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Hi DA players, how do you use Deathwing if you want to make a Deathwing army? In particular I'm referring to the rule that says that if you don't have anything on the table at the end of any turn you lose the game, so you cannot have an entire army that teleports. So, what do you do if you want to make a Deathwing army? Thanks, Luke.

You use Dreads in Drop Pods.

Take a Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment.

you dont take them solo, you deploy them alongside a ravenwing strikeforce or a CAD

if your wanting pure deathwing then your best chances are to utilize both the deathwing strike force and the deathwing redemption force.

after you fill the requirements for the redemption force, just make sure you have enough points for a deathwing hq and at least 2 ven dreads in pods. this way you wont auto lose on first turn. however it is a gamble and you will have to take advantage of terrain to make sure you survive till turn 2 and bring in everything from the redemption force

I would say use a combo of raven wing and death wing.

This is a brief overview of my 1.5k wing list

Baliel
Deathwing term x4

Librarian on bike
Black Knights
Ravenwing bike squad

It's a gamble with the ravenwings because if you are going up against something's like tau, you gotta take the gamble with your jink, which is a 3+ but you want to take advantage of the take it to the enemy special rule, see strike the terms and then ask the enemy of they have a moment to talk about our lord and savior the emperor

Another interesting debate I have had on here, going to confirm with my GW store tomorrow, is the use of a dedicated LR

Deathwing can still take a dedicated LR and the debate was, does the LR over ride the summoned to war? Or do we get to deep strike a lr. Ultimately on here we ruled that if you take a LR as a DT for your Deathwing, you get to see strike it, so, land raider from no where with take it to the enemy so you get to run and shoot on entry

Had anyone has luck winning games?

Why not use a Ravenwing Support Squadron?

Luke wrote:
Hi DA players, how do you use Deathwing if you want to make a Deathwing army? In particular I'm referring to the rule that says that if you don't have anything on the table at the end of any turn you lose the game, so you cannot have an entire army that teleports. So, what do you do if you want to make a Deathwing army? Thanks, Luke.

If you want to play DW as they were intended to be played, you have to play Unbound. Deploy a couple dreads or a Land Raider on the table so there's less danger of "Ye Olde 1st Turn Auto-Lose." Honestly, if anyone thinks you're trying to game the system with an army of termies and dreads, they're probably not very smart.

i think the attack squadron gives Deathwing the bonus of not having to roll for reserves, if you are using the deathwing strike formation.

 the_Armyman wrote:
If you want to play DW as they were intended to be played, you have to play Unbound.

Disagree. If you want to play them according to the fluff, you include Ravenwing units to find the enemy before you call the Deathwing to the battlefield.

 Ghaz wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
If you want to play DW as they were intended to be played, you have to play Unbound.

Disagree. If you want to play them according to the fluff, you include Ravenwing units to find the enemy before you call the Deathwing to the battlefield.

Truth

 Ghaz wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
If you want to play DW as they were intended to be played, you have to play Unbound.

Disagree. If you want to play them according to the fluff, you include Ravenwing units to find the enemy before you call the Deathwing to the battlefield.

Funny how those who want to play pure Ravenwing aren't required to to drag any of the other companies along to their games. The Deathwing don't need the Ravenwing's permission, and there are plenty of battlefield situations where it makes zero sense for bikes or speeders to be involved.

I've run a list that was basically 50/50 Ravenwing and Deathwing. It wasn't the most competitive list ever, but it was FUN to play and wasn't horribly bad either. I definitely will be trying it again sometime.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
If you want to play DW as they were intended to be played, you have to play Unbound.

Disagree. If you want to play them according to the fluff, you include Ravenwing units to find the enemy before you call the Deathwing to the battlefield.

Funny how those who want to play pure Ravenwing aren't required to to drag any of the other companies along to their games. The Deathwing don't need the Ravenwing's permission, and there are plenty of battlefield situations where it makes zero sense for bikes or speeders to be involved.

Fluffwise? No. The Deathwing rarely take to the field by themselves. They're either used as normal Terminators in support of the Tacticals or en masse to bring in one of the Fallen that the Ravenwing has run to ground.

A pure Ravenwing army makes sense according to the fluff. A pure Deathwing force does not.

 racta wrote:
Had anyone has luck winning games?

lol no, nobodfy wins with deathwing you go in knowning you will lose much like with the orks back in 6th edition using their life supported 4th edition codex. its more of a matter of seeing hat will happen

 Ghaz wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
If you want to play DW as they were intended to be played, you have to play Unbound.

Disagree. If you want to play them according to the fluff, you include Ravenwing units to find the enemy before you call the Deathwing to the battlefield.

Funny how those who want to play pure Ravenwing aren't required to to drag any of the other companies along to their games. The Deathwing don't need the Ravenwing's permission, and there are plenty of battlefield situations where it makes zero sense for bikes or speeders to be involved.

Fluffwise? No. The Deathwing rarely take to the field by themselves. They're either used as normal Terminators in support of the Tacticals or en masse to bring in one of the Fallen that the Ravenwing has run to ground.

A pure Ravenwing army makes sense according to the fluff. A pure Deathwing force does not.

Using fluff to justify anything is ridiculous. GW doesn't know its own fluff and either contradicts it or overwrites it just for the sake of sales or their own ignorance. In a world of drop pods and formations that allow 1st turn DSing, there is no game reason why they took the ability away from the DW.

While the 6th edition codex does indeed state that the Deathwing and Ravenwing function in joint operations, they are mostly deployed in support of other battle companies.

However, it's not unheard of the Deathwing deploying in and of itself.

From the 6th edition codex:
673.M36 Siege of Dominus Prime
The Dark Angels and Angels of Vengeance both deploy their entire 1st Companies to end the five year deadlock against a rebel tyrant. Nigh on two hundred Terminators crack open the 'unassailable' fortress and massacre the traitors, save for those few who are taken to the Rock for questioning.

495.M35 The Deathwing Unleashed
Segmentum Pacificus is the centre of unrest and the Inner Circle continues to folow the many clues that have led them deep into the internecine fighting. Known to the Dark Angels as the Hrakon Campaign [...] Seeking that none escape, the Dark Angels blockade the planet and unleash he entire Deathwing. Deploying in sequential teleportations, the Terminators prosecure an epic slaughter until only a single foe is left alive [...] Obidiah is subdued after a duel with the Master of the Deathwing and is transported back to the Rock.

On page 44 "Most Dark Angels forces will include a Deathwing Terminator Squad or two, although on occasion the Company has deployed en masse - a cataclysmic event, as seen at the siege of Dominus Prime, or during the Hrakon campaign."

"Terminators typically begin their engagements onboard an orbiting starship, teleporting to the battlefield at a prearranged time, often homing in on a signal from ranging Ravenwing units."

Based on these writings, I don't really think that their fluff mandates that the Ravenwing be used before the arrival of the Deathwing - although it is often the case.

Whether in the fluff or not, its weird for GW to remove the ability to play full deathwing when it's previously been fine for all past editions.

One could argue that you could do it fine with unbound, and that it's the same thing except you don't gain the benefits of the formation. So maybe GW is indicating that the formation benefits are OK only if you take are forced to take something else or dreads in pods?

I can buy that. In fact a deathwing only unbound army really has no difference to a deathwing strike force only army, except you don't get the formation bonuses. And you can't play in tournaments (which isn't a GW problem, it's a playerbase problem).

Hmm, I think I'm on to something here.

No unbound most certainly is a GW problem.

How are tournaments supposed to allow unbound DW? That would be opening the floodgates for mass superheavy lists, lists composed entirely of Wraithknights, etc.

Their job was to make rules that allowed you to use DW within a formation, just like the previous 2 editions of the codex - they failed at this.

You can run 8 wraith knights legally, what's different about unbound?
Tournaments already put restrictions on what you can bring, so anything unbound with those restrictions is really not scary

In fact you're just trading tax vs special rules.
Formations give special rules or extra models to everything, how is that not more broken than unbound.

Just reminding people that you don't need unbound for Deathwing. You can use Dreads in Pods for one of their formations.

 TedNugent wrote:
No unbound most certainly is a GW problem.

How are tournaments supposed to allow unbound DW? That would be opening the floodgates for mass superheavy lists, lists composed entirely of Wraithknights, etc.

Their job was to make rules that allowed you to use DW within a formation, just like the previous 2 editions of the codex - they failed at this.

You can easily fit 5 Wraithknights with the Eldar decurion.
SOOOO 1-2 more Wraithknights is going to be an issue at that point?

TedNugent wrote:While the 6th edition codex does indeed state that the Deathwing and Ravenwing function in joint operations, they are mostly deployed in support of other battle companies.

However, it's not unheard of the Deathwing deploying in and of itself.

From the 6th edition codex:
673.M36 Siege of Dominus Prime
The Dark Angels and Angels of Vengeance both deploy their entire 1st Companies to end the five year deadlock against a rebel tyrant. Nigh on two hundred Terminators crack open the 'unassailable' fortress and massacre the traitors, save for those few who are taken to the Rock for questioning.

495.M35 The Deathwing Unleashed
Segmentum Pacificus is the centre of unrest and the Inner Circle continues to folow the many clues that have led them deep into the internecine fighting. Known to the Dark Angels as the Hrakon Campaign [...] Seeking that none escape, the Dark Angels blockade the planet and unleash he entire Deathwing. Deploying in sequential teleportations, the Terminators prosecure an epic slaughter until only a single foe is left alive [...] Obidiah is subdued after a duel with the Master of the Deathwing and is transported back to the Rock.

On page 44 "Most Dark Angels forces will include a Deathwing Terminator Squad or two, although on occasion the Company has deployed en masse - a cataclysmic event, as seen at the siege of Dominus Prime, or during the Hrakon campaign."

"Terminators typically begin their engagements onboard an orbiting starship, teleporting to the battlefield at a prearranged time, often homing in on a signal from ranging Ravenwing units."

Based on these writings, I don't really think that their fluff mandates that the Ravenwing be used before the arrival of the Deathwing - although it is often the case.

I don't see where any of those say it was ONLY the Deathwing which was fielded. Fielding the entire Deathwing does not preclude fielding other forces. Do you have an example where GW has stated that the Deathwing routinely operates on their own?

the_Armyman wrote:Using fluff to justify anything is ridiculous. GW doesn't know its own fluff and either contradicts it or overwrites it just for the sake of sales or their own ignorance. In a world of drop pods and formations that allow 1st turn DSing, there is no game reason why they took the ability away from the DW.

Absolutely false. The fluff is what is used to justify the rules and just because the rules now better match the fluff does not mean GW doesn't understand their own fluff.

Ridiculous. The game doesn't match the fluff at all. Furthermore, the fluff means nothing on the tabletop.

 Ghaz wrote:

I don't see where any of those say it was ONLY the Deathwing which was fielded. Fielding the entire Deathwing does not preclude fielding other forces. Do you have an example where GW has stated that the Deathwing routinely operates on their own?

It says that "Terminators typically begin their engagements onboard an orbiting starship, teleporting to the battlefield at a prearranged time, often homing in on a signal from ranging Ravenwing units."

Often literally means on frequent occasion, but not 100% of the time.

Where does it say that they don't EVER deploy on their own? Or that they can't?
In my feeling, if someone was going to say categorically that the Deathwing don't leave the ship without the Ravenwing sending a signal beacon, and say that precludes all use of Deathwing full stop, that would need a citation.

They had two editions where Deathwing could be used to field exclusive terminator lists for Dark Angels. That was deliberately changed. Obviously somebody had a problem with Deathwing, and I don't think it was with the authenticity of it when they have two events where the entire chapter strength Deathwing of 100 Terminators was deployed.

It doesn't really matter. Even if you don't want to go with the Dreadnought route, the Deathwing itself being better is worth the "tax" of other units.