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Oh gak, I thought of a way of dealing with this... with CSM and Daemons! Sort of... it depends on a factor I'm not entirely sure it works that way:

Grab be'lakor and max size nurglings. Grab a dark apostle/chaos lord of nurgle. Make the nurglings and the DA/CL invisible: charge at Smashfucker. Pile in, you've got them half surrounded. Endure their attacks, pile in again (your initiative) at this point, and with that low model count, you may have fully surrounded them. If not use the pile in at the end of combat (here's the part I'm not entirely sure of, do you Hit 'n' Run after the end of combat pile in or before it?) Now the chapter master is surrounded and he can't flee and has effectively tarpitted him.

Of course... IF that makes it into combat with the chapter master. If not, invisible Be'lakor can put a dent on the CM. His weapon is instant death so it ignores his FNP so he'd have to be careful.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Oh gak, I thought of a way of dealing with this... with CSM and Daemons! Sort of... it depends on a factor I'm not entirely sure it works that way:

Grab be'lakor and max size nurglings. Grab a dark apostle/chaos lord of nurgle. Make the nurglings and the DA/CL invisible: charge at Smashfucker. Pile in, you've got them half surrounded. Endure their attacks, pile in again (your initiative) at this point, and with that low model count, you may have fully surrounded them. If not use the pile in at the end of combat (here's the part I'm not entirely sure of, do you Hit 'n' Run after the end of combat pile in or before it?) Now the chapter master is surrounded and he can't flee and has effectively tarpitted him.

Of course... IF that makes it into combat with the chapter master. If not, invisible Be'lakor can put a dent on the CM. His weapon is instant death so it ignores his FNP so he'd have to be careful.

BAM! Here we go. A viable solution! I like this idea. Now imagine blobs of 20x plague beaerers with icons beaconing in more tarpitting jazz. With obj corruption, all the daemon player has to do is flash nurlings onto it in msu and watch the blobstar cry as it fights grim'd nurglings or invis nurglings. What a waste.

The hit and run... that might be an issue. It says that you can move through models in combat, but what if you have "rings" of tarpits. HAH that would be upsetting. Ring of nurglings, ring of plague bearers, then summoners summoning summoners summoning nurlings.

You can move through models in combat? Well, that you can't must be a houserule of my meta.

Thought of something else. Are traitors allowed to bring imperial assassins? I don't run them (I haven't got my hands on them) But if we could, aside from my tactic, the idea would be to use the assassin to snipe the banner. 5++ FNP isn't the most reliable of saves. Then rinse with the apothecary. By round 3, which will be the most likely moment where charge will be happening, two pillars of the deathstar.

When you hit and run, you ignore the models that you're in combat with. (With the exception that you still need to make it an inch away from them with all dudes.)

You CAN stop hit and run by surrounding the unit with another unit that isn't in the combat, as HNR has to stop 1" away from other enemies.

And for your question, hit and run is end of the assault phase, after all combats have been done, and all pile ins.

+1 toughness power and T6 no longer cares about str 10 too,

leaving D the only thing that can actually hurt it

Lord Kragan wrote:
You can move through models in combat? Well, that you can't must be a houserule of my meta.

Thought of something else. Are traitors allowed to bring imperial assassins? I don't run them (I haven't got my hands on them) But if we could, aside from my tactic, the idea would be to use the assassin to snipe the banner. 5++ FNP isn't the most reliable of saves. Then rinse with the apothecary. By round 3, which will be the most likely moment where charge will be happening, two pillars of the deathstar.

As part of the hit and run you can move through any models that were in that combat, extended or otherwise. However the next set of models would prevent their escape

As part of your assassin idea... thats really cool. Just pick what you want with vindicare and poof, this buff dies this turn. Coupled wth a cullexus assassin, you can shut down some of those damned psychic powers.

Turn 2 armies might be a new thing with having to avoid it with fling-stars. Counter the alphas with a beta strike?

Corsair void dreamer has a half chance to endlessly cycle this unit back into reserve every turn.

 xSoulgrinderx wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
You can move through models in combat? Well, that you can't must be a houserule of my meta.

Thought of something else. Are traitors allowed to bring imperial assassins? I don't run them (I haven't got my hands on them) But if we could, aside from my tactic, the idea would be to use the assassin to snipe the banner. 5++ FNP isn't the most reliable of saves. Then rinse with the apothecary. By round 3, which will be the most likely moment where charge will be happening, two pillars of the deathstar.

As part of the hit and run you can move through any models that were in that combat, extended or otherwise. However the next set of models would prevent their escape

As part of your assassin idea... thats really cool. Just pick what you want with vindicare and poof, this buff dies this turn. Coupled wth a cullexus assassin, you can shut down some of those damned psychic powers.

Turn 2 armies might be a new thing with having to avoid it with fling-stars. Counter the alphas with a beta strike?

We need to try the assassinorum force against this list (so we can get all the assassins). At least for the vindicare and callidus, it seems they are going to have a field day. Depending on positioning the callidus may kill the banner while the vindicare kills the apothecary (charges won't be happening on turn one) while the eversor can maul a vehicle or two while distracting the enemy backfield. (And I think he could survive the shooting, I need to mathhammer it). The culexus, the moment the psykers are in can go and buttfuck'em or foil their blessings.

Here's the problem with most of the solutions posted here...the IH blob gets powers too.

Cool nurglings and Belakor, except the CM is invisible too and will be doing WAY more wounds to belakor AND can't be tarpited. OH NO instant death ST10 melee attacks! Veil or the toughness buff renders this irrelevant, especially if they get invis too. Wrap them to stop H&R, electro displacement, Long Range D weapons, Electro displacement

Nurglings again, if you're playing ITC they're irrelevant because the 3 POTMS whirlwinds will clear an entrie board of nurglings after moving 12 inches, you aren't playing ITC then they'll clear 2 units of nurgling easy, more if you're not careful about spread.

The assasins are hilariously impractical because this squad can chase them down and murder them first turn if they infiltrate so the callidus Culexus and eversor die instantly and can't hurt the unit back, seriously, the callidus would hit the 3+FNP and T5 with her invul ignore sword, or the invul and FNP with her poison sword, Eversor is seriously not designed for this type of fighting, and the culexus would have to roll 6s for all of his attacks just to plink off against the CMs 3++ invul, even if one does get through, CM has Eternal Warrior for his first 2 wounds. Also have you ever played with a vindicare? if you're very lucky he'll get the apothecary, if you're not lucky he'll get electro displacement-ed and swap with the deathstar so the dreadnought can crunch him.

This type of squad is, in general, best avoided. Take what you can off it, kill it's support, play to the mission, and thank christ it's not obsec. Unless he brought the Demi Company instead of the Armoured task, at that point just be happy it's slightly weaker. Trying to go toe to toe with a star like this without obscenely luck stomps will, at best, frustrate the hell out both players for 7 turns.

Um wouldnt putting on the Cataphracti Armour be good on the Captain? To my understanding it doesn't interfere with bikes. I believe that can get you to a 2+/2++/2+++ for saves. With sanctity I believe?

Khadorstompy wrote:
Um wouldnt putting on the Cataphracti Armour be good on the Captain? To my understanding it doesn't interfere with bikes. I believe that can get you to a 2+/2++/2+++ for saves. With sanctity I believe?

terminators can't get on bikes, and he already has a 2+/3++ 2+ FnP. Can't get much tankier than that. With re-rolls a 3++ is as good or better than the ITC 2+ with re-roll which turns into a 2+ followed by a 4+.

Last thing that could hope to deal with this.

We bring a titan.

A warhound, daemon of khorne, dual wielding double barreled turbolasers costs 780pts and spew on 4 pieplates of S AP2 doom, with that we can forget FNP (and invulnerable saves with luck). Bring in crimson slaughter with the balestar, pray for perfect timing and forget about cover saves. Maybe add in be'lakor for invisibility Do they charge him? No problem, only the thundervoles can hope to hurt him and he has 9 HP with a 5++, meaning you'd need 12 pen/glances (and not roll 6 on the explodes chart) so he's highly likely to survive the onslaught, do damage with the stomps and the 1+d3 attacks a S10 AP2, get a bit away, and crump them with the shooting.
Best of all? it's far cheaper than the previous star and has a bigger threat range.

and also not allowed in ITC tournies :/

Really? In Spanish tournaments they are allowed.

ERJAK wrote:
Here's the problem with most of the solutions posted here...the IH blob gets powers too.

Cool nurglings and Belakor, except the CM is invisible too and will be doing WAY more wounds to belakor AND can't be tarpited. OH NO instant death ST10 melee attacks! Veil or the toughness buff renders this irrelevant, especially if they get invis too. Wrap them to stop H&R, electro displacement, Long Range D weapons, Electro displacement

Nurglings again, if you're playing ITC they're irrelevant because the 3 POTMS whirlwinds will clear an entrie board of nurglings after moving 12 inches, you aren't playing ITC then they'll clear 2 units of nurgling easy, more if you're not careful about spread.

The assasins are hilariously impractical because this squad can chase them down and murder them first turn if they infiltrate so the callidus Culexus and eversor die instantly and can't hurt the unit back, seriously, the callidus would hit the 3+FNP and T5 with her invul ignore sword, or the invul and FNP with her poison sword, Eversor is seriously not designed for this type of fighting, and the culexus would have to roll 6s for all of his attacks just to plink off against the CMs 3++ invul, even if one does get through, CM has Eternal Warrior for his first 2 wounds. Also have you ever played with a vindicare? if you're very lucky he'll get the apothecary, if you're not lucky he'll get electro displacement-ed and swap with the deathstar so the dreadnought can crunch him.

This type of squad is, in general, best avoided. Take what you can off it, kill it's support, play to the mission, and thank christ it's not obsec. Unless he brought the Demi Company instead of the Armoured task, at that point just be happy it's slightly weaker. Trying to go toe to toe with a star like this without obscenely luck stomps will, at best, frustrate the hell out both players for 7 turns.

Well payed (claps generously)

Arguements invalidated by the POTMS on the WW. Totally forgot they can move 12" AND shoot at normal BS. Brilliant. Perfect anti horde bike and cover.... I concede to OPs list. Its pretty damn unkillable. Im just glad to see a deathstar and not rip-wraith scat bike spam.

If it is a IH bike command squad instead of RW then they will have a 3++ storm shield save and a 3+++ FNP save. I know he has RW but I honestly think the extra d6 on HnR and the cost of the level 1 psyker Plus the command squad cost I would consider samual and an IH bike squad.

Also the titan will get one round of shooting...that is it. After that the star is in h2h with something on your side of the board. Your shots also can scatter and you are relying on the 6 to do the work. If this goes second and they have the teleport power then it is one turn of shooting. The assassin formation is around 450 points and doesn't fit nicely into what chaos needs. A typhon would do better but it also isn't allowed in ITC. No FNP but if veil is up it doesn't matter.

*Small correction to above: assassin formation is 570

I have this list as adding up to 1865..? Might wanna double check your values

1850. Just double checked it. No clue where you're getting the extra 15 points from. And yes, I will try this list with an Iron Hands command squad and Sammael sometime. I'll have to cut other things though, which I'm not stoked on.

That's odd.. Never mind, my bad