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http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/transgender-bathroom-rights_n_5492286.html

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/05/09/Poll-Americans-oppose-transgender-bathroom-laws-like-North-Carolinas/6571462799834/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/04/22/public-support-for-transgender-bathrooms-twirls-down-the-drain/

Here is the Reuters poll that you can look at and filter for yourself:

http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TM895Y16/filters/SEX:1|2,RESP_AGE:-9|-3/dates/20160325-20160425/type/day

Females ages 35-65+ are 42% of the poll. They are in favor 42.7% of BIOLOGICAL bathroom usage.

Females 18-34 only represent 23% of the poll. Therefore you cannot say that the majority are in favor of gender identification.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I included the CNN poll for reference vs the Reuters poll.

The reuters poll polled over 6,000 people, the CNN one only 1000.

Just in case you were wondering why I included it.

I am not sure those things say what you think they say. Especially that second link.

Here is a link to an article that links to the CNN poll

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/10/the-first-major-poll-on-bathroom-bills-is-here-and-its-good-news-for-transgender-advocates/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As I explained above, Dreadwinter, my reasoning for including it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes it says 57% support gender, but inly of 1000 people...and they do not give the breakdown of # of women polled from what I can tell.

The Reutwrs poll is, in my opinion, more accurate and detailed.

So 42 percent is the majority you were touting earlier?

Because unless my math is wrong 42 percent is not a majority it usually has to be above 50

You keep linking things that support my side of this argument.

 Dreadwinter wrote:


Hwhat? What do you think happens to kids when they go through puberty? I definitely never considered raping or gang raping anybody during it. I believe I could speak for most of my classmates in also saying that never crossed their minds.

A Transgender Male has female anatomy and is genetically a female.

- A group of teenage males is changing and one of them disrobes and has breast and a vagina. At 16 years old, I would bet that one of the males gets sexually aroused.


A Transgender Female has male anatomy and is genetically male.

- A group of females are changing and one of them has male genitalia and is not homosexual. At 16 years I would bet that that Transgender Female will get sexually aroused around all these naked women. As a physically more powerful individual, this could present an issue. At 16, it may not be so easy to control the arousal state, as any male who has been 16 can tell you.

So how is Europe dealing with all these rapes?

I urge all of you to go watch the film "Boys Don't Cry".

It is a true life story about a Transgender Male who was killed by "his" friends after they found out "he" was biologically female.

It predates these discussions by many years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
So how is Europe dealing with all these rapes?

It has nothing to do with rape, sir. It has to do with an individuals rights to privacy and the laws on "lewd behavior".

If I, as a non transgender, would go into a women's bathroom right now with an erection and expose it to a female, in most state, I can be arrested.

If this should happen to a Transgender Female in a women's locker room, what does the Law state?

Mdlbuildr wrote:

A Transgender Male has female anatomy and is genetically a female.

- A group of teenage males is changing and one of them disrobes and has breast and a vagina. At 16 years old, I would bet that one of the males gets sexually aroused.


A Transgender Female has male anatomy and is genetically male.

- A group of females are changing and one of them has male genitalia and is not homosexual. At 16 years I would bet that that Transgender Female will get sexually aroused around all these naked women. As a physically more powerful individual, this could present an issue. At 16, it may not be so easy to control the arousal state, as any male who has been 16 can tell you.

Replace the trans in your examples with gays, and toy have exactly what's been happening in change rooms for as long as there have been change rooms.

So, again, what issue are you complaining about, exactly?

 insaniak wrote:

Can you find any reports of women in change rooms being assaulted by Transgender people before
before now?

http://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo

Mdlbuildr wrote:
I urge all of you to go watch the film "Boys Don't Cry".

It is a true life story...

No, it isn't. It's a dramatisation of a true story.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So how is Europe dealing with all these rapes?

It has nothing to do with rape, sir. It has to do with an individuals rights to privacy and the laws on "lewd behavior".

Then what's the point of bring up, over and over again, that the man with the erection is able to overpower the women but not the men?

If I, as a non transgender, would go into a women's bathroom right now with an erection and expose it to a female, in most state, I can be arrested.

If this should happen to a Transgender Female in a women's locker, what does the Law state?

You, as a non-transgender, can be arrested for walking around the men's bathroom with an erection that you are exposing to males. The same laws that keep you from shaking your erect penis in my face RIGHT NOW also keep you from shaking your erect penis in the face of anybody else, regardless of gender.

Are we seriously pretending that it's legal for me to walk around the restroom at Target with my penis hanging out of my pants, or that it's legal for me to walk around the locker room at my YMCA with an erection pointing at everybody in the room?

I don't know what kind of gym you are going to, but it needs to be investigated if you guys are just hanging out with your Johnson out.

 insaniak wrote:

Replace the trans in your examples with gays, and toy have exactly what's been happening in change rooms for as long as there have been change rooms.

So, again, what issue are you complaining about, exactly?

Gays are the same gender biologically.

Men are more powerful than women. A Transgender Female has male hormones (for the most part) and is not biologically a female. Therefore they can, and in some instances will overpower someone they may feel they can. It even happens in same gender situations.

I'm not complaining. I'm presenting an argument. Do not make this into a personal attack. If we can't have a discussion and not resort to "stop complaining", then it's not a very reasonable discussion. You are attempting to shut down my argument because you don't agree or understand it.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Replace the trans in your examples with gays, and toy have exactly what's been happening in change rooms for as long as there have been change rooms.

So, again, what issue are you complaining about, exactly?

Gays are the same gender biologically.

Men are more powerful than women. A Transgender Female has male hormones (for the most part) and is not biologically a female. Therefore they can, and in some instances will overpower someone they may feel they can. It even happens in same gender situations.

I'm not complaining. I'm presenting an argument. Do not make this into a personal attack. If we can't have a discussion and not resort to "stop complaining", then it's not a very reasonable discussion. You are attempting to shut down my argument because you don't agree or understand it.

So how is Europe dealing with the pandemic or women being overpowered in bathrooms?

 d-usa wrote:

So how is Europe dealing with the pandemic or women being overpowered in bathrooms?

You are not making any attempt to understand the argument, sir. Either that, or you don't understand the issue altogether.

The potential is there. There are examples. Discounting the possibility of it doesn't negate that possibility.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Can you find any reports of women in change rooms being assaulted by Transgender people before
before now?

http://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo

I would recommend actually reading an article before presenting it as evidence...

 insaniak wrote:

No, it isn't. It's a dramatisation of a true story.

The outcome of the story was identical. The young lady was killed by her friends. Do you know differently?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Can you find any reports of women in change rooms being assaulted by Transgender people before
before now?

http://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo

I would recommend actually reading an article before presenting it as evidence...

How so?

I suspect they treat them (if they have happened) much like the other sexual assaults (1/3 of women surveyed) and sexual harassment (55% of women surveyed) in europe....they go largely unreported.

http://m.france24.com/en/20140305-one-third-women-eu-victims-sexual-violence-crime-rape

And you should be asking "Why are they so under reported?"

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

So how is Europe dealing with the pandemic or women being overpowered in bathrooms?

You are not making any attempt to understand the argument, sir. Either that, or you don't understand the issue altogether.

The potential is there.

There is the potential of you being a rapist as well

There are examples.

Awesome, can't wait to see the statistics of how Europe has been impacted by these potential women being potentially overpowered.

Discounting the possibility of it doesn't negate that possibility.

Discounting the possibility of you being a rapist doesn't negate the possibility of you being a rapist.

If you are comfortable painting transgender males as potential rapists, then you surely won't mind joining them in the potential rapist category.

Or we could stop pretending that a sign on a bathroom is going to stop anyone that wants to expose his erect penis to a woman before overpowering her and doing whatever men with erect penises do to women once they are overpowered.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

Gays are the same gender biologically.

Men are more powerful than women. A Transgender Female has male hormones (for the most part) and is not biologically a female. Therefore they can, and in some instances will overpower someone they may feel they can. It even happens in same gender situations.

By this logic, no woman is ever safe from attack by any man in her vicinity who happens to be aroused by her.

I'm not sure about where you live, but around here most people don't actually assault everyone around then who they feel that they can overpower...

I'm also a little dubious about the logic of claiming that guys won't get assaulted by Gays because they can overpower them. I've met a few gay guys I sure as hell wouldn't want to go up against in a fight...

I'm not complaining. I'm presenting an argument. Do not make this into a personal attack. If we can't have a discussion and not resort to "stop complaining", then it's not a very reasonable discussion. You are attempting to shut down my argument because you don't agree or understand it.

There is nothing personal in any of my responses. I'm disagreeing with your argument. That's how discussion works.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
I suspect they treat them (if they have happened) much like the other sexual assaults (1/3 of women surveyed) and sexual harassment (55% of women surveyed) in europe....they go largely unreported.

http://m.france24.com/en/20140305-one-third-women-eu-victims-sexual-violence-crime-rape

And you should be asking "Why are they so under reported?"

To add to your point, sir, there have been many reports of crimes not being recorded by Authorities to keep certain quotas. For funding reasons, etc. These are well documented. All of Europe, Australia and Japan.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
I suspect they treat them (if they have happened) much like the other sexual assaults (1/3 of women surveyed) and sexual harassment (55% of women surveyed) in europe....they go largely unreported.

http://m.france24.com/en/20140305-one-third-women-eu-victims-sexual-violence-crime-rape

And you should be asking "Why are they so under reported?"

So if the United States Military gets rid of mixed-gender locker rooms and showers and bathrooms, male soldiers will stop raping women soldiers?

I am slowly beginning to think that Mdlbuildr believes all men are animals and cannot/should not be trusted around women and children without supervision.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
I suspect they treat them (if they have happened) much like the other sexual assaults (1/3 of women surveyed) and sexual harassment (55% of women surveyed) in europe....they go largely unreported.

http://m.france24.com/en/20140305-one-third-women-eu-victims-sexual-violence-crime-rape

And you should be asking "Why are they so under reported?"

To add to your point, sir, there have been many reports of crimes not being recorded by Authorities to keep certain quotas. For funding reasons, etc. These are well documented. All of Europe, Australia and Japan.

Can you add that source to your other sources?

 d-usa wrote:

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

So how is Europe dealing with the pandemic or women being overpowered in bathrooms?

You are not making any attempt to understand the argument, sir. Either that, or you don't understand the issue altogether.

The potential is there.

There is the potential of you being a rapist as well

There are examples.

Awesome, can't wait to see the statistics of how Europe has been impacted by these potential women being potentially overpowered.

Discounting the possibility of it doesn't negate that possibility.

Discounting the possibility of you being a rapist doesn't negate the possibility of you being a rapist.

If you are comfortable painting transgender males as potential rapists, then you surely won't mind joining them in the potential rapist category.

Or we could stop pretending that a sign on a bathroom is going to stop anyone that wants to expose his erect penis to a woman before overpowering her and doing whatever men with erect penises do to women once they are overpowered.

Ad hominem attacks rather than presenting a reasonable argument. Very interesting way to have a discussion.

Of the 5 reports, only #1 doesn't have actions that are against the law.

However....it also reeks to me of a perv taking advantage of the law.

If he truly identified as a woman, would he not live life as a woman...dress as a woman...etc?

Rather than go to the pool in "board shorts" and not a feminine one or two piece bathing suit.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
I am slowly beginning to think that Mdlbuildr believes all men are animals and cannot/should not be trusted around women and children without supervision.

Thank you for attacking me and not reading what I wrote initially. I am presenting an argument. Whether these are my opinions are irrelevant to this discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheMeanDM wrote:

However....it also reeks to me of a perv taking advantage of the law.

Which is exactly the point. The argument isn't that Transgender will rape or will do harm. It is that it will give license to those that will who aren't Transgenders.

That has been the whole point all along.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
I am slowly beginning to think that Mdlbuildr believes all men are animals and cannot/should not be trusted around women and children without supervision.

Thank you for attacking me and not reading what I wrote initially. I am presenting an argument. Whether these are my opinions are irrelevant to this discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheMeanDM wrote:

However....it also reeks to me of a perv taking advantage of the law.

Which is exactly the point. The argument isn't that Transgender will rape or will do harm. It is that it will give license to those that will who aren't Transgenders.

That has been the whole point all along.

Seeing how fervently you and DM are trying to defend said positions it is pretty easy to say that those are your positions

 insaniak wrote:

There is nothing personal in any of my responses. I'm disagreeing with your argument. That's how discussion works.

By saying "what are complaining about?", you aren't giving validity to the argument. It is not a complaint. It is point of discussion. You are passive aggressively trying to "win" an argument by minimizing an opinion.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

Gays are the same gender biologically.

Except that they aren't.... Here you are conflating sex with gender.