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God damn PP, before from their announcement to punish retailers for discounting their products had made put me off getting into the game but now the new battleboxes have me excited again.
Guess I will just wait and see what happens when its released.

Ah so, the point emerges. Going to be interesting to see if PP can address the flaws of their product and will they finally resort to retiring models or will the product range just continue to grow and the metagame spin off into an ever thickening pile of combos.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Ah so, the point emerges. Going to be interesting to see if PP can address the flaws of their product and will they finally resort to retiring models or will the product range just continue to grow and the metagame spin off into an ever thickening pile of combos.

They've no intention of retiring anything. Everything will have new stat cards.

Also apparently the flee test are gone. At least Fear and Terror are both confirmed gone.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Also apparently the flee test are gone. At least Fear and Terror are both confirmed gone.

That's a shame. Sometimes something terrifying should definitely make infantry run.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Also apparently the flee test are gone. At least Fear and Terror are both confirmed gone.

Interesting. I always felt that Morale was a weak point of the game.

FWIW, my other main philosophical beef with Wm/H is how swingy tough checks can be on the game.

 Carnikang wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Also apparently the flee test are gone. At least Fear and Terror are both confirmed gone.

That's a shame. Sometimes something terrifying should definitely make infantry run.

The reasoning given was that having a single dice roll invalidate a whole unit of ten models that the player had to assemble and paint and everything, before they got to do anything, was unfun (and that we are playing heroes, goddamit!)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Carnikang wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Also apparently the flee test are gone. At least Fear and Terror are both confirmed gone.

That's a shame. Sometimes something terrifying should definitely make infantry run.

The reasoning given was that having a single dice roll invalidate a whole unit of ten models that the player had to assemble and paint and everything, before they got to do anything, was unfun (and that we are playing heroes, goddamit!)

I can get behind that.

Every model ever made for the games was redesigned, rebalanced, and updated to a revised set of rules

No plastic, no purchase.

And by plastic, I mean REAL plastic not that PVC or restic crap.

 gunslingerpro wrote:
Things I'm hearing on my local FB group from a guy listening to primecast:

-Casters getting a lot more free jack points
-point scale has been doubles (i.e. 2 point solo is now 4 points, if I'm understanding correctly)
-pre-measure is a go.

Jacks also get 1 free focus for simply being in their caster's control area
Something about Warlock's fury increasing (or still being able to get fury) when their warbeasts die.

2 year timeskip in the background too. Also appears Leto is dead (or not ruling Cygnar at least).

Apparently there are tons of spoilers in the PP Primecast here:

http://privateerpress.com/primecast/primecast-episode-30

Some that my friend pulled out:

- Point values are doubling (average game 100 points, but the number of models remains the same)
- Most casters will have 28 - 30 warjack / warbeast points!
- Pre-measuring is confirmed (thank goodness - less arguments!)
- Auto-focus for warjacks for being in warcaster's control area
- 1 free fury per dead beast for warlocks?

Need to listen to it myself to confirm, but sounds great so far!

New Hordes faction being teased at this Lock and Load, released next L&L.

Copy / paste this time (from Faultie, not sure if it's his original text though):

Full model rebalance
Point scale increased. 50 -> 100 to allow more nuance in point cost (*same number of models roughly*)
All Warjacks start with a free focus for being in their warcasters control every turn.
'Spirit Bond' allows warlocks *some* fury as their beasts die.
Far more WarJack/Beast points!
Some huge bases were too conservative in rules.
#** UNIVERSAL PREMEASURING**
No fear, no terror
Huge base changes: To feel like 'the monsters of battle'.

Fluff changes.....
More novels, fluff moved more heavily towards Skull Island Expeditions.
2 year time jump
'Rulership change in Cygnar'
"No favorite character is safe." "We've taken off the safety net"

#**5th Hordes Faction previewed at Lock and Load 2016, for sale at L&L2017**

There will be lead ups for each faction in terms of what changed

It is exciting news for a non PP player. My biggest issue are the models; very hit or miss. Some of the new models look pretty decent. I am cautiously optimistic.

 RiTides wrote:
Apparently there are tons of spoilers in the PP Primecast here:

http://privateerpress.com/primecast/primecast-episode-30

Some that my friend pulled out:

- Point values are doubling (average game 100 points, but the number of models remains the same)
- Most casters will have 28 - 30 warjack / warbeast points!

If a warcaster received that many 'jack points wouldn't that essentially make most battlegroups free? Warjacks were falling in the 5-12 point range for MKII, even accounting for the doubling of points values that is what? 2-3 "free" 'jacks on the table.

I am curious if that change is meant to help the game or if it is meant to simply enlarge army model counts and sell more models.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Apparently there are tons of spoilers in the PP Primecast here:

http://privateerpress.com/primecast/primecast-episode-30

Some that my friend pulled out:

- Point values are doubling (average game 100 points, but the number of models remains the same)
- Most casters will have 28 - 30 warjack / warbeast points!

If a warcaster received that many 'jack points wouldn't that essentially make most battlegroups free? Warjacks were falling in the 5-12 point range for MKII, even accounting for the doubling of points values that is what? 2-3 "free" 'jacks on the table.

I am curious if that change is meant to help the game or if it is meant to simply enlarge army model counts and sell more models.

Yes that is exactly what is happening. All of the new battleboxes are essentially 0pts when you factor in the jack/beast points. They've been specifically designed that way.

Soo, your going to now need more stuff for armies now?

Uh, I was hesitantly interested, but it sounds like a bunch of tweaks and not the necessary overhaul. Think I'll pass.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Soo, your going to now need more stuff for armies now?

One or two more models, being warjacks. The doubling of points mostly just allows more granularity.

Link to Prime Cast: http://privateerpress.com/primecast/primecast-episode-30

(New to DakkaDakka - Was in Tokyo for 5 years and had to give up the hobby. Just got back in and bought $300 of Farrow last week)

Here are my notes with Timestamps

(04:50) Warcasters Gain "Power up" - Each Warjack inside its casters control range gains 1 focus point during the CTRL phase.

(5:10) Warlocks gain "Spirit Bond Mechanic" - As warbeasts die, warlocks can gain additional fury from warbeasts they've lost in the control phase.

(5:52) Lock/Caster bonus points being upped from 6 or 7 to 20-30.

As a result, all the new Battleboxes created for Mk3 have been designed to be exactly 0 Points out of the box.

(11:12) Pre-Measuring Now allowed in game

"We've touched on a lot of big changes before... but measuring is something that's going to be a change for people. But what was one of the reasons behind adding Pre-measuring to the game?
It's easier and ultimately already exists"

(13:21) - Fear and Terror removed from game

"The psychology is gone. There's no more fear, theres no more terror. No longer is your entire unit going to be completely useless inside a game due to one single die roll"

(15:00) Discuss changes to Large based models (Colassals etc) nothing concrete.

(17:00) Changes to lore and timeline for story and anthology books.

(18:45) Cygnar Battlebox caster is Maj Beth Maddox (sp?) also Cygnar leadership is changing.

(22:00) Some characters in Lore may "no longer be around" - Brace yourself for Character deaths in books.

(24:30) New products will be available at Lock & Load Sat Evening after Keynote Presentation

(25:30-27:30) New products will be available for pre-sell at Lock & Load '16. You can go over to the store and make a purchase and then they will distribute products at stations later on. The goal here is to not force people to be in line for 10 hours.

(28:40) New hordes faction will be announced at Lock & Load and released around Lock & Load 2017.
"Utterly and completely unlike anything we have ever done. The only rule has been "There is nothing that is too weird to put into this faction"

Cool beans. Maybe the 120ish points worth of Skorne I got with my tax refund will be ready by then. As long as they don't mess with Zaal2's theme army, I'll be a happy dude.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Soo, your going to now need more stuff for armies now?

No.

If they're increasing the granularity of point costs by doubling them and thus doubling the standard game size (so 35/50 becomes presumably 70/100) everything remains roughly the same.

Some things are not going to be literally double their cost. The specific example they used was a Juggernaut vs Conquest. Conquest will cost 4 times as much as a Jugger and will also be as powerful to match. Currently you can get almost 3 Juggers for the cost of 1 Conquest and the 3 Juggers can easily scrap that. The increase in granularity will help address this.

I might consider coming back then.
MIGHT.

I'm glad they conceded that they were too careful with Colossals/Gargantuans. I still can't believe I bought the wife an Archangel, and what a terrible, worthless model it ended up being. :-p

So far, no talk about the game even slightly pulling back from combo-mania, which is disappointing. My number one reason for disliking the game really did stem from how specific lists had to be to be "decent". Player needed to begin their turn, activate several specific units, in a specific order, to carry out essentially the one function a different unit would then fulfill. At that point you had either answered your opponents list/unit or you didn't.

I always feel like Warmahordes is a game with too few correct answers, and essentially is unplayable if you try to just take "ok" answers.

Character death? I hope more than Cryx suffers character losses. Gosh that was such an annoyance for me with the earlier fiction.

 RiTides wrote:

- Pre-measuring is confirmed (thank goodness - less arguments!)

Oh man, I know a WM/H guy who loathes premeasuring and said he never touched 40k after pre-measuring was introduced...his head is going to explode.

 Breotan wrote:

Every model ever made for the games was redesigned, rebalanced, and updated to a revised set of rules

No plastic, no purchase.

And by plastic, I mean REAL plastic not that PVC or restic crap.

I think the same. They could use this chance and put real plastic models in the Sets

but no - still PVC trash.

So is this their boardgame PVC or the same product as their current 'plastic' sets?

It's a good game that quickly becomes unpleasant if everyone you play against isn't on the same competitive page.

Perfect timing, as my yearly thinking of "God, I've got most of a Cygnar army just sitting around..." hits me.

 plastictrees wrote:
So is this their boardgame PVC or the same product as their current 'plastic' sets?

They've been described as "unassembled" which would imply the latter.