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 jmurph wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
For some reason, I find myself agreeing with Skip Bayliss on something...

A few evenings ago, he and Shannon Sharpe were talking about NFL ratings/viewership being down.... While Skip denied that there's such thing as "too much" football, Shannon definitely was blaming the on-field quality of play, especially on Thursday Night games, on "too much football"... Regardless, both agreed that viewership was down because quality was down, the games simply haven't been all that good.

This was severely highlighted in last night's primetime game.... Seattle and AZ seemed to both not want to win, and while I expected a close game between division rivals, I expected better overall play. I also watched the Vikings game, which was terrible. The Steelers/Pats game wasn't much better to watch either... I think that something has got to change, and probably needs to change soon.

I think it is two related factors at play. By increasing the number of games in the season, players get less recuperation so injuries and fatigue become a bigger issue. Don't forget that travel takes its toll as well. Second, they are oversaturating their target market. If you flood the air with football, people, especially casual fans, are going to get tired of it and be less interested in catching games overall. If teams are playing at a lower caliber due to the first issue, it will amplify the effect. I think the NFL has overestimated their growth potential and are now reaching a saturation point.

I'm not sure I'd buy that...

I think the NFL's decline is more due to the fact that:
-rules are obviously applied inconsistently
-what's a catch?
-Tuck rule
-Burial of Spygate
-Over reaction to Deflategate
-No fun league (meaning, no fun celebration in endzone)
-from STL perspective, the city was unfairly trashed
-SJW-isms.
-NFL being paid to "honor" US military and vets
-ubiquitous of alternative meda to watch the game

The league needs a leadership overhaul, and a true fething PR team to protect their brand.

Stay away from the social hot topic of the day, and simply play the damn game.

Well, Broncos are finally back to looking like a real team. Still some slip ups to work out, but overall a solid win versus the $72 million dollar man

Goddam Texans: After Osweiler goes 22-41, 131 yds, there are now 2 active QBs w/ a game of 40+ atts & < 150 yds. The other is his teammate Brandon Weeden

Picks for this week....

Kronk, given how mediocre the Jags run def is, and how good the Texans Run Off is.
Texans don't really need to rely on the QB in this one.

NYG catch a break by having this week off.

Washington at Cincy
Somehow, we get the #6 and #5 Offenses facing each other.
This one will come down to Defense, but they are fairly even there too. Should be an exciting game.
Still picking Bengals to win though.

Sunday Night Philadelphia at Dallas.
History kind of favors Eagles as the have won the last three in Dallas, Dallas has won the last three in Philly.
This is the #3 offense vs the #5 Def.
I'm betting on special teams to keep this one close, But I am favoring Eagles in a close one.... maybe down to the wire.

What? I'm an Eagles fan. There is no way I can pick The Other Team.

That Seattle offensive line needs to get their act together.

So happy to see my Panthers absolutely thump someone from start to finish. Looks like the bye really helped them out.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
So happy to see my Panthers absolutely thump someone from start to finish. Looks like the bye really helped them out.

So happy to see your Panthers give the Cardinals a L, meaning the Seahawks keep their lead in the division despite that debacle of a loss to the refs.

To be honest I was hoping they'd beat the Saints. Same with the Packers against the Falcons. Fortunately we get the Rams next.

 Peregrine wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
So happy to see my Panthers absolutely thump someone from start to finish. Looks like the bye really helped them out.

So happy to see your Panthers give the Cardinals a L, meaning the Seahawks keep their lead in the division despite that debacle of a loss to the refs.

Seahawks fans have sunk to ref-blaming?!?

The shame...

 Alpharius wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
So happy to see my Panthers absolutely thump someone from start to finish. Looks like the bye really helped them out.

So happy to see your Panthers give the Cardinals a L, meaning the Seahawks keep their lead in the division despite that debacle of a loss to the refs.

Seahawks fans have sunk to ref-blaming?!?

The shame...

On the plus side, we did get to see Tom Brady's mouthpiece on the turf in Buffalo this weekend


Also... as a Hawks fan who didn't watch the game (so I wont comment on whether or not the refs actually cost us the game), I will say that I have seen a number of games in which a team won due to shady/terrible officiating. It can be a valid reason.

It's a week reed to lean on.

Usually it is...say...a bad play call by a team late in a game that leads to a loss, right?

Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Man, for being a Superbowl team, the Panthers sure have fethed up this season. Maybe the Broncos rattled them too hard? Or all the gakky helmet to helmet hits on Newton in the first game KO'ed him?

There's a lot wrong, but the team does still have heart to not just pack it in and roll over like they did in Atlanta. Hoping with the bye week, we can get healthy as the back half is now all must win games. I think Cam has had a concussion since the horribly officiated Denver rematch, the Niners being awful masked that, but watching him get back in form even though it was still a loss is a relief. Also got to stop shooting ourselves in the freaking foot!

We could easily be 4-2 even with the poor effort from everyone on the D that doesn't play the LB spot and the OTs being horrible. (Remmers has to go, he was solid last year but Von Miller completely rattled and exposed him. When he went down the back up actually played better then he did.) Charles Johnson has hit an age wall I think, and Kony Ealy has regressed to the point I want them to put Lavar Edwards in. The DTs are getting doubled too much as well. The rookies aren't that bad their physical gifts are clear, but they DESPERATELY need a vet back there to help them cause they are biting on every double move they see. I think they NEED a Harper and/or Tillman more then they need to have Norman back. Still the core is there to get this thing back on track and Rivera has made a habit of slow starts and then hot runs. J-Stew when healthy is a beast, Olsen is the 2nd best TE in the league. Cam I swear I feel like he's a good LT away from making even his MVP season numbers look paltry. And we do have 2 of the best LBs in the game, with Denver having the other one.

At least the Lions and Jags won...Bengals....not so much.

They need to upgrade the offensive line. It was less of a problem last year when they had the running game working well but Kalil is the only above average starter on the line and it shows. Hurney gave Stewart an unconscionably bad contract and his fat salary prohibits the Panthers from spending more at RB to shore up the positon so when Stewart is hurt (which aside from last year is often) the running game fails. When Stewart is out their best runner is Cam and they need to minimize the hits he takes. Likewise when they can't run the line isn't great at protecting Cam when he drops back. It was nice that they brought back Johnson as he's a good veteran leader on the defense but he's old and wasn't that effective last year when he was healthy and they haven't had a dynamic pass rusher since Hardy. Without an end rusher their tackles get doubled too much especially now with Short not playing as well as last year and without a good pass rush their secondary gets exposed. If the Panthers stay healthy the rest of the year they should be able to put together a winning streak and make a playoff push but this team is still suffering from the salary cap hell that Hurney put them in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
For some reason, I find myself agreeing with Skip Bayliss on something...

A few evenings ago, he and Shannon Sharpe were talking about NFL ratings/viewership being down.... While Skip denied that there's such thing as "too much" football, Shannon definitely was blaming the on-field quality of play, especially on Thursday Night games, on "too much football"... Regardless, both agreed that viewership was down because quality was down, the games simply haven't been all that good.

This was severely highlighted in last night's primetime game.... Seattle and AZ seemed to both not want to win, and while I expected a close game between division rivals, I expected better overall play. I also watched the Vikings game, which was terrible. The Steelers/Pats game wasn't much better to watch either... I think that something has got to change, and probably needs to change soon.

A couple things in factor heavily, cable subscriptions are done, the number of people cutting the cord with cable so there are fewer people watching cable tv including ESPN. http://www.businessinsider.com/cable-tv-curbs-subscriber-losses-but-cord-cutters-continue-to-grow-2016-3
Secondly, there's more access to NFL games and that's bad for ratings. When I was growing up I only got to see 4 games a week, the 1pm, 4pm and night game on Sunday and the Monday night game. For our market it was Giants, Jets and then whatever the network's preferred matchup was in the other time slots. Now we have things like Titans vs Jaguars on Thursday night. Nobody wants to watch games like that. They pit bad times against each other and conflict with college football games. Plus you have fantasy football driving a lot of football fans and you don't need to watch the games to know how your fantasy team is doing, most serious fantasy players will be getting updates on their phone for their team. Fewer cable subscribers, weaker games and fantasy making game outcomes less meaningful means less viewership.

 helgrenze wrote:
Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

I know in the Vikings vs Eagles game the refs ignored Zimmer's call for a TO. But, there were soooo many bad ref calls in that game on both sides that it hardly matters. Even if the refs would have called the game straight it wouldn't have mattered with how badly the Vikings played that game. Not that the Eagles played much better. That game was all around a mess.

 helgrenze wrote:
Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

One thing that really bothers me about Cam Newton's comments is how much he runs. If you try to be a running back, expect to be hit more/more helmet to helmet contact.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:
Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

One thing that really bothers me about Cam Newton's comments is how much he runs. If you try to be a running back, expect to be hit more/more helmet to helmet contact.

Except that the hits he's been complaining about have mostly been in the pocket.

Cam is just learning what Roethlisberger did years ago. Some QBs are protected, and others aren't. If you're a big, strong guy, the odds are tilted even more against you. It's incredibly bush league of the NFL to protect Brady like they do, and yet not protect the league's reigning MVP.

 gorgon wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:
Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

One thing that really bothers me about Cam Newton's comments is how much he runs. If you try to be a running back, expect to be hit more/more helmet to helmet contact.

Except that the hits he's been complaining about have mostly been in the pocket.

Cam is just learning what Roethlisberger did years ago. Some QBs are protected, and others aren't. If you're a big, strong guy, the odds are tilted even more against you. It's incredibly bush league of the NFL to protect Brady like they do, and yet not protect the league's reigning MVP.

I've watched a few of Cam's game and I think he's on to something... he seems to take more gratituous pounding in the pocket than when he scampers.

 Alpharius wrote:
Seahawks fans have sunk to ref-blaming?!?

The shame...

It's hardly shameful when it's accurate. Un-called blatant pass interference by the offense gave the Saints points they shouldn't have had. "Tackle the cornerback to get the other receiver open" is not a legal play.

(And if you're hinting at the end of the Falcons game, if any flags were thrown it should have been offsetting penalties and another try at 4th and long from the wrong end of the field, not a win for the Falcons.)

 gorgon wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:
Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

One thing that really bothers me about Cam Newton's comments is how much he runs. If you try to be a running back, expect to be hit more/more helmet to helmet contact.

Except that the hits he's been complaining about have mostly been in the pocket.

Cam is just learning what Roethlisberger did years ago. Some QBs are protected, and others aren't. If you're a big, strong guy, the odds are tilted even more against you. It's incredibly bush league of the NFL to protect Brady like they do, and yet not protect the league's reigning MVP.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Him being a big guy, expect to get hit hard and not have anyone point a finger. That being said, I've seen plenty of other guys half Newton's size take the same hits and not complain. I think Newton has a point, but it's not just him: they need to look at how all QB's get tackled, not just the big names.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:
Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

One thing that really bothers me about Cam Newton's comments is how much he runs. If you try to be a running back, expect to be hit more/more helmet to helmet contact.

Except that the hits he's been complaining about have mostly been in the pocket.

Cam is just learning what Roethlisberger did years ago. Some QBs are protected, and others aren't. If you're a big, strong guy, the odds are tilted even more against you. It's incredibly bush league of the NFL to protect Brady like they do, and yet not protect the league's reigning MVP.

I've watched a few of Cam's game and I think he's on to something... he seems to take more gratituous pounding in the pocket than when he scampers.

Is that bad pocket protection or intentional head hunting?

It's not just head hunting though, it's these diving shots at his knees and rolling into him like Kimo von Oelhoffen did to take out Carson Palmer's knee. You watch a lot of times guys roll into his legs and they are twisting his leg or ankle when he's down. In fact I've seen him almost kick a guy once because it was going uncalled.

Now he manned up on that hit in ATL, but those hits in in Denver, if called could have meant a victory for us.

And of course Denver has a lot of dirty players like Talib, who in that game tried to hit Benjamin in his knee.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
It's not just head hunting though, it's these diving shots at his knees and rolling into him like Kimo von Oelhoffen did to take out Carson Palmer's knee. You watch a lot of times guys roll into his legs and they are twisting his leg or ankle when he's down. In fact I've seen him almost kick a guy once because it was going uncalled.

Now he manned up on that hit in ATL, but those hits in in Denver, if called could have meant a victory for us.

And of course Denver has a lot of dirty players like Talib, who in that game tried to hit Benjamin in his knee.

There were three uncalled hits that should have been flagged. Doubt it would have won the game for the Panthers, but it is what it is. Also, Talib had a lot of problems, but I believe he's been straightening out. These last three or four games he's played have had no dirty hits, it was just that first game against the Panthers. But once the Broncos get a reputation for "playing dirty", it doesn't matter what they do, people will call it dirty.

Second, I doubt a lot of the hits on Cam's legs are to intentionally injure him. He's a big guy, ofcourse they're going to go for his legs. It's the same thing that happens with Roethlisberger.

Case in point: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-reportedly-admits-officials-missed-obvious-low-hit-on-cam-newton-in-week-8/ Pretty obvious low hit that didn't get called, but this one was obviously unintentional. The guy even gets up to apologize to Cam.

And the Vikings seem determined to see how BADLY they can play. The O-line and Norv are a dumpster fire that need to go. The defense shouldn't have to do everything, but they need to at least show up. Injuries or no injuries there is NO excuse for the Vikings to lose against the Bears. Looking like another very disappointing year for myself and other Viking fans.

 NorseSig wrote:
And the Vikings seem determined to see how BADLY they can play. The O-line and Norv are a dumpster fire that need to go. The defense shouldn't have to do everything, but they need to at least show up. Injuries or no injuries there is NO excuse for the Vikings to lose against the Bears. Looking like another very disappointing year for myself and other Viking fans.

There's no excuse for anyone to lose to the Bears. Their impotence to score within the 20 is incredible. I think last night's take aways were the gak job done by the Vike's O line...6 sacks on Bradford, IIRC...and Howard continuing to show potential for greatness. I can't wait until the end of this season and Bears get a good draft choice, Cutler gets the boot, hopefully Fox too.

 NorseSig wrote:
And the Vikings seem determined to see how BADLY they can play. The O-line and Norv are a dumpster fire that need to go. The defense shouldn't have to do everything, but they need to at least show up. Injuries or no injuries there is NO excuse for the Vikings to lose against the Bears. Looking like another very disappointing year for myself and other Viking fans.

I feel you on that, and I'm not even a Vikes fan. It looked like Minnesota was shaping into a contender but that O Line performance was absolutely terrible! And the less said about defense, the better.

 NorseSig wrote:
And the Vikings seem determined to see how BADLY they can play. The O-line and Norv are a dumpster fire that need to go. The defense shouldn't have to do everything, but they need to at least show up. Injuries or no injuries there is NO excuse for the Vikings to lose against the Bears. Looking like another very disappointing year for myself and other Viking fans.

Man... Sam Bradford just can't catch a break...

 jreilly89 wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:
Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

One thing that really bothers me about Cam Newton's comments is how much he runs. If you try to be a running back, expect to be hit more/more helmet to helmet contact.

ESPN put up a pretty convincing article that Newton doesn't get the calls when he's hit inside the pocket that other quarterbacks get.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17939672/cam-newton-get-superstar-qb-treatment-nfl-officials-2016

 helgrenze wrote:
Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

Him and Roethlisberger take bigger and later hits in the pocket without a penalty being called than Brady or Brees do, according to that one ESPN thingy I watched that time. They have a valid complaint, I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Prestor Jon wrote:

ESPN put up a pretty convincing article that Newton doesn't get the calls when he's hit inside the pocket that other quarterbacks get.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17939672/cam-newton-get-superstar-qb-treatment-nfl-officials-2016

Hey, an updated ESPN thingy on that topic! I knew I wasn't crazy. This supports my viewpoint so I'm taking it as 100% fact!

Prestor Jon wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:
Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

One thing that really bothers me about Cam Newton's comments is how much he runs. If you try to be a running back, expect to be hit more/more helmet to helmet contact.

ESPN put up a pretty convincing article that Newton doesn't get the calls when he's hit inside the pocket that other quarterbacks get.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17939672/cam-newton-get-superstar-qb-treatment-nfl-officials-2016

Good article, but I disagree with about half of it. The first, the helmet to helmet, isn't fair, because that first game of Denver vs. Carolina was total crap. There were three helmet to helmets that went uncalled, not very normal in a typical game. Second, the low hit they showed, the guy actually got up to apologize. Pretty obvious it was an accident.

I think Cam has a couple points, but I think he also needs to be a big boy like Roethlisberger, and man up. He's going to take some hard hits, but the NFL should meet him halfway and start calling bad hits on ALL QB's, not just the big names.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:
Actually, several players and at least one coach have lodged complaints about the officiating this season.
Cam Newton wants to meet with Goodall to discuss the hits he's been taking vs some of the calls with other QBs.

One thing that really bothers me about Cam Newton's comments is how much he runs. If you try to be a running back, expect to be hit more/more helmet to helmet contact.

ESPN put up a pretty convincing article that Newton doesn't get the calls when he's hit inside the pocket that other quarterbacks get.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17939672/cam-newton-get-superstar-qb-treatment-nfl-officials-2016

Good article, but I disagree with about half of it. The first, the helmet to helmet, isn't fair, because that first game of Denver vs. Carolina was total crap. There were three helmet to helmets that went uncalled, not very normal in a typical game. Second, the low hit they showed, the guy actually got up to apologize. Pretty obvious it was an accident.

I think Cam has a couple points, but I think he also needs to be a big boy like Roethlisberger, and man up. He's going to take some hard hits, but the NFL should meet him halfway and start calling bad hits on ALL QB's, not just the big names.

Pollard apologized to Brady after he tore Brady's ACL and they still created a rule based off that incident to protect quarterbacks from precisely that kind of hit. Pocket passers seem to get more roughing calls than mobile quarterbacks. Your point on Roethlisberger is a good one, Ben doesn't really run but he holds the ball forever and moves around the pocket and consequently gets a lot of contact and hits. He's the size of a tight end and frequently has defenders hanging on him, hitting his legs, etc. and doesn't seem to get the kind of calls that Brady and Brees get. Rodgers scrambles a lot and is an MVP and a superbowl champ and he gets more calls than Ben or Cam. The most important aspect of officiating in any sport is consistency and for whatever reason the NFL officials aren't very consistent with their calls on QB hits. If the NFL is going to pass special rules to protect QBs then they need to consistently enforce them.

Prestor Jon wrote:

Pollard apologized to Brady after he tore Brady's ACL and they still created a rule based off that incident to protect quarterbacks from precisely that kind of hit. Pocket passers seem to get more roughing calls than mobile quarterbacks. Your point on Roethlisberger is a good one, Ben doesn't really run but he holds the ball forever and moves around the pocket and consequently gets a lot of contact and hits. He's the size of a tight end and frequently has defenders hanging on him, hitting his legs, etc. and doesn't seem to get the kind of calls that Brady and Brees get. Rodgers scrambles a lot and is an MVP and a superbowl champ and he gets more calls than Ben or Cam. The most important aspect of officiating in any sport is consistency and for whatever reason the NFL officials aren't very consistent with their calls on QB hits. If the NFL is going to pass special rules to protect QBs then they need to consistently enforce them.

Agreed, unfortunately the NFL, much like WWE or any other entertainment network, is in the entertainment business, so they protect their money makers like Brady and Rodgers the most. Guys like Cam and other rookies fall to the way side until they bring in enough ad revenue.