Warmachine MK3 incoming

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**AlexHolker**

As a non-Warmachine player, the art style is still a killer. If different factions had their own takes on what the basic Warjack configuration was there might be one that I liked, but as is, if you hate one, you hate them all.

**gunslingerpro**

Dice Monkey wrote:
gunslingerpro wrote:
Colored plastic, tokens, and a mat?

Stepping their game up, clearly!

I am worried now that will be the same bendy plastic they use for their board games.

Simon has confirmed they are PVC.

**Blood Hawk**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Wasnt the last time someone used "play like you got a pair" as an excuse either against me. Not only that, but the
whole page 5 mentality is what pushed alot of my friends away.
The thing is. I like the game, even after selling my khador army. Its just the fact that people us the game to be an ass more frequently than I see in 40k is what I have seen.

I will give you that there is more of a competitive vibe from Warmachine and that may turn some people off. However 40k has whole other way for people to be an ass, and that is being a rules lawyer. The people I have meet while playing 40k that love arguing that their interpretation of some vague rule is the gospel truth.

Speaking for myself, I would rather face very competitive players then people who stop our game halfway through to get into a 20 min argument about syntax of a sentence in the rulebook for a game using plastic toy soldiers.

As far as the OP, I am really looking forward to this new edition and the new ret. caster.

**DarkTraveler777**

I stopped playing WM when MKII came out because I was pissed off how the revamp was handled, especially regarding Legends models that had previously been released only a few months prior to getting massive revisions for MKII.

Hearing that MKIII is on the horizon leaves me feeling ambivalent mostly. I'll check out the free rules but having not really played the game in 6 years (wow!) I don't know if I even care to come back. I still have my armies, so even if the new rules don't catch my interest hopefully the revisions will make the armies fun and playable and easier to sell/trade.

**ImAGeek**

Clanan wrote:The Trollbloods Box still does not have a beast in it.

WHY

It has three beasts in it, three lights.

Dice Monkey wrote:
gunslingerpro wrote:
Colored plastic, tokens, and a mat?

Stepping their game up, clearly!

I am worried now that will be the same bendy plastic they use for their board games.

I asked on the official forum, they're unassembled PVC like the last ones. I don't mind that for $40 with the other stuff in the box. Better deal than the last ones and they were okay anyway.

**tneva82**

Mildy curious. Used to play WM but eventually found the ethos behind it was way too different for my taste.

Sqorgar wrote:
- I'm hoping for some 3D terrain. Got sick of playing on the same flat fields with flat forests and slightly less flat hills. The problem wasn't just the economical propensities of the competitive players, but the game itself lacked rules for 3D movement and combat. I won one game by climbing a tower (on the field at my insistence) and my opponent complained that I cheated because there were no rules for that. Unfortunately, the fact that the beginner boxes come with flat terrain maps does not inspire confidence.

Oh yeah. Every time there's ropecon(big rpg/ccg/miniature/whatever event in finland) I try to go around looking at tournaments. While at FB/40k what I got sick and tired was monotive armies(to the point you see what army is on field you could fairly accurately predict army list...Without even really indepth knowledge of the armies!) what always bugged me in machine/hordes was how bare terrain wise tables looked! At least armies weren't as monotome but in return tables are!

- Warjacks! Come on man! If you are going to make a game called "Warmachine", at least make the Warmachines worth playing. I had one guy laugh at me when I put three jacks on the table. Throwing away points, he said.

Oh yeah. And people say machine needs less models. Plenty bigger machine armies than 40k armies out there! Okay so at least there's always at least one jack but that's because it's basically free...Wonder how many all infantry armies there would be without artificially "forcing" players to take them?

- More beginner friendly. Each model does like six different things, and has six different attributes on themselves and on their weapons, making it incredibly easy to forget rules while you are playing. Even beyond the combo-heavy nature of the game, there's just a lot to keep in your head about the units themselves. With like 7 or 8 factions and special rules for each faction, each unit, and each model, the game buckles under the weight of what you need to know simply to play a game.

Add to that what it is like if you can play once a month, if you are lucky! Good luck learning all the combos.

- Not a fan of the combo heavy aspects of the game. I feel that it makes the game too focused on only a few viable army compositions, often forcing you to buy models you don't like and don't want to finish up a combo possibility. It means you can't buy models you do like (like jacks) because they don't fit a specific combo. And it means that not only do new players have to wrestle with a thousand different abilities, attributes, special rules, and faction, they also have to wrestle with the dozen or so major combos for each faction and know the combo breaking tools needed to succeed against them.

My biggest beef. I don't like MTG styled combo game. Matter of taste I suppose.

But I get sad face when supposed core of factions army is representented by token unit if that. Why? No reason to take more than 1 unit because the combo that makes it good works only on one unit! If game is big enough you need more troops you better find another combo and use those instead. "Core" unit without that combo is a joke.

Also means there's no real bog standard unit like in FB you had empire spearmen, goblin infantry etc...

Well. WM3 won't fix everything(hahahahahaha at the idea. That would be way too radical update! Would likely piss off tons of existing players) but maybe it nudges a bit toward direction where I might find it good enough to restart again.

**highlord tamburlaine**

I'm... curious?

Irritated about the online pricing (as that's where I've gotten 95% of all my WMH stuff), but curious just how much the rules will change.

If the focus is put back on beasts and jacks, I'm in. Small battles as a standard with heavy stuff and no more than 6 to 10 guys per side? I'd be all over it.

I'm liking the new Troll and Mennite, but a bit eh about the rest of the boxes content.

Maybe now my Manowars can finally stomp across the field the way they always should have been able to, rather than get shown up by Winterguard chumps.

**RiTides**

Sqorgar wrote:
I'm... cautiously optimistic? You won't find a bigger Warmachine hater than me on these boards (or if you do, that guy's got problems), but a new edition has a chance to fix my massive problems with the game. Whether it will or not remains to be seen.

- Colored plastic is great. I played with a group that never painted their figures, and in fact rarely see painted Warmachine figures at all. Making the models have different colors will at the minimum make the battlefield easier to visually parse. Rather than a sea of silver, black, and gray, you'll be able to tell one army from another at a glance. It's a good solution to a weird problem.

- I'm hoping for some 3D terrain. Got sick of playing on the same flat fields with flat forests and slightly less flat hills. The problem wasn't just the economical propensities of the competitive players, but the game itself lacked rules for 3D movement and combat. I won one game by climbing a tower (on the field at my insistence) and my opponent complained that I cheated because there were no rules for that. Unfortunately, the fact that the beginner boxes come with flat terrain maps does not inspire confidence.

- Warjacks! Come on man! If you are going to make a game called "Warmachine", at least make the Warmachines worth playing. I had one guy laugh at me when I put three jacks on the table. Throwing away points, he said.

- More beginner friendly. Each model does like six different things, and has six different attributes on themselves and on their weapons, making it incredibly easy to forget rules while you are playing. Even beyond the combo-heavy nature of the game, there's just a lot to keep in your head about the units themselves. With like 7 or 8 factions and special rules for each faction, each unit, and each model, the game buckles under the weight of what you need to know simply to play a game.

- Not a fan of the combo heavy aspects of the game. I feel that it makes the game too focused on only a few viable army compositions, often forcing you to buy models you don't like and don't want to finish up a combo possibility. It means you can't buy models you do like (like jacks) because they don't fit a specific combo. And it means that not only do new players have to wrestle with a thousand different abilities, attributes, special rules, and faction, they also have to wrestle with the dozen or so major combos for each faction and know the combo breaking tools needed to succeed against them.

- The models need to get a lot fething better. After getting two All-in-One boxes, my opinion of the game and Privateer Press dropped like a rock. I loved the metal models I had, but holy crap, that resin-plastic stuff was/is terrible. I hear they are working on improving on it, so I hope they succeed by Mk3.

I think these are all legitimate criticisms of the current game (MK2). I will say, I started in MK2 and it wasn't nearly as "bad" at the start as it is now. So, hoping this reset does similar as that one did 6 years ago!

I have had the most fun playing 35 point games, mostly because it's faster. If they're streamlining the game, maybe non-tourney-players will be able to have a game in a true "skirmish" amount of time, even at 50 points. I'm hopeful, and definitely going to be doing a journeyman league locally to try out the new rules

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

My personal wish, as others have said, is likewise a less "combo" oriented game.

I want Warcaster choice to influence my play-style, and not expressly build my list for me.

Rebalancing everything should mean a fighting chance that every unit is viable in a list, vaguely suited to that style.

I just don't want another game where there is one absolute "right" list to build around a given model. If I make a melee minded grind list, I want it to work with lots of options, not just XYZ.

If they pull back the focus (pardon the fun), and make casters/locks more based on driving/fueling their jacks, maybe it means units will be able to do more work all on their own, as they really should be able to.

**Schmapdi**

Hah - as usual PP's site has taken a dump due to high traffic.

But I think this has been expected for a while now - people have been noticing on the PP boards that we had no knowledge of any releases past May, which is unusual.

I am a bit surprised (worried?) about the lack of a public beta test this time around. That seems like such a good idea of any big game revision.

And yay - more battleboxes, even cheaper than before will be a nice way for me to pad out my armies cheaply - which will kinda make up for the annoyance of having to buy so many cards again.

I hope they let you buy individual cards again from their webstore for a while. I have a lot of minis - but I really have just a few from EVERY faction. So I'd have to buy ALOT of card decks and get stuck with a TON of leftover cards for minis I don't have.

Like I have a decent amount of Khador and Trollblood minis - but basically every other faction I have the battlebox for, plus one or two minis maybe.

**Mr. Grey**

gunslingerpro wrote:
Dice Monkey wrote:
gunslingerpro wrote:
Colored plastic, tokens, and a mat?

Stepping their game up, clearly!

I am worried now that will be the same bendy plastic they use for their board games.

Simon has confirmed they are PVC.

UGH, whyyyyyyyyy. One of my biggest issue with PP's miniatures is that crappy plastic they're using - at least a few of the new jack kits are in GW-style hard plastic. I wouldn't have minded the starter boxes retailing for $55 or $60, as long as they were in decent materials.

**Polonius**

gunslingerpro wrote:
First downside, PPS Simon on there forum has stated War Room purchases will have to be made again. However, there will be a discount for people buying factions they already owned in MKII.

For some reason, that makes me irrationally annoyed. I don't know why, because I have no problem buying new cards or army books or rule books, but the thought of paying for a digital update just sticks in my craw. I'm stuck in the old economy.

**RiTides**

Argh, having to re-purchase War Room is going to be a bummer =/

**Thimn**

Well its discounted, so that is a nice bonus.

**Schmapdi**

Prolly in the minority on this but I really hope they redo the MERCs faction and make it work more like minions where it's just a couple of mini-factions. All that contract stuff is needlessly complicated.

Then hopefully we could get a few Merc/Minion battleboxes.

Other than that - I feel like my wishlist is mostly what everyone wants. Streamlining rules, less combo stacking, more warjacks/beasts on the field, decent terrain rules, making unit types like artillery useful, etc.

**MattofWar**

PVC. Ugh.

So far my plan is:

Wait until other people get the rules or they release them free online.
Try them.
If I like them get the faction deck for my Menoth
Continue to buy next to nothing as most of it is PVC crap.

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Is there going to be terrain for the game? The "two trees and a hill" setup was extremely off putting for a game. I want spectacle but it seems like terrain was frowned on and dispensed with.

**Thimn**

They are releasing the rules online for free, 2 weeks before the new edition launches.

**ImAGeek**

They only ever said WarRoom updates were free for that edition of the rules, to be fair:

'Full faction decks for both WARMACHINE and HORDES will be available as additional downloads for $6.99. Every deck will include all currently released stat cards for that faction as well as new model updates for the life of the current rules set.'
http://privateerpress.com/warroom

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Schmapdi wrote:
Prolly in the minority on this but I really hope they redo the MERCs faction and make it work more like minions where it's just a couple of mini-factions. All that contract stuff is needlessly complicated.

Then hopefully we could get a few Merc/Minion battleboxes.

Other than that - I feel like my wishlist is mostly what everyone wants. Streamlining rules, less combo stacking, more warjacks/beasts on the field, decent terrain rules, making unit types like artillery useful, etc.

The contracts are essentially the same as the minion pacts, there's just more crossover.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

ImAGeek wrote:
They only ever said WarRoom updates were free for that edition of the rules, to be fair:

'Full faction decks for both WARMACHINE and HORDES will be available as additional downloads for $6.99. Every deck will include all currently released stat cards for that faction as well as new model updates for the life of the current rules set.'
http://privateerpress.com/warroom

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Schmapdi wrote:
Prolly in the minority on this but I really hope they redo the MERCs faction and make it work more like minions where it's just a couple of mini-factions. All that contract stuff is needlessly complicated.

Then hopefully we could get a few Merc/Minion battleboxes.

Other than that - I feel like my wishlist is mostly what everyone wants. Streamlining rules, less combo stacking, more warjacks/beasts on the field, decent terrain rules, making unit types like artillery useful, etc.

The contracts are essentially the same as the minion pacts, there's just more crossover.

I keep hearing mixed messages. Someone elsewhere was saying they confirmed those of us with the "everything bundles" from way back when, WOULD be getting War-room upgraded to Mk3 for free.

Anyone else found that?

**MLaw**

Wow, so everyone that was upset with PP is suddenly back in their camp?
On principles alone I'm going to give it a pass. Let alone the frustration of needing to repurchase things tentatively. I suppose I need to figure out if there's a good secondary market for all my old metals.

**Laughing Man**

Regarding War Room:
War Room has undergone a tremendous amount of new development on the back end as well as adding new features. This is a new edition of WARMACHINE and HORDES with all new decks, and just as you’ll need new faction decks for your army, you’ll need new faction packs in War Room. In consideration of existing players who have used War Room in the past, there will be a discount for faction decks that you have previously purchased. As well, players who purchased a WARMACHINE or HORDES Mk II deck after January 1st, 2016, will receive the new edition equivalents free of charge.

Haven't finished trawling the PP thread yet, but there's that at least.

**ImAGeek**

MLaw wrote:
Wow, so everyone that was upset with PP is suddenly back in their camp?
On principles alone I'm going to give it a pass. Let alone the frustration of needing to repurchase things tentatively. I suppose I need to figure out if there's a good secondary market for all my old metals.

You're assuming that everyone who was unhappy are the same people who are happy now.

**overtyrant**

Love the game but I've always hated the caster kill = auto win aspect of the game.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

keezus wrote:
Pipboy101 wrote:
Does this mean that my woodsmen might be a good unit for once?

Never mind about that... My Man O Wars stand ready!

My sluggers! My sluggers all covered in hot cheese juice!

**welshhoppo**

overtyrant wrote:
Love the game but I've always hated the caster kill = auto win aspect of the game.

It's almost like losing a one in a million wizard has a negative effect on your forces......

Actually, a you can have a few game modes where it does not equal game over.

**gunslingerpro**

Things I'm hearing on my local FB group from a guy listening to primecast:

-Casters getting a lot more free jack points
-point scale has been doubles (i.e. 2 point solo is now 4 points, if I'm understanding correctly)
-pre-measure is a go.

**ImAGeek**

I know quite a few people wanted the points scale double, to increase the granularity of points costs.

**Schmapdi**

Love the doubling of the point scale. Too many things that were 1,2,3 points were costed off but couldn't be increased or decreased really without making them OP/UP.

**gunslingerpro**

ImAGeek wrote:
I know quite a few people wanted the points scale double, to increase the granularity of points costs.

Yeah definitely seems as though they're addressing the most common complaints people have brought up.