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I'm working on the details of my homegrown space marine fleet, and I already know it will include one retribution class battleship and one avenger class battlecruiser, but what I can't figure out is how many xiphon interceptors, fury interceptors, and wrath starfighters these ships can carry.

Any help with launch bay capacity on these (if any) would be great!

Additionally, if these ships are not able to carry small escort ships, what capital ships would?

Thanks!

emperor class BB has hanger bays, exact figures of how many IIRC have always been left vague. although on a space marine ship those bays would largely be given over to thunderhawks.

Neither of those ships have any sort of significant launch bay capacity. The two 'modern' designs in the BB/BC range would be an Emperor or a Mars. The Oberon has some as well. In the grand cruiser class, you also have the Exorcist.

So in an exorcist class grand cruiser, would 60 interceptors/starfighters be an unreasonably large number? I know these ships are several kilometers long, so I imagine they could hold that many, but I'm not as familiar with the navy side of 40k.

Thanks for the help!

 NightHowler wrote:
So in an exorcist class grand cruiser, would 60 interceptors/starfighters be an unreasonably large number? I know these ships are several kilometers long, so I imagine they could hold that many, but I'm not as familiar with the navy side of 40k.

Thanks for the help!

Unfortunately GW never really specified. 60 seems a bit low to me. For an actual imperial ship it would make sense to me for them to have hundreds of combat craft, plus hundreds of additional support craft. The warships are just massive, and they're expected to operate independently for long periods of time. Especially for a dedicated carrier like the Emperor. These ships are also expected to provide ground support during IG combat actions.

I didn't like how in Star Wars a ship with supposedly 30,000 crew has only 60 star fighters, all of which have extremely short life spans due to their lack of shields. Struck me as poor writing and implausible.

 argonak wrote:

 NightHowler wrote:
So in an exorcist class grand cruiser, would 60 interceptors/starfighters be an unreasonably large number? I know these ships are several kilometers long, so I imagine they could hold that many, but I'm not as familiar with the navy side of 40k.

Thanks for the help!

Unfortunately GW never really specified. 60 seems a bit low to me. For an actual imperial ship it would make sense to me for them to have hundreds of combat craft, plus hundreds of additional support craft. The warships are just massive, and they're expected to operate independently for long periods of time. Especially for a dedicated carrier like the Emperor. These ships are also expected to provide ground support during IG combat actions.

I didn't like how in Star Wars a ship with supposedly 30,000 crew has only 60 star fighters, all of which have extremely short life spans due to their lack of shields. Struck me as poor writing and implausible.

only until you realized the ISD was the product of the Battleship admirals winning over over the carrier admirals

that said 60 fighters seems like it'd work, but I doubt a SM ship would carry that many, most of their bay space is going to be given over to thunderhawks. keep in mind space marines aren't really supposed to have battlefleets. their fleets are SUPPOSED to be taxis and orbital support ships

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind space marines aren't really supposed to have battlefleets. their fleets are SUPPOSED to be taxis and orbital support ships

Tell that to the Imperial Fists and Black Templars.

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind space marines aren't really supposed to have battlefleets. their fleets are SUPPOSED to be taxis and orbital support ships

Tell that to the Imperial Fists and Black Templars.

Try explaining that to space wolves too

 jhe90 wrote:

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind space marines aren't really supposed to have battlefleets. their fleets are SUPPOSED to be taxis and orbital support ships

Tell that to the Imperial Fists and Black Templars.

Try explaining that to space wolves too

I'll ask the dark angels to explain it to them while they're busy explaining the whole "mutants are bad mmkay?" thing anyway

The Dark Angels in the siege of Vraks deploy 1 battlebarge and 2 strike cruisers.

Between the 3 ships are 15 Thunderhawk Gunships and 22 Thunderhawk transporters. Their are also 42 drop pods deployed.

With that being said the Xiphon is a relic and will not exist in the 40k setting where marines are piloting fighters. Now if your chapter has a carrier in gothic then it would be possible that starhawk, fury etc could be piloted by legion serfs. I think that 60 may be a bit low but not far from what is realistic. Maybe 100-120 void capable fighters or bombers would be carried?

 Generalstoner wrote:
The Dark Angels in the siege of Vraks deploy 1 battlebarge and 2 strike cruisers.

Between the 3 ships are 15 Thunderhawk Gunships and 22 Thunderhawk transporters. Their are also 42 drop pods deployed.

With that being said the Xiphon is a relic and will not exist in the 40k setting where marines are piloting fighters. Now if your chapter has a carrier in gothic then it would be possible that starhawk, fury etc could be piloted by legion serfs. I think that 60 may be a bit low but not far from what is realistic. Maybe 100-120 void capable fighters or bombers would be carried?

Thanks, numbers definitely help. Would Xiphons exist in M35? That's when my great company became trapped in the warp.

There's no fluff regarding the 'fate' of the Xiphon, but it's 40k rules do not have the Relic of the Armoury rule and it's actually available to every marine codex, implying they're still relatively common.

Unfortunately GW never really specified.

Fantasy Flight Games to the rescue (ish!)

In Rogue Trader, one 'point' of launch capacity - the same as in Battlefleet Gothic, meant the ship carried 3 squadrons - traditionally one each of fighter, bomber and assault boat, but in imperial ships the latter would often instead be one squadron of support craft (lighters and landers) or aeronautica (atmosphere-only fighters).


The Exorcist-class Grand Cruiser is a 'fighting carrier' - similar firepower to a normal line cruiser (slightly less but at a slightly longer range) but with the same launch capacity as a normal cruiser-class carrier (which normally sacrifices half of its broadsides)

It has a broadside launch capacity of two squadrons a side, which implies four total, meaning (using rogue trader rules) twelve squadrons berthed on the ship.

What ratio you want of different craft is up to you.

Things I would point out:

Fury Interceptors are big space-only craft with a huge number of forward-bearing lascannons. They're the wrong side of a Stormraven in size. According to the FFG Battlefleet Koronus sourcebook they came in squadrons of 20 craft.

Aeronautic came in squadrons of 30 craft, and the Xiphon - whilst not stated to be atmosphere only that I can recall, is definitely of a scale with Lightnings and Thunderbolts which are given as example aeronautica. On the other hand, Astartes need more space and their ships tend to be higher tech, meaning they are hangar queens needing more extensive and more complex maintenance. The quick 'rule of thumb' comes from Battlefleet Gothic, where a chaos ship could swap its launch capacity from 'normal' fighters, bombers and assault boats to Thunderhawks at a 2-1 ratio in squadrons and removing the choice of different ships.

Therefore as an unscientific guess, I'd suggest a Xiphon squadron occupies three squadron 'slots' but represents about 30 craft - so 120 if the carrier has nothing but Xiphons, or 60 plus 120 Furies if you want to supplement with a mix.

Note that's *total* capacity - not the number deployable into a single battle; it includes replacement fighters, those down for maintenance, and special purpose fighters like flight leaders and recon fighters, and allowing no space for Thunderhawk Gunships.

Each Thawk you want to field would probably take up one of your 'squaudrons'. One thing that's fairly well established is that a strike cruiser can carry about 3-4 thawks, which represents one 'squadron' in game - allowing for the double-size nature of astartes squadrons, 6 squadrons 'space' means three thawks plus a supporting transporter/landing craft each - which makes sense, because four thunderhawks and four thunderhawk transporters is almost exactly the right amount to set an astartes battle company with rhinos and support vehicles down in one flight.


Escort craft aren't carried. Imperial Frigates and Destroyers are warp-capable of their own accord.



Finally, I'd ask if this is a Heresy-era fleet, or a 'modern' fleet (I assume the latter). If so, having 'Imperial Navy' designs in a marine fleet is not unheard of but is generally disliked and the chapter tends to get a lot of stick for it; according to the Codex and the way the Imperial power structures are set up, the Adeptus Astartes is not supposed to have 'line of battle' fleet assets.

The Battle Barge and Strike Cruiser are effective in a fleet battle because they're crewed by astartes and chapter serfs, and built with massive armour and without compromise on quality, but they're designed for planetary assaults. The former is very unmanouvrable and the latter is light on medium-range ship-to-ship guns for a 'cruiser'.

Carriers make sense, but pure-bred battleships have only been observed to date in a Space Wolves fleet.

A mix of 'human' and 'astartes' fighters under a chapter's command would definitely be unusual and cause eyebrows to be raised in an inquisitorial fashion, if you understand my meaning.

Remember that a chapter master can't give orders to Navy ships.

Codex-compliant Chapters will not have any batleships or other Imperial Navy assets.
Also, Xiphons are pretty small next to dedicated space fighters, so any ship designed to carry those should be able to carry a lot of Xiphons or other small atmospheric craft.

Also, the Dictator Class Cruiser, which serves as a carrier for atmospheric craft, carries 15.000 pilots, implying that it can carry a huge amount of fighter craft.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Codex-compliant Chapters will not have any batleships or other Imperial Navy assets.
.

Unless they are relics...........quite a few older Chapters have special ships - especially the 1st founding chapters

Remember that a chapter master can't give orders to Navy ships.

Well maybe not technically, but most officers will at least listen to a Chapter Master and few would openly defy one in person rather than over the Vox...... I like to call it the Vader effect.

BrianDavion wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind space marines aren't really supposed to have battlefleets. their fleets are SUPPOSED to be taxis and orbital support ships

Tell that to the Imperial Fists and Black Templars.

Try explaining that to space wolves too

I'll ask the dark angels to explain it to them while they're busy explaining the whole "mutants are bad mmkay?" thing anyway

While they're all busy talking, the Nicor will be busy crushing the Imperium's enemies in the outer dark.

The Carcharodons Astra are a Chapter that have only dwelt on warships for the entirety of their Chapter's history, which may go back so far as the 2nd Founding.

The Nicor is one of the most badass warships anywhere in the Imperium. Not much tops being able to teleport the entire First Company in Tactical Dreadnought Armor onto an enemy vessel.

Yes and no. Any marine warship is a terrifying foe in a close range engagement, especially where boarding is concerned, and is incredibly tough.

However, the Nicor has BFG stats and whilst tough and lethal at medium to close range, its slow and has fairly anaemic long range firepower - I'd expect it to take a battleship in a fair fight but taking on the two or three large capital ships - especially lance heavy warships like the apocalypse class -that its cost and crew represent as an investment to the imperium..... not a chance.

locarno24 wrote:
Yes and no. Any marine warship is a terrifying foe in a close range engagement, especially where boarding is concerned, and is incredibly tough.

However, the Nicor has BFG stats and whilst tough and lethal at medium to close range, its slow and has fairly anaemic long range firepower - I'd expect it to take a battleship in a fair fight but taking on the two or three large capital ships - especially lance heavy warships like the apocalypse class -that its cost and crew represent as an investment to the imperium..... not a chance.

This is one of those rare instances where fluff>rules would actually work in my favor in an online discussion, since Terminators are not particularly scary on the tabletop or in BFG but are beasts in fluff, especially in close quarters on warships, where anti-tank weapons are often too big to be useful and risk breaching the hull.

She might not be able to maneuver like a frigate or light cruiser, but she can outmaneuver anything close to as tough as she is. 25cm is fast enough. A strong long range lance battery isn't as important when your primary strategy is to charge forward at full speed, blast it a couple of times with the plasma destructor to drop shields, and let the Terminators take the enemies bridge.

Bad goes to worse, you turn around behind a battleship, cut the engines, and hit them in the rear at point blank 'til they explode.

If she can cut the long-range portion of the engagement out by hiding behind a moon or in a dense asteroid belt, she could take 2-3 battleships. The Carcharodons haven't survived nearly 10,000 years in the void of space, alone, with no regular Imperial reinforcements by being average captains.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
Yes and no. Any marine warship is a terrifying foe in a close range engagement, especially where boarding is concerned, and is incredibly tough.

However, the Nicor has BFG stats and whilst tough and lethal at medium to close range, its slow and has fairly anaemic long range firepower - I'd expect it to take a battleship in a fair fight but taking on the two or three large capital ships - especially lance heavy warships like the apocalypse class -that its cost and crew represent as an investment to the imperium..... not a chance.

This is one of those rare instances where fluff>rules would actually work in my favor in an online discussion, since Terminators are not particularly scary on the tabletop or in BFG but are beasts in fluff, especially in close quarters on warships, where anti-tank weapons are often too big to be useful and risk breaching the hull.

She might not be able to maneuver like a frigate or light cruiser, but she can outmaneuver anything close to as tough as she is. 25cm is fast enough. A strong long range lance battery isn't as important when your primary strategy is to charge forward at full speed, blast it a couple of times with the plasma destructor to drop shields, and let the Terminators take the enemies bridge.

Bad goes to worse, you turn around behind a battleship, cut the engines, and hit them in the rear at point blank 'til they explode.

If she can cut the long-range portion of the engagement out by hiding behind a moon or in a dense asteroid belt, she could take 2-3 battleships. The Carcharodons haven't survived nearly 10,000 years in the void of space, alone, with no regular Imperial reinforcements by being average captains.

When BFG was created and kept up with Terminators where very scary on table, so it makes since that in BFG they are still scary (+2 on your role) yikes!. Also Space marine Cruisers and BB are made for breaking a blockade or perimeter and deploying marines planet side. then engaging targets/supporting there escort vessels that are tying up ships. Space marine captains are some of the best in the IoM. you take all the skill, and strengths of an astartes and now you have him live most of his life in the command throne of a void-ship, he will out think, and out plan most any foe.

Now as your flyer questions, from 40K wikia "Like most Imperial vehicles and voidcraft there exist several different patterns, marks, and variants of the of the Fury Interceptor, with the largest of them reaching up to sixty or seventy metres in length and the smallest being close to forty metres. The Fury's size is such that a wing of twenty Furies takes up the same amount of space aboard a starship as a wing of forty of the Adeptus Astartes' Thunderhawk Gunships." so this is contradictory to BFG when you replace 2:1 furies to Thunderhawks

The one who wrote the wikia article probably just got it wrong.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The one who wrote the wikia article probably just got it wrong.

More than a little.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_C-130_Hercules#Specifications_.28C-130H.29

That's twice the size of a C-130.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
The one who wrote the wikia article probably just got it wrong.

More than a little.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_C-130_Hercules#Specifications_.28C-130H.29

That's twice the size of a C-130.

though that may be true, it is also supported by Lexicanum. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fury_Interceptor if anyone has those books readily available you can double check, but this would not be the first time fluff has been contradictory.
a wing of furys is about 15 birds so I would just math around that number.