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Hunam0001 wrote:

You forgot Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Adeptus Mechanicus, Inquisition, and Harliquins.

As well, Orks can be very competitive against Necrons. Just not against Decurion Necrons.

Same goes for Vanilla Space Marines, White Scars, and Space Wolves.
It's more to do with Grav, Centurions, and Thunder Calv.

As for Tau, it's arguably Riptides and Stromsurges, but that Codex needs a re-do.

I'll concede Eldar.

Kind of, let me fix that for you in that sense then

Orks can not compete against any sort of competitive list from Eldar, Space Marines, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, White Scars, Necrons, Tau and SoB.
Orks CAN compete against competitive(ish) Tyranid, DE, IG and CSM.
Orks Can usually beat up Blood Angels for the reasons that martel stated.
Adeptus Mechanicus I honestly haven't seen much of so I can't comment on how good they are against orks, As for Inquisition and Harlequins? both are supplement codices for the Imperium and Eldar Respectively (you can tell me all you want they are an independent army but they aren't. They are meant to act as allies for those 2 factions)

Orks are not competitive against Necrons, not just because Decurion but Necrons in general. Trust me, I have had a mob of boyz get stuck in combat with a unit of Warriors for 3 turns and then lose to them.
When a SM player brings grav I am usually pretty happy because my T-shirts don't give a flying feth about Grav. So I am never worried about grav.
As For Tau? No it isn't just the stupid OP ridiculous Riptide/Stormsurge/GhostKeel it is about 2/3rds of the codex that kills orks. Missile Sides eat through my bikes and boyz like they aren't there. Even Firewarriors kill Boyz faster then they can close the gap. And then you have all the fething jump/jet pack infantry that can outgun me, are faster then me, have better armor then me, and better leadership. After all of that then you get to add in the Iconic Riptide that every single Tau player in existence owns, at least one of.



Anyway back on topic as far as what is wrong with the orks. From what I gather people seem to think that Orks are either to squishy or conversely that Orks are perfectly fine it is just the rest of the game that needs to be toned down so that Orks aren't getting tabled every other game.

Well, in the history of GW they have never done an edition wide toning down, they do nerf codex's into the ground, but usually only if they are Xenos or BA, but they never do it to more then 1-3 codex's a edition. So those of you who are hoping Eldar/Necrons/SM/Tau get bumped back down to normal levels? well don't hold your breath. SO with that in mind I think the problem then becomes how squishy orks are and simple ways to make them tougher and more able to get into close combat, because GW will never give orks good weapons to shoot (The KMK was a mistake Im sure of it)

Army Wide 5+ or 6+ FNP would help a bit, the 5+ would really help but I have a feeling to many would complain because they wouldn't be able to steam roll orks anymore.
Conversely changing orks armor saves to 6++ instead of 6+ would make them a bit more durable.
Lastly, redoing the Ramshackle and Mob rules to make them a buff instead of a nerf would probably really help out in terms of getting boyz into CC.

RAMSHACKLE: Against Penetrating hits: On a 3+ the vehicle loses 1 HP and 1 passenger inside gets liquefied, ignore the vehicle damage chart.
Against Glancing hits: On a 4+ the vehicle ignores the glance, as it only blew off a chunk of armor that was bolted to the frame.

Mob Rule: If the mob has 10+ Models the unit is fearless
If the mob has 10 or less modes it uses the highest leadership of a model in the unit but is allowed to re-roll all leadership tests. (Nobs become Ld8 because reasons)

 Purifier wrote:

Hunam0001 wrote:
even marines if they don't have grav

Why would anyone pick grav against orks?

Grav will now hurt orks badly as meganobz is the only way you can deal with IK outside the HQ slot now.

SemperMortis wrote:

Orks are not competitive against Necrons, not just because Decurion but Necrons in general. Trust me, I have had a mob of boyz get stuck in combat with a unit of Warriors for 3 turns and then lose to them.
When a SM player brings grav I am usually pretty happy because my T-shirts don't give a flying feth about Grav. So I am never worried about grav.
As For Tau? No it isn't just the stupid OP ridiculous Riptide/Stormsurge/GhostKeel it is about 2/3rds of the codex that kills orks. Missile Sides eat through my bikes and boyz like they aren't there. Even Firewarriors kill Boyz faster then they can close the gap. And then you have all the fething jump/jet pack infantry that can outgun me, are faster then me, have better armor then me, and better leadership. After all of that then you get to add in the Iconic Riptide that every single Tau player in existence owns, at least one of.

I've also played against non-Decurion Necrons a bunch, and after learning a few tricks in the first few games, I've never had much a of a problem with them.

Did you have a nob with a PK in that boys squad? Personally, I throw Meganobz at things like warriors, boys are used to drown Wraiths.

As for Tau, I have 2000 points of Tau, and not a single Riptide.
I don't wanna get too bogged down with how infuriating the 6th ed codex for them was, but I do agree that everything in it is terrible balanced, and just... the worst... not even from the point of view of other players, but IT'S BAD FOR TAU PLAYERS. There's upgrades for the Hammerhead that make literally no sense. Broadsides lost their identity with the changes to HRR, and HYMP. What should have been the most flexible/coolest unit in the book (Pathfinders) was mishandled into mono builds.

Anyhow, yeah, you're right about Tau.

Anyhow, back on topic. I guess playing Kult of Speed skews a lot of my views on this. I'm super afraid of Grav as an immobilised vehicle is basically useless.

I think the issue that a lot of Ork players have is that this codex is that you can't just run up the middle of the field with a ton of boyz. Which, in all fairness, is exactly what they're described as doing in the fluff (the same fluff mind you, where they constantly get defeated).

I mean, sure our dedicated assault units can't take on other dedicated assault units, but they do a great job of killing non assault units. Which compliments the way boys units are pretty good at tying down dedicated assault units.

I think that's the strength of the Ork codex right now. Bully units, and distracting chaff.

Nearly every ork player I've faced takes some dang special sauce specialty army that worked in 3/4/5 editions....

MSU is very on the up and up, and combine that with grav spam and librarian conclaves all over the damn place.....

Why aren't ork players flooding the board?

Even in competitive, you are slowing the game down and bringing more scoring units then any army can reasonable deal with in the current Meta.

Flood the board! It works great!

 sfshilo wrote:
Nearly every ork player I've faced takes some dang special sauce specialty army that worked in 3/4/5 editions....

MSU is very on the up and up, and combine that with grav spam and librarian conclaves all over the damn place.....

Why aren't ork players flooding the board?

Even in competitive, you are slowing the game down and bringing more scoring units then any army can reasonable deal with in the current Meta.

Flood the board! It works great!

I'm glad we disagree about this.

I've been having success with fast moving MSU. The fact that you've been doing great with board control (hopefully) means we're not a mono-build codex.

Hunam0001 wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:
Nearly every ork player I've faced takes some dang special sauce specialty army that worked in 3/4/5 editions....

MSU is very on the up and up, and combine that with grav spam and librarian conclaves all over the damn place.....

Why aren't ork players flooding the board?

Even in competitive, you are slowing the game down and bringing more scoring units then any army can reasonable deal with in the current Meta.

Flood the board! It works great!

I'm glad we disagree about this.

I've been having success with fast moving MSU. The fact that you've been doing great with board control (hopefully) means we're not a mono-build codex.

actually, as it stands right now, Orks are in fact a mono-build army. Your probably playing Zhadsnark's boyz, where you can use bikes as troops. That is literally the only Ork Army that placed in the top 100 at the LVO this year. Basically if you run anything besides that your screwed. Green tide used to be a thing for a bit, it was very gimmicky and easily defeated if your opponent wasn't stupid but teamed with a VSG and a painboy it was fairly resilient. But Orks can't have nice things so GW killed that formation entirely in the latest craptastic supplement they released for Orks. On top of that, if you play that army against any army that has access to a heavy flamer? Stand by, because there goes your Deathstar unit.

If I had to point out one that is wrong with orks, it's mob rule. It's a terrible rule that forces us to kill our own units en masse, even valuable ones like lootas or tankbustas, to pass any morale test.

Moreover, we are a melee centered army with no protection from fear whatsoever, and majority LD7. And fear is a pretty damned common special rule, it just doesn't affect anyone that much other than orks.

Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to charge a unit of khorne dogs or a riptide with a warboss and nobz and to be afraid of them?

If mob rule didn't suck, or wasn't as punishing as it is (I've lost more models to mob rule than to the opposing enemy in melee, a time or two), offered protection from fear, orks would function better.

That being said, lack of invluns and saves in general also hurt, bad.

Thoughts on easy fixes:

All orks get 6+ FNP base. painboyz add +2 to FNP rolls.

Painboyz work exactly like (little) meks do now. Having to waste a HQ slot on a model that provides FNP and basically nothing else is annoying.

Mob rule counts wounds, not models. This makes Mob rule actually useful for things like nobz, deffkoptas, etc.

Substitute # of remaining wounds for your LD value. If over 10, fearless.

Or, keep mob rule the way it is now, but count wounds instead of models. Breakin' eads causes D3 wounds at the characters base strength, squabble causes D6 at the majority base strength (generally, 3). How do S3 boyz hit each other for S4? Mob rule also counts for fear tests.

If more than one group of your orks is involved in a close combat, you count all wounds involved in the close combat. That way, smaller trukk boy squads can bolster each other's mob rule results.

If they fixed mob rule and actually made orks tough and resistant to fear (like in the fluff), they could be fixed pretty damn quick.

SemperMortis wrote:

Hunam0001 wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:
Nearly every ork player I've faced takes some dang special sauce specialty army that worked in 3/4/5 editions....

MSU is very on the up and up, and combine that with grav spam and librarian conclaves all over the damn place.....

Why aren't ork players flooding the board?

Even in competitive, you are slowing the game down and bringing more scoring units then any army can reasonable deal with in the current Meta.

Flood the board! It works great!

I'm glad we disagree about this.

I've been having success with fast moving MSU. The fact that you've been doing great with board control (hopefully) means we're not a mono-build codex.

actually, as it stands right now, Orks are in fact a mono-build army. Your probably playing Zhadsnark's boyz, where you can use bikes as troops. That is literally the only Ork Army that placed in the top 100 at the LVO this year. Basically if you run anything besides that your screwed. Green tide used to be a thing for a bit, it was very gimmicky and easily defeated if your opponent wasn't stupid but teamed with a VSG and a painboy it was fairly resilient. But Orks can't have nice things so GW killed that formation entirely in the latest craptastic supplement they released for Orks. On top of that, if you play that army against any army that has access to a heavy flamer? Stand by, because there goes your Deathstar unit.

No Zhad. I do have a unit with bikes with a Warboss and a Big Mek with KFF (specifically because of baleflamers). After that, it's Trukk boys and Manz Missiles mostly.

Also of note, I've been running my Warboss with Headwoppa's Kill Choppa, and an attack squig, and go fishing for 6s to wound. Catches quite a few opponents off guard.

Anyhow, back on topic, I think the big thing that Orks are missing most games is LOS blocking terrain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
If I had to point out one that is wrong with orks, it's mob rule. It's a terrible rule that forces us to kill our own units en masse, even valuable ones like lootas or tankbustas, to pass any morale test.

Moreover, we are a melee centered army with no protection from fear whatsoever, and majority LD7. And fear is a pretty damned common special rule, it just doesn't affect anyone that much other than orks.

Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to charge a unit of khorne dogs or a riptide with a warboss and nobz and to be afraid of them?

If mob rule didn't suck, or wasn't as punishing as it is (I've lost more models to mob rule than to the opposing enemy in melee, a time or two), offered protection from fear, orks would function better.

That being said, lack of invluns and saves in general also hurt, bad.

Thoughts on easy fixes:

All orks get 6+ FNP base. painboyz add +2 to FNP rolls.

Painboyz work exactly like (little) meks do now. Having to waste a HQ slot on a model that provides FNP and basically nothing else is annoying.

Mob rule counts wounds, not models. This makes Mob rule actually useful for things like nobz, deffkoptas, etc.

Substitute # of remaining wounds for your LD value. If over 10, fearless.

Or, keep mob rule the way it is now, but count wounds instead of models. Breakin' eads causes D3 wounds at the characters base strength, squabble causes D6 at the majority base strength (generally, 3). How do S3 boyz hit each other for S4? Mob rule also counts for fear tests.

If more than one group of your orks is involved in a close combat, you count all wounds involved in the close combat. That way, smaller trukk boy squads can bolster each other's mob rule results.

If they fixed mob rule and actually made orks tough and resistant to fear (like in the fluff), they could be fixed pretty damn quick.

Yeah, if mob rule could be taken against fear test that'd be great.

The worst was charging a unit of Manz into a Crimson Slaughter Land raider... and being forced to hit on 4s.

As for mob rule itself, I don't find it that damaging, but I tend to run boys in 'Eavy armor.

Anyhow, back on topic, I think the big thing that Orks are missing most games is LOS blocking terrain.

This more then anything else bugs me the most. This is the most useless comment that is capable of being made in regards to what Orks lack or need.

Every army in the game uses Terrain and LoS blocking terrain, even shooty armies like Tau use LoS blocking terrain. Stating Orks need LoS blocking terrain is just silly.

Sorry I went off on a rant. Anyway, in your meta this might be the case, but in the competitive gaming environment Orks have 1 build that can work, thats Zhad and his biker boyz. everything else failed at LVO ant hose are arguably some of the best players in the game.

SemperMortis wrote:

Anyhow, back on topic, I think the big thing that Orks are missing most games is LOS blocking terrain.

This more then anything else bugs me the most. This is the most useless comment that is capable of being made in regards to what Orks lack or need.

Every army in the game uses Terrain and LoS blocking terrain, even shooty armies like Tau use LoS blocking terrain. Stating Orks need LoS blocking terrain is just silly.

Sorry I went off on a rant. Anyway, in your meta this might be the case, but in the competitive gaming environment Orks have 1 build that can work, thats Zhad and his biker boyz. everything else failed at LVO ant hose are arguably some of the best players in the game.

True, but I find a lot of people who complain about Orks tend to be playing on planet bowling ball, and running foot slogging hordes directly at the foe.

Anyhow, in my meta, Kult of Speed Orks are doing pretty well (even without Zhad). It'd be nice to see some more walker armies, but that seems to be an issue with walkers in general more than anything else.

What do you feel they lack in your meta?

Doesn't help that the allies matrix sucks for orks.
Tankbustas were one of the MVP units but they just got nerfed in the faq.
best units are in the heavy slot but maxing on lootas and mek gunz only gets you so far.

Why does an army that supposed loves to fight spend so much time running away from fights?

Mob rule is crap. bring back the old mob rule. it worked and was fluffy as hell!

Biggest problem - leadership ans mob rule. If the boyz were fearless orks would do much better. And no invuln is just stupid why do orks get their only 5++ only agaibst shooting?

I would say because some units (Stormboyz, Kommandos, Flashgitz) only have a T-Shirt save (6+) which makes them undesirable to use

And also the lack of some stuff that is in the fluff (Tellyporta, i would make it a 30 point upgrade to a Big Mek that grants him and his unit Deep Strike, but has a -1 to Deep Strike Mishap (2 becomes a 1))

However the FW support for orks is quite good, some examples are Grot Tanks, Dread Mob List, Kustom Stompa, Mega/Meka Dreads and Buzzgob (300 Point Stompa!!)

Plus the Lack of giving your Custom HQs a Rokkit pack (Stormboy) or Sneekey Gear (Kommando)

A few things could really fix Orks without throwing the baby out with the bath water:

1) bring back the old mob rules.
2) bring back the save modifier for choppas, maybe just a simple -1 to armour save and AV.
3) make gorka/morkanaught a SH Walker.
4) give all Orks (not grots) FNP 6+, allow increases with cybork and painboys.
5) give trukks jink.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
5) give trukks jink.

I would actually say give it the thing Grot Tanks have, a 5+ Invun against anything that doesnt have the Ordnance


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However orks DID get a buff in the new FAQ, Ramshackle turns D hits into 1 Hullpoint

The lack of things above bs2. Although theres killa kans, grots, and plane gunners. Theres a lack in leadership in them.

 Commissar Terrence wrote:
The lack of things above bs2. Although theres killa kans, grots, and plane gunners. Theres a lack in leadership in them.

Nah, Orks have been BS 2 since 3rd, and it fits. They are meant to be an assault army, not a shooty army.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Commissar Terrence wrote:
The lack of things above bs2. Although theres killa kans, grots, and plane gunners. Theres a lack in leadership in them.

Nah, Orks have been BS 2 since 3rd, and it fits. They are meant to be an assault army, not a shooty army.

However i believe that Ork Vehicles should be able to buy "Grot Gunnerz" making shooting weapons BS3

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Commissar Terrence wrote:
The lack of things above bs2. Although theres killa kans, grots, and plane gunners. Theres a lack in leadership in them.

Nah, Orks have been BS 2 since 3rd, and it fits. They are meant to be an assault army, not a shooty army.

Except orks aren't an assault army. They are a bully army. Our best assault units can't stand up to average assault units from other factions. Realistically the best unit we have for assault is a mob of boyz. BS2 fits I get that, but why give Orks stuff like the 1 shot rokkit? 2/3rd chance to waste those 5pts.

However orks DID get a buff in the new FAQ, Ramshackle turns D hits into 1 Hullpoint

How is that a buff? nobody was wasting Strength D weapons on trukkz. and realistically the only army that can put out D weapons to the point where they might waste that shot is Eldar, and they have Scat Bikes, Fire Dragons, Reapers, and a host of other things that auto-deletes trukkz without having to waste those D shots.

And also the lack of some stuff that is in the fluff (Tellyporta, i would make it a 30 point upgrade to a Big Mek that grants him and his unit Deep Strike, but has a -1 to Deep Strike Mishap (2 becomes a 1))

This is a problem I have with a lot of peoples suggestions for orks. GW has this habit of fething orks over with random table rolls and giving them equipment that might be useful but sucks because they add negatives to it, and because of that a lot of people feel that when they make suggestions on buffs for the ork army they have to likewise add in a HUGE negative to whatever they are suggesting, otherwise its not Orky enough apparently. When your fething units Deep strike they have a 1 in 6 chance of something horrible happening. That is already terrible and I usually tell my opponent not to even roll on that table because it makes the game no fun after his unit is gone. So because Orks aren't competitive lets double that chance to 1/3 chance. AND make it a 30pt upgrade.

Do SM and other factions have to pay 30pts for a teleport ability? pretty sure they don't.

Orks are already one of the bottom tier armies, stop giving us "Buffs" That are really nerfs in disguise.

What is Wrong with Orks?

Games workshop thinks releases like THESE are acceptable. Just like the gork/morkanaut their crap game stats just cost them sales, and im sure not just from me.

SemperMortis wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Commissar Terrence wrote:
The lack of things above bs2. Although theres killa kans, grots, and plane gunners. Theres a lack in leadership in them.

Nah, Orks have been BS 2 since 3rd, and it fits. They are meant to be an assault army, not a shooty army.

Except orks aren't an assault army. They are a bully army. Our best assault units can't stand up to average assault units from other factions. Realistically the best unit we have for assault is a mob of boyz. BS2 fits I get that, but why give Orks stuff like the 1 shot rokkit? 2/3rd chance to waste those 5pts.

However orks DID get a buff in the new FAQ, Ramshackle turns D hits into 1 Hullpoint

How is that a buff? nobody was wasting Strength D weapons on trukkz. and realistically the only army that can put out D weapons to the point where they might waste that shot is Eldar, and they have Scat Bikes, Fire Dragons, Reapers, and a host of other things that auto-deletes trukkz without having to waste those D shots.

And also the lack of some stuff that is in the fluff (Tellyporta, i would make it a 30 point upgrade to a Big Mek that grants him and his unit Deep Strike, but has a -1 to Deep Strike Mishap (2 becomes a 1))

This is a problem I have with a lot of peoples suggestions for orks. GW has this habit of fething orks over with random table rolls and giving them equipment that might be useful but sucks because they add negatives to it, and because of that a lot of people feel that when they make suggestions on buffs for the ork army they have to likewise add in a HUGE negative to whatever they are suggesting, otherwise its not Orky enough apparently. When your fething units Deep strike they have a 1 in 6 chance of something horrible happening. That is already terrible and I usually tell my opponent not to even roll on that table because it makes the game no fun after his unit is gone. So because Orks aren't competitive lets double that chance to 1/3 chance. AND make it a 30pt upgrade.

Do SM and other factions have to pay 30pts for a teleport ability? pretty sure they don't.

Orks are already one of the bottom tier armies, stop giving us "Buffs" That are really nerfs in disguise.

I was gonna add "if a WAAAGH is called on the turn a unit Telleports, they may charge after deep striking"

I was gonna add "if a WAAAGH is called on the turn a unit Telleports, they may charge after deep striking"

Which is something most orks should already have the ability to do. It would make taking a couple of weirdboyz and hoping for the teleport power more likely.

The problem I have with your suggestion is that the only useful units orks have right now are basically Boyz and Tankbustas/Meganobz. If you throw in that Big Mek with that expensive teleport device your probably going to suffer a mishap, IE Landing on impassable terrain or off the board a bit. Imagine making a giant 30 boy blob into a big circle. Your going to take up a lot of the board with that giant circle. So when you do mishap, our unit is Dead 1/3rd of the time, useless 1/3rd of the time and delayed 1/3rd of the time.



I would love for orks to have more "Assault from" outflanking, scouting, infiltrating, deep strike and such but we currently don't have any units that do that. Just imagine how much more often you would see over priced Kommando units if they could assault from outflank, or from scout. Or that ridiculous formation with the Stormboyz that lets you deepstrike.

 sfshilo wrote:
Nearly every ork player I've faced takes some dang special sauce specialty army that worked in 3/4/5 editions....

MSU is very on the up and up, and combine that with grav spam and librarian conclaves all over the damn place.....

Why aren't ork players flooding the board?

Even in competitive, you are slowing the game down and bringing more scoring units then any army can reasonable deal with in the current Meta.

Flood the board! It works great!

215 points for 29 boyz with a boss nob, 335 if they have heavy armor for the 4+

I have run them either way, most armies just kill them by the droves and at least in my meta everybody brings pie plates.

I have run 180 boyz (really 174 with 6 pk nobz) many times and they usually just take a long time to move and get removed in buckets as your opponent zips around in vehicles out of range picking off the close models so you never get an assault (losses off the back in 5th made this a non issue, if you don't bunch to avoid this templates kill you, if you spread out you never get in the assault so... yea

really changing their save to a 5 or 6+ fnp and no armor save would help though. the issue is they almost never even get to try that 6 tshirt save except in cc. eavy armor boyz then become worth it more 4+ then 5 or 6 fnp

Here are some fluffy and simple fixes that would make Orks viable without slowing the game down or increasing model count.

1) Mob Rule: If you fail a leadership kill D3 boyz than treat as having passed. That would work on Fear and regroup tests as well.
2) Ramshackle. Downgrade Pens to glances on a 2+
3) Speed: Units with Ere We Go can run and charge every turn (not just the WAAAGH)
4) Survivability: 20+ Orks in a unit = T6 vs shooting and explosions. 10-19 Orks in a unit = T5 vs shooting .
5) Waaagh!: On the turn Orks declare their Waaagh they gain fearless, fleet, and rending.
6) Gorkanaught and Morkanaut = Super Heavy Vehicles.
7) Walkers gain Ere We Go.
8) Bosspole: Can send a boy in your place to meet a challenge.

I think that the ork flyer is far from bad, honestly. It's fast, decent ranged AP2 shooting for a price that is consistent with the other (ork) flyers.

Even has an included 5++ save from one hit per turn, and a half price upgrade for a KFF.

Hell, the blitza bommer is more and has to physically fly over a target to get an AP2 blast without jinking, and only gets to do that twice. Large blast, admittedly.

It's not amazing, but hell, a fast tellyport blasta isn't awful.

And with most flying vehicles losing skyfire, means fewer things can hit it.

I'm not going to say it's amazing, but A) welcome to orks, and B) welcome to ork flyers.

Any rate, it's a fun model, and I intend to enjoy it.

SemperMortis wrote:
This is a problem I have with a lot of peoples suggestions for orks. GW has this habit of fething orks over with random table rolls and giving them equipment that might be useful but sucks because they add negatives to it, and because of that a lot of people feel that when they make suggestions on buffs for the ork army they have to likewise add in a HUGE negative to whatever they are suggesting, otherwise its not Orky enough apparently.

absolutly this. like many ork players i found myself discussing ork buffs with friends... and every frikking time i catch myself undermining great ideas with pointless ways to kill of my own army...
but somehow it IS orky and IF the pay off is good enough it would be fine.

anyway... i think there are two main problem with the current ork dex.

1) limited CAD and no Decurion style formations
first off the ghazkull formation is ridiculous and useless in normal sized games. 900+ points for a core choice is insane.
but what really hinders the current ork dex is the lack of options to min manx our lists. we can generally take only one CAD and this limits what options we can take. the best defence against super units like centurions or other op crap is offensive MSU play. i would glady take 5 man tankbusta squads in a trukk for measly 100points per mob but i cant. i would love to take multiple biker mobs to threaten high value targets across the table but i cant. because i also NEED outflanking skorcha buggys, dakkajets and koptaz. same goes for the heavily crowded support section. taking many small mobs would also mitigate the leadership problems orks have... you just shot 5 lootaz and they ran of the board? well i dont care, because i ljust lost about 65 points and have 5 more loota mobs waiting...
also this would open up possibilitys of themed ork armys like goffs or speed freaks which would get minor bonuses depending on their playstyle (like good old trukkboyz which would only get hurt by their exploding trukk on 6+)
also let every aproppiate mob take meks or painboyz (and give painboyz a freaking boy profile or call him painboss for gork/mork's sake) that would clear up the much crowded HQ slot a bit. also while we're at it... make 3 HQ slots the norm or give the horde cad objective secured.


2) morale and durability in general
this is i think we all agree the big one. ld 7 and no save is a gamebreaker. first off the save.
generally i like the idea of orks having no invul save, its kinda fluffy and lets us stand out compared to other armies. but the downside has to be mitigated somehow. in this sense just give every ork an armywide 6+ FNP, the 6+ tshirt save can stay. why? because it doesnt matter for shooting anyway... and where does it matter?`in CC. it would buff the general survivalbility of orks and give em a bit more punch in CC, while not making em op in any sense. painboys and cyborks should buff this save by 1. so that some hq characters would get a 4+ fnp IF an painboy is around and he brought a cybork with him. doesnt sound too op to me. next would be morale. my favorite fix would be orks always can substitue their number of orks (or better wounds) for their LD value up to a maximum of 10. no substractions, no modifiers whatsoever. you got 8 orks left after losing a CC? you need to roll 8 or less. this is simple fast and effective. on a whaagh everyone is fearless for one turn.
an alternative would be a streamlined and improved version of the mob rule. roll a D3 if its a 1 the test is failed (unless in CC), 2 is passed but you take d3 wounds (with saves allowed AND ork player chooses casulites, no endless and pointless efforts to find a d20 and roll it 5 times to determine which git bites the dust), 3 is passed no malicious things happen. further wounds cause no further testing. done. its easy, fast and effective.


...of course there is also the problem of slightly overprized units. yes there are some really ridiculous pointed units like naughts, killa kans and stompas. but for the most part a small point reduction would do the trick.
like make nobs tax-free and give em a bosspole as gear, scimp off 5 points for trukks or give all ork vehicles rams for free (we all take em anyway) stuff like that should do the trick.

EDIT:

oh and for feth sake... make the red paint job give you +1 inch to your regular movement again. -.-

The ork codex just sucks almost every unit got worse. Tank hunters are one of the few good choices

Overcosted of most units. Most of units should cost the half or 1/3 less than actual. Is funny how overcosted is but GW sell us the army as an horde full of cheap stuff....and usually you can see near the same amoun of marines than orks on games.

Lack of supervivence (think that if GW doesnt raise general armor on the army, every single ork should have a 5+ feel no pain)

All vehicles are stupidy weak and easy to blow up.

Special mention to our dreads/kans...pfff

No MC, something funny because the kind of army...even more if you realiced even Imperium have MC

No psiquic powers (the ones of the books are so terrible i dont think on them) and no acces to any powers from the book but daemonology.

Weaponry
- no melta
- no lass canon (the smasha gun is a joke)
- no cheap or decent option to decent large blast
- no weapons with special cool effects (no gravs, no strange Admecg weapons, no tessla or gauss, no shurikens....)
- no classic plasma. And plasma canons are just as heavy support or stupid bad units like morkanaut
- Huge lack of anti large vehicles weapons. A land raider becomes near inmmune to our range weapons.

Actually, even if not good shooting, ork are not so good at melee: S3, no armor, no invulnerable saves on IC, poor iniciative (with not resistente to could answer the attack), por amount of weapons choices for characters....

No personalization on the units, with none or near none weapon choices

Again, overcosted army xD



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Ah, and the new flyer is gak. The morkanaunt of the skies xD


And after saw the rules and weapns of the new marine ship...I am sure GW hates orks' players, because it owned the ork plane in every single aspect...and is cheaper than the ork....cool

Spot on except ork plasma is one point stronger then classic plasma capable of glancing AV14 and IDs T4. But there's ork bs2 to deal with.

hahaha, not only the bs2, you only can buy that plasma canons on very few units, being the mek gun the only decent xD