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He still has male parts. There's something like a 3 year waiting list, so he would be using the men's locker room with female junk even now.

Because the majority of trans people that I know aren't going to want to draw attention to themselves, so they'll get changed from their women's day clothes into their women's sports equipment in as subtle a way as possible. They aren't walking around slapping people round the face with their dick, they're trying to get changed without being beaten up for wearing a dress.

 Frazzled wrote:


Its a weird thread. Its a weird issue, and frankly an extremely rare one. Politicians and SJWs have seized upon it to get their various groups angry,

Yeah, it's not the Religious Right whatsoever.

Which leaves us in the odd situation where they'll be protesting/restricting where Caitlyn Jenner at el can get dressed/undressed whilst Dennis Hastert will be fine and dandy to ...welll perhaps come and go isn't the best phrase here ...

 Frazzled wrote:
[ The issue I have for consideration is locker rooms, primarily in public schools which are open environments for changing and showering, and nonvoluntary.

how many transgender people of that age are there ?

 Goliath wrote:
He still has male parts. There's something like a 3 year waiting list, so he would be using the men's locker room with female junk even now.

Because the majority of trans people that I know aren't going to want to draw attention to themselves, so they'll get changed from their women's day clothes into their women's sports equipment in as subtle a way as possible. They aren't walking around slapping people round the face with their dick, they're trying to get changed without being beaten up for wearing a dress.

How has that been received? I take it that person does not use communal showers (showers there may not be communal). Any persons brought up an issue there?
This is what I am really looking for-has it been an issue? If so, where locationally? My dad was an engineer and I have a good bit of that -where's the problem and lets fix it as inexpensively as possible.

This is my personal view. I'd bet good money no woman has made a beef of it. (pardon the pun). I further think with minimum effort some simple curtains can be installed on existing locker rooms/showers to add privacy such that all issues are addressed. Thats my beef, that if there's an issue here, it can be easily fixed, but everyone's using this as an excuse to get indignant and butthurt, and not solving the potential issues.

I think there are separate issues for F to M in a locker room situation too that should be addressed, but that doesn't seem to be coming up. I have safety concerns for that person. Men and boys are pigs and violent ones at that. If we are going to do this, the additional safety concerns need to be reviewed as well. Frankly, on the men's side they need to be reviewed in the same context to better address bullying.

 skyth wrote:


He just used your own definition of a potential rapist on you and found you met the definition. If that bothers you maybe you should stop accusing all transgenders of being potential rapists.

Please quote specifically where I am accusing any Transgenders of being potential rapists. Thank you.

I am not responsible for what people imply from statements or what they assume from them.

The reading comprehension in this thread is atrocious.I have said time and time again that non-transgenders will use the transgender laws to justify being somewhere they shouldn't be. This was the stated purpose of the article I posted. I don't get how this is such a hard concept to grasp. Clearly it is.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 skyth wrote:


He just used your own definition of a potential rapist on you and found you met the definition. If that bothers you maybe you should stop accusing all transgenders of being potential rapists.

Please quote specifically where I am accusing any Transgenders of being rapists. Thank you.

I am not responsiblefor what people imply from statements or what they assume from them.

You're right, you're not responsible for what people imply, but don't be surprised when a majority of people infer you're calling all able bodied men rapists and then get pissed at you.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 skyth wrote:


He just used your own definition of a potential rapist on you and found you met the definition. If that bothers you maybe you should stop accusing all transgenders of being potential rapists.

Please quote specifically where I am accusing any Transgenders of being rapists. Thank you.

Uh, OK?

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Men are more powerful than women. A Transgender Female has male hormones (for the most part) and is not biologically a female. Therefore they can, and in some instances will overpower someone they may feel they can.

Unless you're going to move the goalposts from what Skyth posted you accurately said ("potential rapists") to what you're now saying "rapists". I mean, that would be incredibly intellectually dishonest so I apologize for even thinking you might do that.

 Frazzled wrote:

I believe this might be the first time that various conservative administrations pushing these laws have been referred to as SJW's. Truly, when I think of social justice, the first states that come to mind are Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, and so on.

Both Houston and Charlotte passed laws mandating protections for Ts. Recent court cases also mandated that Ts could use the same locker rooms as women. The rest is politicain inspired blowback. Now the DOJ is threatening all school districts everywhere to get with the program.

....

I was reading an article on that well-known haunt of SJWism The Grauniad that said North Carolina actually is a pretty relaxed, non-SIW state on the whole but that since the rise of the Tea Party, the state's otherwise laid-back Republicans had for their own survival been forced to take up the cudgels on this type of actually fairly unpopular and irrelevant social issue.

As you say, the ironic result of bringing in this legislation has been not to crush the evil wave of miscegevacuation, but to provoke a nuclear response from the Federal Govt that will ram through everywhere the opposite of what the SIW legislators wanted.

 Ouze wrote:
I mean, that would be incredibly intellectually dishonest so I apologize for even thinking you might do that.

I can hear the dripping sarcasm from here.

I like it.

I inferred no such thing. If anything, D-Usa is making that inference.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
As you say, the ironic result of bringing in this legislation has been not to crush the evil wave of miscegevacuation, but to provoke a nuclear response from the Federal Govt that will ram through everywhere the opposite of what the SIW legislators wanted.

Ah, the ol "SJW double fakeout". A classic.

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Please quote specifically where I am accusing any Transgenders of being rapists. Thank you.

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Men are more powerful than women. A Transgender Female has male hormones (for the most part) and is not biologically a female. Therefore they can, and in some instances will overpower someone they may feel they can.

Mdlbuildr wrote:
I inferred no such thing.

Not sure how anyone could get the impression you did.

Yeah, it's not the Religious Right whatsoever.

Oh it is. Don't get me started on the groups that seems to suddenly have discovered 'pervs." More importantly its politicians have seized on this as their moral issue of the moment to maintain their popularity. Inversely we have activiists in the DOJ pushing a massive cultural change by fiat. Thats a major issue to me, far more relevant than this topic-but no one will discuss that one...

Which leaves us in the odd situation where they'll be protesting/restricting where Caitlyn Jenner at el can get dressed/undressed whilst Dennis Hastert will be fine and dandy to ...welll perhaps come and go isn't the best phrase here ...

Interesting that C Jenner is now considering "changing back." Lets not go there as I think literally everyone in that family is doing everything they can to stay in the media spotlight.

 Frazzled wrote:
[ The issue I have for consideration is locker rooms, primarily in public schools which are open environments for changing and showering, and nonvoluntary.

how many transgender people of that age are there ?

Mdlbuildr wrote:
I inferred no such thing. If anything, D-Usa is making that inference.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:


Hwhat? What do you think happens to kids when they go through puberty? I definitely never considered raping or gang raping anybody during it. I believe I could speak for most of my classmates in also saying that never crossed their minds.

- A group of females are changing and one of them has male genitalia and is not homosexual. At 16 years I would bet that that Transgender Female will get sexually aroused around all these naked women. As a physically more powerful individual, this could present an issue. At 16, it may not be so easy to control the arousal state, as any male who has been 16 can tell you.

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Men are more powerful than women. A Transgender Female has male hormones (for the most part) and is not biologically a female. Therefore they can, and in some instances will overpower someone they may feel they can. It even happens in same gender situations.

Emphasis mine.

If one points out that green people are much stronger than blue people, and that stronger people are known to overpower others, it is not in the slightest bit strange to assume that they are implying that green people are liable to overpower blue people. *Especially* when you then literally say the words "In some cases they will overpower someone they may feel they can".

Quit your false outrage and make better arguments. Your current method of "Oh, I'm not *actually* arguing that, you're just assuming I am! How dare you say that I implied that!" has gotten tedious.

As you say, the ironic result of bringing in this legislation has been not to crush the evil wave of miscegevacuation, but to provoke a nuclear response from the Federal Govt that will ram through everywhere the opposite of what the SIW legislators wanted.

Yep. But they like that too. Now they can rail against the federal government and Evilz Obama. Its a twoffer for them.
Remember, its not about doing something. Its that faux (or even better real) outrage keeps you elected.

EDIT: Goliath can you go back to my earlier post as I had questions on how that person was being treated.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Goliath wrote:
He still has male parts. There's something like a 3 year waiting list, so he would be using the men's locker room with female junk even now.

Because the majority of trans people that I know aren't going to want to draw attention to themselves, so they'll get changed from their women's day clothes into their women's sports equipment in as subtle a way as possible. They aren't walking around slapping people round the face with their dick, they're trying to get changed without being beaten up for wearing a dress.

How has that been received? I take it that person does not use communal showers (showers there may not be communal). Any persons brought up an issue there?
This is what I am really looking for-has it been an issue? If so, where locationally? My dad was an engineer and I have a good bit of that -where's the problem and lets fix it as inexpensively as possible.

This is my personal view. I'd bet good money no woman has made a beef of it. (pardon the pun). I further think with minimum effort some simple curtains can be installed on existing locker rooms/showers to add privacy such that all issues are addressed. Thats my beef, that if there's an issue here, it can be easily fixed, but everyone's using this as an excuse to get indignant and butthurt, and not solving the potential issues.

I think there are separate issues for F to M in a locker room situation too that should be addressed, but that doesn't seem to be coming up. I have safety concerns for that person. Men and boys are pigs and violent ones at that. If we are going to do this, the additional safety concerns need to be reviewed as well. Frankly, on the men's side they need to be reviewed in the same context to better address bullying.

Honestly, I don't know. I haven't seen them in person for a few months whilst I'm on placement, so we haven't talked about a huge amount other than occasionally discussing movies or One Piece.

A shame. I would have loved to get this person's testimony on how Real Life handles this, and my thought on curtains handling most of the issue.

What is placement?

I doubt a trans person would want to draw attention to themselves especially after some of the things posted in here by people

How are they drawing attention to themselves by having a conversation? How does that even make sense when it comes to pushing increased civil rights? You by nature have to draw attention to yourself.

Further, I don't think anyone has said anything negative about Ts on this thread. Admittedly I tend to often skim posts.

 Frazzled wrote:
How are they drawing attention to themselves by having a conversation? How does that even make sense when it comes to pushing increased civil rights? You by nature have to draw attention to yourself.

Further, I don't think anyone has said anything negative about Ts on this thread. Admittedly I tend to often skim posts.

Well when you got people calling you a rapist, a perv, not your true gender etc I am sure it gets to you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It hasn't been said forthright but you can tell some people have implied a disdain for them.

Well when you got people calling you a rapist, a perv, not your true gender etc I am sure it gets to you.

Thats why they need to share their stories.

 Ustrello wrote:
I doubt a trans person would want to draw attention to themselves especially after some of the things posted in here by people

Yet, as a group, Transgenders are at the top of just about every headline for the past while. Yet Bruce Jenner posts that he used the women's bathroom at Trump Tower in NYC on Twitter and it makes national headlines.

The attention this issue is garnering is unprecedented.

Just the fact that on a Forum for miniature wargaming, there is one full thread being dedicated to this topic in the Off Topic section is a testament to the popularity of this topic.

Mdlbuildr wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
I doubt a trans person would want to draw attention to themselves especially after some of the things posted in here by people

Yet, as a group, Transgenders are at the top of just about every headline for the past while. Yet Bruce Jenner posts that he used the women's bathroom at Trump Tower in NYC on Twitter and it makes national headlines.

The attention this issue is garnering is unprecedented.

Just the fact that on a Forum for miniature wargaming, there is one full thread being dedicated to this topic in the Off Topic section is a testament to the popularity of this topic.

Sure but then again we got people like you calling her bruce and a he so...

 Frazzled wrote:


I think there are separate issues for F to M in a locker room situation too that should be addressed, but that doesn't seem to be coming up. I have safety concerns for that person. Men and boys are pigs and violent ones at that. If we are going to do this, the additional safety concerns need to be reviewed as well. Frankly, on the men's side they need to be reviewed in the same context to better address bullying.

See, this is the crux of the issue... No one cares about FtM because those who have problems with Transgender people in general like FtM in the men's bathroom where they can get harassed and violenced 'like they deserve'. None of these advocates of these 'junk-check' positions are doing so out of the concern for transgender people.

The harassment of 'male-looking women' breaking out all over is showing the true attitude is:
*All women who look like men need to be in the MENs room.
*All men who look like women need to be in the MENs room.

Basically, all people who are different need to go to the MENs room for doling out of locker-room justice.

The world was just fine when people minded their business and wasn't junk-checking people in the bathroom. People were held responsible for actions they did, not potential actions they could possibly due as if their genitals had minds of their own. If someone was raping, peeping, harassing, you call the police, and if those people were talking dumps and peeing, they go about their business. It seems funny that people who are calling police or attacking people are doing so when the person LOOKS male in the women's bathroom... But they advocate Junk Check. If the person LOOKED FEMALE I suspect they would have let them go about their business.

This has never been about protecting transgender people or children. It has always been about causing hardship for a group who wants equal rights through fear, boogeymen and making it easier to target them with backlash violence.

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Yet Bruce Jenner posts that he used the women's bathroom at Trump Tower in NYC on Twitter and it makes national headlines.

And with that, we know everything we need to know about you.

Bruce is detransitioning back to a male. Or at least that's what I've read in various media outlets.

He is Bruce.

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Bruce is detransitioning back to a male. Or at least that's what I've read in various media outlets.

He is Bruce.

Literally googling that proves it to be false, its not that hard.

and by various media you mean FOX

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Bruce is detransitioning back to a male. Or at least that's what I've read in various media outlets.

He is Bruce.

Something easily debunked, and something which is being used to propagate violence against transgender by bigots.

http://www.salon.com/2016/05/16/stop_these_caitlyn_jenner_rumors_spreading_gossip_on_transgender_peoples_struggles_endangers_lives/

http://reportquickly.com/caitlyn-jenner-is-transitioning-back-to-bruce-jenner/

http://www.thewrap.com/caitlyn-jenner-experienced-sex-change-regret-might-de-transition-biographer-says/

http://www.etonline.com/news/180099_caitlyn_jenner_over_dating_women_mourns_life_as_bruce_jenner_i_am_cait_promo/

nkelsch wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:


I think there are separate issues for F to M in a locker room situation too that should be addressed, but that doesn't seem to be coming up. I have safety concerns for that person. Men and boys are pigs and violent ones at that. If we are going to do this, the additional safety concerns need to be reviewed as well. Frankly, on the men's side they need to be reviewed in the same context to better address bullying.

See, this is the crux of the issue... No one cares about FtM because those who have problems with Transgender people in general like FtM in the men's bathroom where they can get harassed and violenced 'like they deserve'. None of these advocates of these 'junk-check' positions are doing so out of the concern for transgender people.

The harassment of 'male-looking women' breaking out all over is showing the true attitude is:
*All women who look like men need to be in the MENs room.
*All men who look like women need to be in the MENs room.

Basically, all people who are different need to go to the MENs room for doling out of locker-room justice.

The world was just fine when people minded their business and wasn't junk-checking people in the bathroom. People were held responsible for actions they did, not potential actions they could possibly due as if their genitals had minds of their own. If someone was raping, peeping, harassing, you call the police, and if those people were talking dumps and peeing, they go about their business. It seems funny that people who are calling police or attacking people are doing so when the person LOOKS male in the women's bathroom... But they advocate Junk Check. If the person LOOKED FEMALE I suspect they would have let them go about their business.

This has never been about protecting transgender people or children. It has always been about causing hardship for a group who wants equal rights through fear, boogeymen and making it easier to target them with backlash violence.

I was with you on this rant until you said "junk check." Maybe its the fact I deal with a bunch of hockey loving Canadians but that took me out of the topic and into a painful high (or low in this case) stick maneuver on the ice. OWIE!

We have to disagree on part of that. I think there is a definite group of women who might have an issue (or not) but have not been asked, and of course the legal aspects of the DOJ attempting to cram a major social shift by fiat. There is also the religious aspect of persons who CANNOT be around members of the opposite sex in a nude context in any manner, or even alone with members of the opposite sex. As there are at least two growing religious groups in the country with that (Mormons and Muslims), that is an issue that has to be addressed as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Yet Bruce Jenner posts that he used the women's bathroom at Trump Tower in NYC on Twitter and it makes national headlines.

And with that, we know everything we need to know about you.

Actually per the usual rags, Jenner is going back to or contemplating going back to being Bruce.

Or if you two literally just google it she is saying she isn't. But that would be too difficult I guess.

Because I have a strict policy about googling the Kardassians. Cardassians, however I googled just last week. 'Wait how does one have hunger and food shortages, but able to have a multiyear war with an organization that uses replicators for food and manufacturing-aka a post scarcity economy? You should have had your keisters handed to you." Things Frazzled gets confused by.

I think it was on GMA yesterday (took the day off).