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I am new to the lotr strategy battle game and I'm in the process of painting a Mordor orcs army.
I've been mulling over what kind of Orcs the Mordor orcs models are supposed to represent?

As far as I know the hierarchy goes (correct me if I'm wrong) -

*Snaga (slave orcs little to no equipment)

*Moria and other Goblins/Orcs
(Likely smaller than Snaga but better equipped and more adept to fighting)

*Morgul Orcs
(From minas morgul, technically not mordor orcs? Bred for/by and under the command of the Witch King. Good weapons and armour, skilled fighters)

*Morannon Orcs
(Also known as "Black Orcs", Bred at the Black gate, better equipped, better trained and smarter than Morgul Orcs)

*Uruks
(Roided up Orcs on meth with ace equipment)

*Uruk-hai
(Isenguard's shake and bake human crossbreed version of Uruk's)

*Barad-Dur Guard Uruks
(Elite roided up Orcs on meth with ace equipment)

Is this kit supposed to represent some kind of common mordor orc in some ways equivalent to Morgul orcs as well as act as a counts as Morgul or am I missing something here?

AFAIK, "snaga" is a word for "slave" and is used by orcs to address orcs smaller than them (thus forced to serve them).

In the Two Towers, we know that there are three kind of orcs so different that the "good" observers can distinguish them: Misty Mountain ones, smaller and more cowardly; mordor orcs, bigger, and the almost man height uruk-hai.
Tolkien does not give many details as we wished for the orcs, but we know that there were many subraces of orcs that were so separated one from the other that had to speak some common language to understand each other.

As far as the game goes:

- Moria Goblin: they can represent the orcs in Moria (duh) and many of the misty mountain ones. You have the common swarm ones, the ones with two handed weapons and the Gundabad Blackshield representing the orcs of Gundabad.

- Mordor Orcs (the kit): common mordor orcs you find in minas morgul, barad-dur, and some of these served Saruman as well, I think.

- Morannon Orcs: as mordor ones, but read morannon as "biggest of their kind, better fed and better equipped".

- Mordor Uruk-hai: uruk hai were bred in Minas Morgul. Saruman then bred his own. He bred other creatures as well, like these Men-orcs and Goblin-men that could possibly not be the same, as uruk-hai (or between themselves). AFAIK, Uruk and Uruk-hai are interchangeable. You could even use Morannon as allies in an isengard force to represent the Man-orcs of the White Hand. I don't remember the word "black orc" in books or movies, but correct me if I am wrong.

The Black Guard of Barad-Dur is just Matt Ward Mattwarding.

In the books, the Misty Mountains ones were the weakest and were essentially ignored by the others. Stronger were the Mordor ones, then the Uruk-hai. I would put the morannons one step lower than the Uruk-hais because might makes right. Uruk-hai should be top tier.

Edit: I forgot to point out the kit

Yes, those are the not-misty mountain not-morannon ones. Are the generic, mordor, minas morgul, and last alliance common orcs. There are metal versions from the first versions of the game.

 Agondrae wrote:
I've been mulling over what kind of Orcs the Mordor orcs models are supposed to represent?

They represent the common foot soldiers of Sauron's army, both in the Second and Third Ages.

My own theory is that Sauron would have preferred to build an army comprised of heavy infantry because he had been defeated by such a force in the War of the Last Alliance. But the finding of the Ring and the revelation of an heir of Isildur forced him to speed up his plans and once again take quantity over quality. So the Morannon Orcs are a bit better equipped, being - as the name implies - Sauron's first line of defense, while his tower guard are some of the heaviest infantry in the game.

In the movies the troops that march from Minas Morgul are named Morannon orcs in GW's rulebooks but Morannon actually means the black gate area. I think black orcs mean black uruks of Mordor as opposed to Saruman's uruks which are, however, black too. Uruks are just a shortened name for uruk-hai.

In the books the term uruk-hai pretty much just means the fighting soldier orcs which are the tallest of their kind at around dwarf-short man size.

Not just any orc rabble could successfully siege Minas Tirith, that's why Sauron probably wanted better troops to fight alongside evil humans. Sauron needed intelligent orcs to use siege weaponry and build bridges etc. I think it has little to do with Sauron's previous defeat.

Going by Tolkien's own ruminations (published in Morgoth's Ring) orcs are quite intelligent - but they require a strong will to direct them (to the point where many just wandered aimlessly after the banishment of Morgoth).

When you look back to the end of the Second Age, the War of the Last Alliance was disastrous for Sauron. Man and Elf breached the Morannon and laid siege to the Barad-dûr for years before Sauron himself came forth in desperation and was immediately defeated.

The Last Alliance won a clear military victory over the power of Mordor in the Second Age. Sauron would certainly have drawn military lessons from this defeat.

Okay that clears things up a bit.
Seems some of the known orc breeds are a bit ambiguous, so I guess the kit has its place.

I'm hoping now that GW is refocusing their efforts on the game that we see some more diversified Orc kits come out, I'd really like to see more scope for building unique models in the kits.

 Agondrae wrote:
Okay that clears things up a bit.
Seems some of the known orc breeds are a bit ambiguous, so I guess the kit has its place.

I'm hoping now that GW is refocusing their efforts on the game that we see some more diversified Orc kits come out, I'd really like to see more scope for building unique models in the kits.

While I agree in principle, we are rather spoiled for choice when it comes to different types of orc models.

Moria Orcs/goblins, plastic
Misty Mountain goblins, plastic
"Generic" Orcs, plastic
Isengard Uruk-Hai, plastic
Morannon orcs, plastic
Gundabad "Hunter" orcs, plastic

Generic Orcs on Wargs
Gundabad "Hunter" orcs on Gundabad Wargs, plastic

Mordor Uruks, metal
Gundabad Heavy Orcs, finecast
Barad-Dur Orcs, finecast

Some Dol Guldur orcs would be nice, but we really do have a ton of Orc types available.

 Agondrae wrote:
I'm hoping now that GW is refocusing their efforts on the game that we see some more diversified Orc kits come out, I'd really like to see more scope for building unique models in the kits.

Please, no. I know I'm not alone in hating excessively multipart figures. I don't want to have to put together 10-12 part orcs. I'm really very happy with the variety we get in the current plastic orc sets.

 judgedoug wrote:
While I agree in principle, we are rather spoiled for choice when it comes to different types of orc models.

You missed a few, JD. IIRC these were all originally metal, although some or all may all be currently OOP? Even is so, they would be easy enough to rerelease.

Morgul Stalkers (Mordor)
Orc Trackers (Mordor)
Gundabad Black Shields (Moria)
Goblin Prowlers (Moria)

In any case, we do have a wide variety of orc miniatures already.

Some Dol Guldur orcs would be nice, but we really do have a ton of Orc types available.

While I would never say no to some new plastics, we are already using the "Mordor" orc plastics for generic orcs from Mordor, Isenguard, and Angmar, so I'd have no problem using them for Dol Guldur, too. Of course, I've already got over 100 of them so maybe I'm biased.

 mdauben wrote:

 Agondrae wrote:
I'm hoping now that GW is refocusing their efforts on the game that we see some more diversified Orc kits come out, I'd really like to see more scope for building unique models in the kits.

Please, no. I know I'm not alone in hating excessively multipart figures. I don't want to have to put together 10-12 part orcs. I'm really very happy with the variety we get in the current plastic orc sets.

There is a middle way between 2-part and 12-part Orcs you know... I think 4-part Orcs would be great. Torso, 2 arms, head. Still quick to put together but a lot more variety in poses possible than with current sets.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

There is a middle way between 2-part and 12-part Orcs you know... I think 4-part Orcs would be great. Torso, 2 arms, head. Still quick to put together but a lot more variety in poses possible than with current sets.

Nah, I disagree. One of the things I love about LOTR models is the fluid poses. The moment you introduce modular arms and such, you lose fluidity. For true 28's, I'd rather have a good single pose sculpt, times twelve.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
There is a middle way between 2-part and 12-part Orcs you know... I think 4-part Orcs would be great. Torso, 2 arms, head. Still quick to put together but a lot more variety in poses possible than with current sets.

I certainly don't want to come across as saying what you want is wrong, but I admit I never really "got" the idea that every model had to be totally unique. The current Mordor Orc plastics give you twelve unique poses which always seemed plenty for me. Even if I want to field more than 12 Mordor Orcs in one list, I tend to paint them all different (different skin color, different clothing color, etc.) so it doesn't look very repetitious.

Now, the limited poses of the figures that are currently only available as metal or finecast are a different issue. I'd love to see them release a plastic kit for the Gundabad Orcs from BOFA or for the Mordor Uruk-hai from LOTR with more poses or even posable figures.

Still, I remember playing 40K back when there were usually only 3-4 unique monopose miniatures for a particular troop type so maybe my expectations are just set lower?

 mdauben wrote:
You missed a few, JD. IIRC these were all originally metal, although some or all may all be currently OOP? Even is so, they would be easy enough to rerelease.

Morgul Stalkers (Mordor)
Orc Trackers (Mordor)
Gundabad Black Shields (Moria)
Goblin Prowlers (Moria)

In any case, we do have a wide variety of orc miniatures already.

Ah true, and I forgot my own favorite, the plastic Isengard Uruk-Hai Scouts!

 mdauben wrote:

Some Dol Guldur orcs would be nice, but we really do have a ton of Orc types available.

While I would never say no to some new plastics, we are already using the "Mordor" orc plastics for generic orcs from Mordor, Isenguard, and Angmar, so I'd have no problem using them for Dol Guldur, too. Of course, I've already got over 100 of them so maybe I'm biased.

Dol Guldur orcs from the Hobbit films. There was a difference between the Gundabad heavy infantry and Dol Guldur heavy infantry.

So orc "type" list

Generic
Mordor Orcs, plastic
Orcs on Wild Wargs, plastic
Mordor Uruk-Hai , metal
Orc Trackers, metal

Barad-Dur
Black Guard of Barad-Dur orcs, finecast

Moria
Moria Orcs/goblins, plastic
Moria/Gundabad Blackshields, finecast
Moria Goblin Prowlers, metal

Misty Mountains
Misty Mountain goblins, plastic

Gundabad
Gundabad "Hunter" orcs, plastic
Gundabad "Hunter" orcs on Gundabad Wargs, plastic
Gundabad Heavy Orcs, finecast

Morannon
Morannon orcs, plastic

Isengard
Isengard Uruk-Hai Warriors, plastic
Isengard Uruk-Hai Scouts, plastic
Isengard Uruk-Hai Berserkers, Crossbowmen; finecast

Minas Morgul
Morgul Stalkers, metal, out of production

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 mdauben wrote:

 Agondrae wrote:
I'm hoping now that GW is refocusing their efforts on the game that we see some more diversified Orc kits come out, I'd really like to see more scope for building unique models in the kits.

Please, no. I know I'm not alone in hating excessively multipart figures. I don't want to have to put together 10-12 part orcs. I'm really very happy with the variety we get in the current plastic orc sets.

There is a middle way between 2-part and 12-part Orcs you know... I think 4-part Orcs would be great. Torso, 2 arms, head. Still quick to put together but a lot more variety in poses possible than with current sets.

This is more what I'm getting at here, I'm well aware of the variety of kits out there as at this point I'm kit bashing a lot of these for my Mordor Orcs.

The heads, weapons and shields and the bow poses need to be diversified for the Mordor Orcs kit, particularly the bow poses (you get x2 poses that more or less look exactly the same).
I think the Hunter Orcs kit that was released for The Hobbit line was close to being bang on the mark with how the contents of these kits should be structured. It has a fantastic variety, despite the limited weapon appearance.

I guess the key reason for this desire is why I'm so attracted to building an orcs army.
Unlike say Gondor knights or Elves, the Orcs are so diverse and haphazard in their appearance and armament and I feel that each kit type should more fully reflect that.
It doesn't necessarily mean we need figures with an excessive number of parts, I think Iron_Captain's Idea would work great, couple it with an extra sprue that has alternate single handers, two handers, shields, spears & such and I'd be happy.

Yeah the 2 orcs with bows are the same pose, one just has a helmet.
Kit kinda needed 4 bows though, i was lucky that i managed to pick up a bunch of 2nd hand lots of them with lik 50% bows, as I use them as my main source of bows in my isengard army.

methebest wrote:
Yeah the 2 orcs with bows are the same pose, one just has a helmet.
Kit kinda needed 4 bows though, i was lucky that i managed to pick up a bunch of 2nd hand lots of them with lik 50% bows, as I use them as my main source of bows in my isengard army.

If you ever consider painting up some new ones to make them look a bit different go the Hunter orcs kit. Heaps of bows, awesome poses and with a bit of green stuff and a suitable paint job easy as to blend in with the rest of the unit.

methebest wrote:
Yeah the 2 orcs with bows are the same pose, one just has a helmet.
Kit kinda needed 4 bows though, i was lucky that i managed to pick up a bunch of 2nd hand lots of them with lik 50% bows, as I use them as my main source of bows in my isengard army.

Yeah, totally agree. When I had the opportunity to pick up each of the metal Mordor bow sculpts, I grabbed them immediately.

I feel with a little bit of clipping one could mix and match the Mordor and Morannon orc kit - and probably even the Corsairs and Easterlings kit for bows variations.