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Hi all, got into 30k ages ago and played salamanders, but have since shifted to mechanicum.

However, I wanted to dust of the salamanders and expand them a bit.
Got a few 1,200 point games coming up and I wanted to get some input on Cassian and his uses.

I know he is slow, costs more than a basic land raider and has limited range, but do his special rules and buffed stats make up for it?
From what I can see, he is nigh impossible to kill quickly due to having front AV14 (on a dreadnought!) Plus immunity to extra dice from armourbane etc, or having his armour reduced from lance etc.

Granted this will leave me with just over 900 points left, but is he worth it?


In my mind it gives me a solid base for my army, but he is somewhat slow and unless in combat, won't do all that much.



Hoping some of you have used him and have some ideas.


Thanks in advance.

yes he is pretty much the most awesome dreadnought in the game.

If you cant get side or rear shots he is very, very hard to destroy.

or bring D weapons to deal with a box dreadnought......

In 30k there is nothing strength D that can be taken in a 1,200 point game so he is pretty safe from that.

Side and rear shot wise, I'm tempted to wrap him with tactical, but that's mainly for the 5+ FNP they gain for him.

Once I take him and 2 basic TAC squads to fill the mandatory requirements its 675 points used, leaving me 525 to build the rest of my army.

Bare in mind he is vulnerable to ordnance weapons, only weapons that roll multiple d6 for penetration are negated, where as Ord rolls 2 entirely separate dice and you pick one, this is as per forge world explained it to me.

So beware of rapiers.

 Jackal wrote:
In 30k there is nothing strength D that can be taken in a 1,200 point game so he is pretty safe from that.

Knights.

Stick him close to a doredeo with pavaise and some footslogginf firedrakes, very hard to break block until the doredeo goes.

 Fruzzle wrote:
Stick him close to a doredeo with pavaise and some footslogginf firedrakes, very hard to break block until the doredeo goes.

Deredeo pavise only boosts infantry saves. I know because I really wanted to use him with my contemptors before I read that rule more closely

 Walnuts wrote:

 Fruzzle wrote:
Stick him close to a doredeo with pavaise and some footslogginf firedrakes, very hard to break block until the doredeo goes.

Deredeo pavise only boosts infantry saves. I know because I really wanted to use him with my contemptors before I read that rule more closely

Haha I did exactly the same thing

Whooops.....still 2++ fire drakes are.good

Until you hit 2k there are no LOW choices.
And even if there were, you couldn't get one until 1,600 with restrictions on 25%.
So that's covered.


Formosa - ordnance may be an issue.
Although, they still need to be hitting his front armour with S9+ to pen.
My other temptation was to run a fire raptor aswell to remove high priority targets.

This does however leave me with around 300 points to add to my army.
I'm thinking maybe a vindicator, laser vindicator and points for upgrades.


So I'd be looking at this for 1,200 points.

Cassian Dracos
10 man TAC squad
10 man TAC squad
Vindicator
Laser vindicator
Fire raptor gunship

Gives me around 60 points or so for upgrades here and there.
Should also cover my bases on anti tank and infantry I hope.

With the target saturation I'm hoping Dracos gets left alone long enough to do some damage.

 Fruzzle wrote:
Whooops.....still 2++ fire drakes are.good

Boosts saves to a max of 3++ this isn't 40k, no shenanigans like that allowed!

 Jackal wrote:
Until you hit 2k there are no LOW choices.
And even if there were, you couldn't get one until 1,600 with restrictions on 25%.
So that's covered.


Formosa - ordnance may be an issue.
Although, they still need to be hitting his front armour with S9+ to pen.
My other temptation was to run a fire raptor aswell to remove high priority targets.

This does however leave me with around 300 points to add to my army.
I'm thinking maybe a vindicator, laser vindicator and points for upgrades.


So I'd be looking at this for 1,200 points.

Cassian Dracos
10 man TAC squad
10 man TAC squad
Vindicator
Laser vindicator
Fire raptor gunship

Gives me around 60 points or so for upgrades here and there.
Should also cover my bases on anti tank and infantry I hope.

With the target saturation I'm hoping Dracos gets left alone long enough to do some damage.

For what it's worth, Knights in 30k have their own army list (and therefore do not require a Lord of War slot to bring always). You can bring two Knights in an allied detachment, for example, without needing a LoW slot.

Forgot about the questoris list where it designates them a specific slot rather than just LOW.

However, with the mandatory slot upgrades I don't think it's possible to run 3 knights at 1,200.
So that should prevent people hopefully.

If not, I'm hoping the laser vindicator and fire raptor can put pressure on a knight and get rid of it quickly.

You only need two knights to run that detachment.

I know, but even 2 fully kitted knights only comes to around 1k.
So they will be short on points and with no allies, they are at a disadvantage.

 Jackal wrote:
I know, but even 2 fully kitted knights only comes to around 1k.
So they will be short on points and with no allies, they are at a disadvantage.

IDK. Two Knight Atraposes (the ones with Ranged D) come out at 850. That's enough leftover points for very near 140 tech-thralls, or like 100 and a Magos to lead them at 1200 points.

You can squeeze 3 knights (with the HQ upgrade) into 1,200 easy.

Lancer seneschal, Castigator scion martial, and Gallant Scion Dolorous come out to exactly 1200 pts.

Imperial militia are also dirt cheap allies (and who doesn't have a bunch of old guardsmen laying around?).

A ten man platoon command squad with carapace armor and heavy stubbers, a 20 ma militia squad, and a leman russ come to a mere 285 pts.

As I said, no allies in this so no worries of cheap filler units being thrown in

I'll need to check the questoris book again then :(
Was pretty sure that with their rank upgrades they went over 1,200 easily as most knights are around 400. HQ upgrade is around 50 alone plus a troop one and a third choice too.

If so I may have to account for knights running about as that could potentially cause me some issues.

I'll run some numbers quick and check, but thanks for that, I was sure I checked them and they went over so I'll have to re-check to see what can be thrown into a knight list.

Oh ohhhhh, no allies allowed! I didn't realize that was a rule y'all were playing with, I thought you meant there'd be no allies because any knight list would leave you with an awkward amount of left over points that would be too small to squeeze in an HQ and a troop choice (considering 30k troops tend to be quite a bite more expensive than 40k troops).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And knights can get cheap, man, like, under 290-ish for that non-compulsory troop knight who has the sword and the fist. Even without going that cray, knights are mostly just over or just under 400, so squeezing three into 1200 is super easy. The HQ upgrade is 50 or 25, the basic troop is no extra cost (and he has obsec! a real 30k rarity), you can get a non-compulsory troop that is also 35 points cheaper, and there's a fast attack knight that is no extra points too. Anyway, unless you know some dude in your gaming group who has a full knight army that he really loves, I feel like that's a pretty unlikely force to have to face.

Don't forget that the 30k knight list also has only one compulsory troop.

True actually, its not just my group as its a pretty open comp.
I'm now half tempted to drop cassian and the raptor to save 500 points, then scrape points for 3 more laser vindicators and a cheap HQ.

12, S9 AP 1 ordnance shots from laser vindicators should cause plenty of pens a turn on knights.

Only worry is if there's a lancer with the upgraded inv save to his shield.


However, the vindicator should remove troops while the laser ones tear through armour.

Seems a tad excessive but I don't want to hit a snag the second something big hits the table.

I ran that lancer seneschal with the 3+ shield save (4+ in hand to hand) in the first 30k game I played, and he was a BEAST.

It was him, a castigator, then an allied blood angels detachment consisting of a jacked up praetorian with a jump pack, 20 man assault squad, and 20 man tactical squad in an 1850 point battle.

I was fighting iron hands with tons of artillery tanks and a mechanicus robot death star (whatever the hell those guys are called, they were T8 vs shooting thanks to inviolate armor :/)

Anyway, the artillery chewed up my blood angel infantry, but my knights stomped through his entire army letting me win handily

So no worries! I feel like you can't over-plan when it comes to dealing with knights. They're a real threat.