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Mentioning Commissars.

Fluff wise are fine. board wise.... meh. But Commissar in tank is fun. Because Tank.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
I love commissars. Maybe not so much tabletop wise but in the fluff especially. They really help give the IG that WW2 Russian army feel where if you're not running towards the enemy gun fire you'll be running back into your commanding officers bayonet.

But y'see, that's the issue here.

Commissars aren't actually present in all Guard armies. Because not all Guard armies are "WW2 Russian army" where it's a conscript with a gun pressed into their hand.

So scrap Commissars and instead bring back "Iron Discipline" for Junior and Senior Officers, with the "Summary Execution" rule.

I wish there were more guard players. I've played them only twice, once in parking-lot style and another in some random formation I can't remember. It was fun because it was a gunline I could actually get to, unlike Tau or Eldar gunlines. Plus, I like their look a lot more than Eldar. They've got this fun, gritty look to them, a very serious tone that I like. World needs more of 'em, that's for sure.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Commissar Terrence wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Yarrick needs to be squatted and Commissars need to die in a fire.

They're useless trash and they take up a spot that could have been made to create an actually interesting and unique alternate HQ choice compared to the Command Squads we get in Tempestus and Guard.

Tsk. Throw me a bone why wont you..... Commissars are the best

Commissars are absolute and utter trash. I want them gone. They're being shoved down my throat in formations that SHOULD be touting Tempestus or Guard officers instead of some scrub Priest reject in a trenchcoat with a funny hat.

Do you know why I refuse to run the Tempestus formation for Valkyries, despite being able to?
Because you have to take a stupid Commissar.

I'll agree rules-wise Commissars are pretty crap for their points and how little they do for a guard army compared to Priests (especially Lord Commissars), but fluff-wise they're IMO one of the cooler parts of the Guard and one of the few constants in the myriad and diverse forces of the IG. All they need to do is lower their points cost to somewhere around 20-25 ppm, make them have 2W each, and give them a special rule like "Commissarial Encouragement" where you can, at the beginning of the shooting phase, execute one of the models that a Commissar is attached to in order to "motivate" their fellow guardsmen to fight harder in the Emperor's name. This unit then may re-roll all failed to hit rolls in shooting. Or something along the lines like that like the Commissar Lord's ability in DoW2 where he can increase the damage output and prevent fleeing by shooting a model in a unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
I love commissars. Maybe not so much tabletop wise but in the fluff especially. They really help give the IG that WW2 Russian army feel where if you're not running towards the enemy gun fire you'll be running back into your commanding officers bayonet.

But y'see, that's the issue here.

Commissars aren't actually present in all Guard armies. Because not all Guard armies are "WW2 Russian army" where it's a conscript with a gun pressed into their hand.

So scrap Commissars and instead bring back "Iron Discipline" for Junior and Senior Officers, with the "Summary Execution" rule.

Also to be fair, you don't HAVE to take Commissars in your army if you don't want to. That Scion formation aside (and the psykana division) there's little that prevents you from building an army avoiding their use.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
I love commissars. Maybe not so much tabletop wise but in the fluff especially. They really help give the IG that WW2 Russian army feel where if you're not running towards the enemy gun fire you'll be running back into your commanding officers bayonet.

But y'see, that's the issue here.

Commissars aren't actually present in all Guard armies. Because not all Guard armies are "WW2 Russian army" where it's a conscript with a gun pressed into their hand.

So scrap Commissars and instead bring back "Iron Discipline" for Junior and Senior Officers, with the "Summary Execution" rule.

Also to be fair, you don't HAVE to take Commissars in your army if you don't want to. That Scion formation aside (and the psykana division) there's little that prevents you from building an army avoiding their use.

There's actually a lot more than 'the Scion formation and the Psykana Division' requiring Commissars.

Psykana Division requires Commissars and the Ogryn Auxilia both require Commissars--so that's 2 of the 5 Mont'ka infantry based formations requiring Commissars.
Both of the Scion formations require Commissars.
The Guard "Start Collecting" formation(which, by the by, is REALLY good) requires a Commissar.
So that's 5 Guard formations that require Commissars. That is unacceptable.

I'll agree rules-wise Commissars are pretty crap for their points and how little they do for a guard army compared to Priests (especially Lord Commissars), but fluff-wise they're IMO one of the cooler parts of the Guard and one of the few constants in the myriad and diverse forces of the IG. All they need to do is lower their points cost to somewhere around 20-25 ppm, make them have 2W each, and give them a special rule like "Commissarial Encouragement" where you can, at the beginning of the shooting phase, execute one of the models that a Commissar is attached to in order to "motivate" their fellow guardsmen to fight harder in the Emperor's name. This unit then may re-roll all failed to hit rolls in shooting. Or something along the lines like that like the Commissar Lord's ability in DoW2 where he can increase the damage output and prevent fleeing by shooting a model in a unit.

Additionally, fluffwise, it's been established for a long while that Commissars aren't actually "one of the few constants". They're present in recent foundings or early foundings for worlds.

We could lose Commissars and the only people who would be upset are the people who insist that Guard have to be fighting with waves of meatshields rather than modern tactics.

Ditch Commissars, ditch Ratlings, ditch Rough Riders, ditch all of the WW1 tactical crap and bring us forward. It's about time we started moving to Korea or Vietnam tactics.

Commissar Terrence wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
.......
Well, we have tank-oh wait, so the do the Marty Sue Marines and the Tau.

The guards tanks are master race. I mean A BLOODY BANEBLADE has like 200 weapons to choose from. And those leman russes. Like a punisher with pask or a demolisher can kill a squad of space marines if its placed right.

They look amazing. The Baneblade costs far too much for what it does and the Leman Russ varies from slightly expensive to a vast waste of points depending on the model.

TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
.......
Well, we have tank-oh wait, so the do the Marty Sue Marines and the Tau.

We have literally no good tanks,
Preds- OK,
LRs of any kind - AV14 but overcosted
Stalkers - No
Hunters - No
Razorbacks - No
Whirlwinds - Certainly not.

We have the Sicaran, which you could ally in easily.

Predators: Decent and if taken in a three tan squadron become the best tank/MC hunters, especially when compared to Leman Russ variants
Land Raiders are very expensive although they are tough
Stalkers and Hunters both vastly outperform Hydra flak tanks
Razorbacks and Rhinos are both better transports per point when compared to Chimeras and Tauroxes
Whirlwinds lose out on specialisation and range when compared to IG artillery but they have better versatility and that range advantage stops counting when the board is only 6' by 4'

And allying is not something that we should have to rely on to avoid being stomped.

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
.......
Well, we have tank-oh wait, so the do the Marty Sue Marines and the Tau.

We have literally no good tanks,
Preds- OK,
LRs of any kind - AV14 but overcosted
Stalkers - No
Hunters - No
Razorbacks - No
Whirlwinds - Certainly not.

We have the Sicaran, which you could ally in easily.

A predator did kill pask and my punisher... once. Just because I turned it sideways! And just because he rolled a six on the damage table!!

Aside: Say what you want about commissars, they look amazing and I for one prefer them leading my conscripts that way they can go to ground, fall back from an unkillable monster, and give me a little flexibility. And if you fail orders, is one dead conscript really a problem?

Now I really really love my guard, but I dont play them as much as I like since they have a bit of trouble but I can't keep myself from buying them, and modding them, and converting them and having a merry old time with guardsman of all shapes.

In fluff, guard is great. I am sure I am a minority, but I would prefer a 40k with less focus on marines and more on other humans, guard first.

The person that wrote the 6th edition guard codex just has not played, or have seen in play Guard since mid 5th edition, tops.

That was a rushed jobs to remove character with no models.

And please, Commissars are too iconic. They are WWI-WWII, but they fit perfectly the setting. I agree on the fact that the human wave should not be the only way to play guard.
In 5th was possible but hey. We buy new books for a worse game, nowadays.

What they did with the priest was criminal in regard of the commissar fluff. As with giving SM and eldar squadrons. Squadrons should be a guard thing. If everybody has everything, no army has flavour. But flavour do not sells models I guess.

Predators are IMHO good for their cost. Just, the game became so crazy that 3 lascannons (say) are not scary anymore.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
In fluff, guard is great. I am sure I am a minority, but I would prefer a 40k with less focus on marines and more on other humans, guard first.

The person that wrote the 6th edition guard codex just has not played, or have seen in play Guard since mid 5th edition, tops.

That was a rushed jobs to remove character with no models.

And please, Commissars are too iconic. They are WWI-WWII, but they fit perfectly the setting. I agree on the fact that the human wave should not be the only way to play guard.
In 5th was possible but hey. We buy new books for a worse game, nowadays.

What they did with the priest was criminal in regard of the commissar fluff. As with giving SM and eldar squadrons. Squadrons should be a guard thing. If everybody has everything, no army has flavour. But flavour do not sells models I guess.

Predators are IMHO good for their cost. Just, the game became so crazy that 3 lascannons (say) are not scary anymore.

Ahh those halcyon days of 3rd edition where having 1 or 2 LRBTs was super OP and you could also get a lascannon heavy weapon team, and your enemy would have to rush into close combat just to get the hope of defeating your unstoppable firepower.

I agree that the fact that the old premier weaponry is just no longer scary. There was a time when even dark lances were the creme de la creme and they were usually the only thing you could use to stop things like LRBTs and Monoliths. Maybe its power creep, maybe its just the case of better options being available?

 generalchaos34 wrote:


I agree that the fact that the old premier weaponry is just no longer scary. There was a time when even dark lances were the creme de la creme and they were usually the only thing you could use to stop things like LRBTs and Monoliths. Maybe its power creep, maybe its just the case of better options being available?

They removed the meaning of what an assault or heavy or ordnance weapon is, and in which boundaries these words define. This started, alas, in 5th, especially with xenos.

I think IG are pretty damned decent. Lots of cheap, strong vehicles, wyverns are AMAZING, access to decent psyker diciplines, tons of cheap melta / plasma guns.

I don't play them much admittedly, but when I do it's usually a tough fight. It's especially annoying when they bring a million metal bawkses that I have to waste a turn charging to break.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I like generalchaos's quote:

""Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"

-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer "

I assume it's meant to be inaccurate imperial propaganda, but on the tabletop it's honestly not too far off. At least the first part.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I think IG are pretty damned decent. Lots of cheap, strong vehicles, wyverns are AMAZING, access to decent psyker diciplines, tons of cheap melta / plasma guns.

I don't play them much admittedly, but when I do it's usually a tough fight. It's especially annoying when they bring a million metal bawkses that I have to waste a turn charging to break.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I like generalchaos's quote:

""Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"

-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer "

I assume it's meant to be inaccurate imperial propaganda, but on the tabletop it's honestly not too far off. At least the first part.

lol, the whole book is full of awesomely silly stuff like that, for instance

"eldar use inferior and archaic technology surpassed by anything humans use"

"Tau are almost blind and are incapable of basic aiming"

"leaving a bowl of amnesac outside can attract Vespid and render them unconscious from sugar overdose"

and on top of that there is one little page in the back for officer use only that tells you to disregard everything in there and to shoot your men if they show mutation. Plus the penal code consists of break law X, receive Y punishment (flogging, labor, etc) then to be shot afterwards

The Uplifting Primer is one of the sole reasons I love the guard so much, if you like guard in any way, FIND A COPY AND BUY IT

plus it has some nifty prayers you can read that give you a blessing of the emperor for shooting, melee, using grenades, and surviving the cold depths of space (which they recommend you really really hold your breath hard while rescuers come)

Hm. I'm not allowed to share what I think about the Imperual guard on a family rated forum.

...But in all seriousness, I think they're pretty versatile in terms of suiting many builds and play styles. Some armies have to rigidly stick to certain builds to remain viable. Guard allow a little diversity, and I appreciate that.
I play a fluff army (infantry) which allows me to sit on all the objectives and annoy people. My friend is a tread head and runs artillery only. That sort of thing.

And commissars are a bit like the Joker from Batman. So many people have had a go at writing for and about them, that they are a messy unclear caricature of an idea. I think as individuals they shine, though.

I really don't think much of them at all, to me their just really dull. I think the only Guard I'm remotely interested in are the Elysian Drop Troops.

Tanks and mechanized formations. It's the reason I got into wargaming anyways - to play with my G.I. Joe ... I mean Imperial Guard forces.

Guard are my creative hobby army. I'm currently amassing a fair collection of the excellent dreamforge eisenkern models. They're good for fun campaigns but the codex is dated and by jove does the Russ need a new model.

I think the Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard) are a disgrace, stuck in a constant 'reinforcement' cycle of throwing men and materials around the place and worse still that these forces are all expendable. What I do like about them is that they try to make the best out of their circumstances and put up as much resistance as they can against our enemies.

I love the hostile environment squads from FW. I'm using them to make a professional (traitor) guard unit. Something about the faces just turns me off the model otherwise.

Balls of Steel. And they hold the fething line to the bitter end.


And tanks. Lots and lots of tanks.



What's not to love?

I liked them mostly when I was the only person who played them. Suddenly leaf blower lists popped up everywhere in my area then I just lost interest.

I enjoy being one of the few to use something and try to make it work. Doesn't help that guard have been gutted to the point that they're not fun to play with any more. Mobility is gone. Fire power is mid tier. Tanks are kinda useless now.