

I'll always wonder if Episode 7 was an inter-studio dare that Star Wars fans are rabid enough to pay for anything with the name on it, or at least desperate enough after all these years that they would snap anything up, even if it's just practically a rewrite.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'll always wonder if Episode 7 was an inter-studio dare that Star Wars fans are rabid enough to pay for anything with the name on it, or at least desperate enough after all these years that they would snap anything up, even if it's just practically a rewrite.

Or, you know, we could enjoy it. I just watched it for the third time on Friday night.

Rogue one was a good movie, was it perfect? Heck no but the direction it took was fresh and interesting for the star wars franchise. The movie itself seemed much darker and gritter than most of the main series of films really focusing on the "War" part of star wars (can I just say how much I like the way the rebels were portrayed, shown multiple times as doing anything if it helped there cause regardless of who might get hurt in the process) however for me the flaws of the movie came down to the main character and the GCI faces. Jyn Erso was an underused character, and any moments that she gained character came across as rushed and in truth actually quite boring, I personally feel they needed to either give her more screentime or much less, as it was she got ended up being rushed and underdeveloped, this bewilders me because some of the other cast managed to be very interesting characters without even getting much of a backstory.

Cassian for me was the stand out character from the film (Well him and K2), while he didn't get some huge backstory he did get moments that told you exactly what kind of person he was, on the whole the "troubled soldier" angle hasn't been used much in star wars, seeing Cassian admit that he has done many horrid things all in the name of ending the war really tugged my heartstrings somewhat.

But honestly the short review would be this: Hot damn that Vader fight! 8/10

Anyone else find it odd that most of the guys who are bashing E7 are the ones who love the NJO [and similar] novels. Those books would suck as films. They'd have all the problems of the prequels [annoying children, tedious table discussions and unfunny sidekicks] The last thing I want to see are film [or TV] adaptions of the Young Jedi Knights, Jedi Prince [that non-entity is crappier than the holiday special] and or any other boring novel in which one-dimensional characters with unpronounceable names sit at tables and shout exposition at each other about yet more super-weapons
I'm sorry if I sound mad, I have PTSD

For the new EU (NU-EU?), I have mixed feelings.

The Aftermath trilogy for instance. The story, and particular the charting of the rise of the New Republic, and Mon Mothma's philosophy is really really good. But, Chuck Wendig's prose is a little off-putting. I know it's not just me, as much of criticism (which has been comparatively gentle and constructive for nerds) say much the same thing - good plot, writing a bit jarring.

Bloodline however is superb.

So far as I'm aware, they're all currently hardback, and thus perhaps a bit price off-putting for nervous or casual readers. If you can get them on e-book however, or can borrow a copy, I would say give them a read, see what you think.

Biggest difference?

MDG - I agree with you RE: Mon Mothma and the captured Imperial fleet ... those ships were designed along the same lines as the Death Star - to overawe, subjugate, and preemptively demolish resistance. They are inherently symbols of tyranny.

I think TFA overall was more enjoyable than bad/boring but I do wish they had spent a bit more time - more than one quick cutaway shot of the doomed Senate - establishing what had happened since the Battle of Endor. We shouldn't have to read novels and comics or whatever to obtain the necessary exposition - although obviously Disney did not consider this stuff necessary, I guess.

I think they were too afraid of comparisons to the prequels on this score.

 Skymate wrote:
Anyone else find it odd that most of the guys who are bashing E7 are the ones who love the NJO [and similar] novels. Those books would suck as films. They'd have all the problems of the prequels [annoying children, tedious table discussions and unfunny sidekicks] The last thing I want to see are film [or TV] adaptions of the Young Jedi Knights, Jedi Prince [that non-entity is crappier than the holiday special] and or any other boring novel in which one-dimensional characters with unpronounceable names sit at tables and shout exposition at each other about yet more super-weapons
I'm sorry if I sound mad, I have PTSD

I don't have a lot of experience with the NJO so I can't judge it's overall quality, but not all good books make good movies and vis versa. Yes, some of the things that are used as metrics for books apply to movies, but a lot of things don't carry over. For example, I enjoyed Pacific Rim because of the special effects and awe-inspiring visuals. But I can't imagine any book based on the movie's story (even taking significant liberties with plot and detail) being very good at all. On the flip side The Hobbit is a good book, but one that is mainly intended as a children's story. Its chapters end at convenient stopping points, it's imaginative and evocative without needless complexity, it's dramatic without being intense, it's relatively short, and it wraps everything up in the end. These qualities are good in a book, but when the live-action movie trilogy was made significant changes were made to it as to appeal to movie-goers because the book's charms didn't translate well to a blockbuster. (And yes, I know about the animated Hobbit movie, but I'm talking about the live-action ones.) In addition books and movies are often held to different standards even in the same category, and that's okay. Most of the comedy movies I like are funnier than the majority of comedy books that I read, because they can use sound and speech in addition to writing for maximum effect.

TLDR: not all books would make movies that are on a similar level of quality as the book.

I liked NJO and episode 7. Am I damaged? Lol

No, you are just easy to please. From a corporate POV, the rest of us are the damaged ones. LOL

 Skymate wrote:
Anyone else find it odd that most of the guys who are bashing E7 are the ones who love the NJO [and similar] novels. Those books would suck as films. They'd have all the problems of the prequels [annoying children, tedious table discussions and unfunny sidekicks] The last thing I want to see are film [or TV] adaptions of the Young Jedi Knights, Jedi Prince [that non-entity is crappier than the holiday special] and or any other boring novel in which one-dimensional characters with unpronounceable names sit at tables and shout exposition at each other about yet more super-weapons
I'm sorry if I sound mad, I have PTSD

Except I/we are not advocating the direct adaptation of those books. This is a straw man.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I liked NJO and episode 7. Am I damaged? Lol

Episode 7, for all its faults, was a fun popcorn movie. The thing Abrams did right for that movie was putting the adventure back in and making it fun again. I even hold that view for his initial reboot of Star Trek.

It's everything else that I fault him for.

Should we repurpose this thread as a general Star Wars movie thread? I think we should.

And TFA was lots of fun, and brilliant to watch. The story was not great (I've come to realise that) but at least it wasn't at prequel levels.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I liked NJO and episode 7.

Me too...

I can't believe we didn't include Jar Jar- er, I mean Kylo Ren's review of Rogue One.

I was only underwhelmed by E7 because I have watched A New Hope so many times that I was kind of bummed to see it again, just with different characters. Rogue One was so much cooler!

Sigh....

Please tell me that's fake...