Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Any confirmation on the new ork flyer stats and points ?

And what the new ork formation are / special rules ?

The stormhawk costs 125 points and comes with: Twin linked assault cannon, twin linked heavy bolter, "super laser thing" (24", S9, AP2, Heavy 2), Ceraminte plating, and one ítem that allow the stormhawk reroll when jinking. Has the supersonic special rule.
May exchange the laser thing for an Icurus Cannon for 155 points. May exchange the heavy bolter for a Typhoon missile launcher for +20 points or for a Celestial hammer missile thrower for +5 points.



About the ork flyer:
140 points 12/10/10 3HP
(Cannot translate the ork weapons)
Twin-linked 36", S8, AP2, Heavy 1, Blast, Gets hot
1x 36" S1D6+4, AP1, Heavy1
5++ vs one single hit each enemy shooting phase (May be exchanged for an ork energy shield 5++ to be bearer and all models at 6" for +25 points)

and can other chapters....BA and SW etc use them?
Looks like, but they have to be taken as part of the detachment mentioned before.
The book says that all the flyers described in this book replace their Data Sheets in all the current codex. Seems that this rules are coming to stay.

inq.serge wrote:Bought mine today. When are they supposed to release it anyway?

On Attack patterns:

2 planes:

->
>-

*one gets +1bs (against appropriate target) and +1 to jink save.

3 planes:
-----
>>>
-----
* Flat out and Shoot/bomb (appropriate target) at full bs

>--
-->
>--

* Tank hunter vs appropriate target / Reroll to pen rolls with bombs

->-
->-
->-

* Shooting/Bombs Ignore cover vs appropriate target


4 planes:

-->--
---->
-->--
->---

* one gets +1bs (against appropriate target) and +1 to jink save. + all get Tank hunter vs appropriate target / Reroll to pen rolls with bombs and Shooting/Bombs Ignore cover vs appropriate target

>-->
-----
>-->

* 4++, IWND, Interceptor (on all)

->-
->-
->-
->-

* Pick one unit that all 4 planes have LoS to. PERMANENT preferred enemy against ANY unit of it's kind. (I.E: You pick ONE Tactical squad, You get permanent Preferred Enemy on ALL Tactical squads for the rest of the battle).

All planes in the attack pattern must be from same formation or attack wing.

Attack wing: 2-4 planes (all same). Flyers can now be bought in units of 1-4 per slot, but they only count as attack wing if they are 2+. Attack wings may use Attack patterns. One flyer gets "Wing leader", wich is a free "Fighter ace" equivalent. Fighter ace, as we know it, is not in the book, instead, it's a campaign bonus. (There are 3 bonuses to randomize from on the wing leader table. The campaign fighter ace has 6, and you can earn all 6 by becoming a Top Gun (Kill 30 flyers during a campaign without dying)).

NOTE: Flyers from same attack wing do not follow rules for squadrons, or count as a single unit, nor do they need to be in coherency. (unless they want to benefit from attack patterns.)

The flyer detachment consists 1-3 attack wings. All from same codex/faction. (Formations count as attack wings).
So now, you can have a pair of any flyer as a separate detachment!

I.E: on attack wings.

2-4 razorwings is an attack wing.
2-4 voidravens is an attackwing.
1 razorwing + 1 voidraven is not an attack wing, and thus, can't benefit from attack patterns.
3 razorwings + 1 voidraven, the razorwings is an attack wing, the voidraven isn't.
However, there's a 2 Razor-2 voidraven formation, where they all count as the same attack wing, and thus benefit from attack patterns.

On appropriate targets: flying targets for fighters , ground targets for attack craft.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh joy, more formation types that demand you to clutter up the table with more models.

I would wish they would bring back epic and make the game more like 40k in pre 6th ed. It was much more simple back then, and the table didn't look like a cluttered mess with all the formations and the apoc units.

inq.serge wrote:The dog-fight rules only mention Flyers. So I doubt about FMC.

Haven't looked up the vendetta (even though I have a vendetta myself. I HAVE 12 FLYERS!)

There are 6 flyer missions/Scenarios, and a mini-campaign. There's the Flyer detachment, but no rules for turn 1 entry (unless there's something in the missions.). So,unless you play craftworlders with FW, and have a pair of lynxes, who may start on the table, all-flyers is a no-go.

Wing leaders are pretty much on par, but slightly worse, than the old fighter aces. There are different for every army, (even for different flyers in some cases), but they are on par with +1bs vs appropriate target.

Bale flamer does what Jon Snow knows: Nothing. The whole dog fight phase, is; You roll to see who's the attacker, the attacker picks one of his flyers (Usually a fighter), and one of the enemies (Usually a
bomber, unless facing DE shenanigans), and both must be in reserve. Then you roll dice and bluff to decide distance between the flyers, facing (Gives bonuses. If a non-fighter outmanoeuvres an enemy, it may shoot at full BS, otherwise only snap. Fighters may always shoot at full BS.), Facing affects which facing you hit and what weapons you may fire (Suddenly, rear mounted weapons got relevant), and then, who shoots first (And only shoot! No Vector strikes! Templates can't hit flyers!). If one goes down: 2-5 It's ded! All passengers ded to!, 1: Opponent places the downed flyer in downed flyers deployment zone, no closer than 1" from units, then roll for crash and burn. on a 6; same, but you place your downed flier in the opponents deployment zone.

1 dogfight per turns, so even if you have 5 planes and your opponent 3, only 1 per side will dogfight per turn.

inq.serge wrote:Necrons are not as fast as eldar, but fast, however, they're not manoeuvrable, slightly more than the flying furrie containers.

Their formation lets you "Teleport" vehicles like their transport fliers teleport footsoldiers.

inq.serge wrote:Flyer wings are 2-4 of the same flyer, or a flyer formation (of usually 4 flyers).

The Furry formation gives movement bonuses for things assaulting from the transports, and movement penalties to those hit by snowballs.

Fighters are the only ones who get to keep skyfire, but get -1bs vs ground. (the rest only snap at flyers)

inq.serge wrote:Time to start smashing the panic button; It's not in!!! (Note: He's talking about the Vendetta)

Also; Bombers differ in being worse at dogfights and getting other bonuses from attack patterns.

inq.serge wrote:1; The 2-flyer attack pattern gives bombers +1st on their bombs, not +1bs. And only Bombs, no other weapons.

2; Attack patterns start once you end a movement phase in that pattern, and lasts until the end of your next movement phase. Thus; Bombers won't benefit from their attack pattern bonuses (I.E: ignore cover) on their bombing runs when they arrive from reserve, AND, almost all their attack pattern bonuses only apply to their bombs. Bombers truly got the short stick here.

3: Stunned/shaken fliers also temporarily lower their Pursuit/Agility to 0.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
No more Vendetta according to that. Wonder if it'll just be a Valkyrie able to upgrade to the same load out.

 Virules wrote:
So if I understand all this right, GW managed the impossible by finding a way to make Heldrakes even worse and more overcosted relative to other fliers?

 Nocturnus wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh joy, more formation types that demand you to clutter up the table with more models.

I would wish they would bring back epic and make the game more like 40k in pre 6th ed. It was much more simple back then, and the table didn't look like a cluttered mess with all the formations and the apoc units.

Totally agree. While the flyer models are nice, there's no real need for them in a 28mm game.

mercury14 wrote:
My god the Dark Eldar flyers are bad under these rules. Horrid. The Razorwing has a load of blast missiles and poison that it can't even shoot at flyers and somehow that makes it a Fighter. And it gets BS3 to hit ground targets now.

The Void Raven was the better AA flyer and now it lost skyfire. And since it's in the Bomber role it gets no bonuses... other than a potential squadron bonus of a puny +1S on its single bomb (except it can't use it the turn it comes in. The Void raven went from irrelevant to utter crap. Wow. Just... Wow...

Looking at Forgeworld, the Phoenix Bomber doesn't have any bombs. So it will literally lose skyfire and get *nothing*. And it was overpriced to begin with. Glad I just started painting one up.

Wow.

 CragHack wrote:
So far this whole supplement feels like it's some Kirby-era aftershock

 Virules wrote:
So if I understand all this right, GW managed the impossible by finding a way to make Heldrakes even worse and more overcosted relative to other fliers?

 Virules wrote:
So if I understand all this right, GW managed the impossible by finding a way to make Heldrakes even worse and more overcosted relative to other fliers?

 Nocturnus wrote:

 Virules wrote:
So if I understand all this right, GW managed the impossible by finding a way to make Heldrakes even worse and more overcosted relative to other fliers?

The Chaos hate continues...
So if I read that right, there's no reason to take a baleflamer anymore? Simply bizarre...