General Trans bathroom thread, incl. target, federal involvement and more

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**Easy E**

http://www.hrc.org/blog/target-affirms-trans-inclusive-policies-makes-powerful-statement-during-sur

Yesterday, in response to the wave of anti-LGBT legislation sweeping our country -- including discriminatory bills aimed at barring transgender people from using restrooms and other facilities consistent with their gender identity -- Target reiterated its inclusive restroom and fitting room policy for its employees and customers.

At Target, which was recognized as an HRC “Best Places to Work for LGBT Inclusion,” employees and guests are welcome to use restrooms and fitting rooms that correspond with their gender identity. Not only is this policy in keeping with the best practices recommended by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, it also aligns with the latest U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) guidance on preventing discrimination on the basis of gender identity. Target’s announcement, however, takes a decisive step beyond on-paper policies, serving to publicly affirm transgender people at a time when our dignity and safety are under daily attack.

When I use the restroom as a transgender man today, no one challenges whether I belong there because most people assume I was assigned male at birth. But that wasn’t always the case for me. For decades I walked the earth as a visibly gender non-conforming person, and the question of which restroom or fitting room or locker room to use was a constant source of anxiety and pressure and not without good cause: I faced discrimination and verbal and physical abuse more than once while using sex-segregated facilities. An act as simple as using the restroom or trying on a new pair of jeans was often demoralizing at best, and dangerous at worst.

I wonder what it must be like to be a young transgender person today? I can’t be easy to be bombarded with messages undermining your humanity and dignity. It must be awful to know that elected officials -- like those who passed North Carolina’s terrible HB2 -- fixate on restricting safe access to facilities, including restrooms in public buildings including schools, airports and convention facilities. These discriminatory bills increase stigma for transgender and gender-nonconforming youth and health experts, such as the American Academy of Pediatrics, have condemned these pieces of legislation as harmful to LGBTQ youth.

Target’s public affirmation of its existing transgender-inclusive policies for employees and guests is an important voice in countering the current misunderstanding and fear mongering surrounding these anti-transgender bills. More than just a statement on policy, it also affirms the dignity of transgender people. This message is a welcome reminder that transgender people, like everyone else, deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

Is this the same Target that got hammered for giving money to a right-wing Republican in a big Governor's race not long ago? Answer: Yes, the same company but a different CEO.

**LordofHats**

I can tell you first hand Target is not the best place to work

Not because of any LGBT related policy, but because their work environment is downright awful

**Chongara**

The title would seem to indicate they came under fire for the position, but the text of the article takes a strictly supportive tone.

Is there something about this being a controversy that simply wasn't brought through to the quote block?

**Easy E**

Perhaps I should have led with this one, but it is a bit more hyperbolic....

http://www.citypages.com/news/anti-trans-bigots-freak-out-as-target-announces-bathroom-policy-it-already-had-8218948

A lot of people are really, really angry with Target after its announcement Tuesday that the store would allow employees and customers to use the bathroom that aligns with their gender identity.

In a statement on its in-house blog, Target explained that it was spurred to start a conversation with its employees by laws passed in North Carolina and Mississippi that would force folks to use the bathroom of their birth gender — even if that person had transitioned to another sex. Other states, including Minnesota, have seen social conservatives push the same or similar legislation.

This led to many swift condemnations from social conservatives online, with nearly all of them declaring they'd never, ever shop at a Target again. Others tried to argue with the store's decision, and some posed worst-case scenarios of what this new policy would inevitably lead to.

Here's a tiny sampling of what that looks like.

,See Article>

Looks like Target's going to lose some loyal customers who boycott in protest. Other loyal shoppers will be lost through attrition, as they are quickly exposed as sex perverts who are caught snooping in the women's room, and subsequently thrown in prison.

Still others will not be able to shop at Target after they are beaten nearly to death by concerned husbands and fathers. (Note to Target: Self-defense class subsidy for managers?)

So, this is a controversial new policy. There's just this one thing. It's not new. Read through Target's statement (posted below) and you won't see the words "change," "reconsider," "adjust," or "start."

The word you will see is "reiterated." People who automatically connect gender fluidity and sex reassignment to child molestation and rape might not have the greatest vocabulary. Allow us to help: Reiterate is just a fancy way of saying "say again."

Target isn't changing anything. This policy was in place on Saturday, when anti-transgender bigots were shopping there and using the bathroom facilities without incident. Only, they had no way of knowing they were shopping or urinating in the very same building as one of ... those people.

It's sort of like how you can be moving about freely, undisturbed, online, and not realize you're in the same space as a bunch of bigots — until suddenly they all start tweeting in unison, and you realize they've been there the whole time!

One of those scenarios is truly offensive. It's not the one that happens at Target.

Here's the Minneapolis mega-chain's full statement, announcing a revolutionary policy that it's had for a while now. Run for your lives. Or whatever.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

LordofHats wrote:
I can tell you first hand Target is not the best place to work Not because of any LGBT related policy, but because their work environment is downright awful

I use to work there as well, but not at the store level.

**Jihadin**

Wait....people still shop at Target....I think...I might have one near me somewhere...

**Easy E**

Jihadin wrote:
Wait....people still shop at Target....I think...I might have one near me somewhere...

A lot of people still shop at Target, unless you live in the South.... that is Wal-mart territory.

**Ustrello**

Target when you pay a bit more not to shop at walmart.

Because seriously feth walmart terrible corporation and the stores are usually gak holes

**DarkTraveler777**

Ustrello wrote:
Target when you pay a bit more not to shop at walmart.

Because seriously feth walmart terrible corporation and the stores are usually gak holes

Agreed.

There are roughly an even number of Targets and Walmarts in my area and I only ever go to Walmart if I absolutely have to. Then, in those dire circumstances, I try to distract myself from the horror of being in a Walmart by playing Live Action People of Walmart.

**d-usa**

Target knows their demographic.

**oldravenman3025**

Ustrello wrote:
Target when you pay a bit more not to shop at walmart.

Because seriously feth walmart terrible corporation and the stores are usually gak holes

The Super Wal-Mart in my area is actually a decent place to shop for odds and ends local businesses might not carry (or be out of at the time). The staff actually has decent morale because they lucked up and got decent management at our local chain. It will vary between stores. I've been to good stores and bad ones when it comes to Wal-Mart, just as with other stores (including Target).

Besides, if you ever feel bad about yourself, just walk around a Super Wal-Mart at 2 A.M. during the first of the month. I promise that by the time you leave, you'll feel a whole lot better about yourself.

**Kilkrazy**

I'm thinking of visiting my brother this summer, who is American and lives in Oregon. I am a UK citizen.

Will US officials be able to recognise a UK birth certificate, to grant me access to the correct lavatory?

On a related note, how long are the queues to get into the lavs, now that everyone has to have their birth certificate examined?

**Frazzled**

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Ustrello wrote:
Target when you pay a bit more not to shop at walmart.

Because seriously feth walmart terrible corporation and the stores are usually gak holes

Agreed.

There are roughly an even number of Targets and Walmarts in my area and I only ever go to Walmart if I absolutely have to. Then, in those dire circumstances, I try to distract myself from the horror of being in a Walmart by playing Live Action People of Walmart.

This. I won't voluntarily shop at Walmart since they decided to never sell anything made in the USA.

**Chute82**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I'm thinking of visiting my brother this summer, who is American and lives in Oregon. I am a UK citizen.

Will US officials be able to recognise a UK birth certificate, to grant me access to the correct lavatory?

On a related note, how long are the queues to get into the lavs, now that everyone has to have their birth certificate examined?

Well considering Oregon is about 2700 miles from North Carolina I think you will be alright if you need to use the bathroom.

**Frazzled**

Actually if you have to wait for 2,700 miles, I don't think everything is going to be all right unless you have Astronaut underwear.

**Chute82**

Frazzled wrote:
Actually if you have to wait for 2,700 miles, I don't think everything is going to be all right unless you have Astronaut underwear.

Lisa Nowak drove 900 miles wearing a space diaper on her kidnapping mission.

**Kilkrazy**

That's an interesting new euphemism for a snatch.

Back to the topic, what if I go to North Carolina to visit some of the ACW sites?

**Ouze**

Kilkrazy wrote:
On a related note, how long are the queues to get into the lavs, now that everyone has to have their birth certificate examined?

It's not that bad. We just form an orderly line, drop trou, show our penis or vagina, and then proceed. It's a lot faster than the bank, certainly. I'd compare it to the movie theater line in the middle of the day.

**Frazzled**

Kilkrazy wrote:
That's an interesting new euphemism for a snatch.

Back to the topic, what if I go to North Carolina to visit some of the ACW sites?

Take mosquito spray. Its bug season.

**reds8n**

Ouze wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
On a related note, how long are the queues to get into the lavs, now that everyone has to have their birth certificate examined?

It's not that bad. We just form an orderly line, drop trou, show our penis or vagina, and then proceed. It's a lot faster than the bank, certainly. I'd compare it to the movie theater line in the middle of the day.

So it's much like going through your airports then ?

Come the next election these procedures will also be rolled out to help combat voter fraud, to thwart the vast swathes of people who'll swap genders to ensure Obama's fourth term.

**Kanluwen**

Kilkrazy wrote:
That's an interesting new euphemism for a snatch.

Back to the topic, what if I go to North Carolina to visit some of the ACW sites?

Bring bug spray, lots of it. LOTS of it. Mosquito season here in NC is godawful.

**Nostromodamus**

Ouze wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
On a related note, how long are the queues to get into the lavs, now that everyone has to have their birth certificate examined?

It's not that bad. We just form an orderly line, drop trou, show our penis or vagina, and then proceed. It's a lot faster than the bank, certainly. I'd compare it to the movie theater line in the middle of the day.

But I thought the whole point was that if you're a man who identifies as a woman, you can use the women's toilet? You'd still have a john thomas...

**Kilkrazy**

I thought the point is that you have to use the lavatory allocated to the gender declared on your birth certificate, whatever your current anatomical status.

**Nostromodamus**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I thought the point is that you have to use the lavatory allocated to the gender declared on your birth certificate, whatever your current anatomical status.

I dunno, the whole thing confuses me. Just have unisex toilets and be done with it.

**Mdlbuildr**

In the USA this whole bathroom thing affects about 0.23% of the population.

If you have a P, use the bathroom designated for that equipment. If you have a V, use the bathroom corresponding to that equipment. If you absolutely have to use the V lavatory and you have P, make sure you sit down to pee, so no one freaks out. Done.

Taxpayer money down the toilet...

**Steve steveson**

A few thoughts come to mind.

1) "employees and guests". Please tell me they are not referring to customers as guests.

2) I do wonder what the fuss is about with women's toilets. Unlike urinals they all have stalls. If you are really worried why just about men spying on women. Why is women spying on women not a problem, or men on men? It's just stupid and a non issue.

3) The one we need to worry about, and the reason we don't want unisex toilets, women using men's bathrooms because of the queues for the ladies. Seriously women, go in, do your business and leave. What the hell are you doing in there that causes a queue like an iPhone launch?

**Mdlbuildr**

Deleted

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Steve steveson wrote:

Please tell me they are not referring to customers as guests.

They are. They want to feel like the millions they spend on psychologists to tell them how to attract more consumers to buy stuff is working. So they call customers "guests" now. Stupidity incarnate.

**Nostromodamus**

Steve steveson wrote:
1) "employees and guests". Please tell me they are not referring to customers as guests.

Since coming to the US I've encountered many businesses that refer to their customers as "guests". I found it odd at first too, but I suppose they're just trying to make customers feel more welcome and encourage employees to take better care of them. Meh, whatever, marketing shenanigans at work...

**Steve steveson**

Well, in that case Target, it's polite to offer your guest a drink. Mine's a double Jack and Coke.

**Frazzled**

Kanluwen wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
That's an interesting new euphemism for a snatch.

Back to the topic, what if I go to North Carolina to visit some of the ACW sites?

Bring bug spray, lots of it. LOTS of it. Mosquito season here in NC is godawful.

He won't they never listen, never realize bugs in the summer in the South are like our secret weapon against Moon based Space Nazis.

Well, in that case Target, it's polite to offer your guest a drink. Mine's a double Jack and Coke.

If I walked into a Target and they immediately slapped me witha rum and coke, I would spend lots more money there.

**Easy E**

Target has referred to customers as guest since pre- 21st century. They also call all their employees Team Members, no matter what level you are at. You have individual titles too, but you are all Team Members.