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Question - I believe in the BRBFAQ, it stated that models that can fire two weapons 'in the shooting phase' are allowed to shoot two weapons in overwatch. Is that contradicted anywhere in this FAQ for multi-trackers? I don't think it was.
Also, it says that MCs firing ordnance weapons cannot fire anything further. That is a completely new rule to me - I know that vehicles have limitations when firing ordnance, but I never knew MCs did.
Has the MC limitation always been the case, or is that new?
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
Gamgee wrote: The only one the ITC has gotten right is the Hunter Contingent. Otherwise they were so wrong in their rulings. Especially the Firesteam Wing!
No they weren't you still can't choose to leave and enter reseEve's the same turn. However you can respawn lost units.
The faq is also still not clear on immobilised results. The faq only says of all the units including be immobilised unit is within 6in of the board edge they can respawn at full strength. However this doesn't say anything about a piranha that's immobilised in the center of the board and abandoned.
Does this unit that is not within 6in of the board edge just magically disappear?
Is this unit just ignored and left on the board and a new piranha come on the board giving you 5 piranhas on the board?
Nothing in the faq clarified this!
They ruled that the Firestream Wing could not enter the table and go back into the reserves on the same turn and it clearly states here they can. That is the main ruling I'm refering to. The player who brought it even used it to summon drones, drop them off ect. As well as block units off with the drones or even the Firestream Wing.
No it doesn't saying you can go into reserves each turn is NOT the same as saying you can enter and leave reserves on the same turn.
You are making up new rules.
Kap'n Krump wrote: Also, kind of interesting that crisis suits have the choice of taking one twin-linked weapon or two non twin linked weapons for the same points cost.
They're not the same points cost. For example a twin-linked Burst Cannon cost 15 points, while two Burst Cannons would cost 20 points.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Kap'n Krump wrote: Question - I believe in the BRBFAQ, it stated that models that can fire two weapons 'in the shooting phase' are allowed to shoot two weapons in overwatch. Is that contradicted anywhere in this FAQ for multi-trackers? I don't think it was.
Also, it says that MCs firing ordnance weapons cannot fire anything further. That is a completely new rule to me - I know that vehicles have limitations when firing ordnance, but I never knew MCs did.
Has the MC limitation always been the case, or is that new?
It's clearly stated in the rules. The limitation is for all "non-vehicle models". They can't charge either. Vehicles on the other hand can shoot other weapons but only as snap shots.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/13 17:50:34
So here's a question: Monstrous Creatures can't fire an Ordinance weapon and then shoot any other weapons. Gargantuan Creatures shoot as Monstrous Creatures, but can fire all of their weapons at different targets. So if a Surge shoots its Pulse Driver Cannon, can it shoot the rest of its guns?
jifel wrote: So here's a question: Monstrous Creatures can't fire an Ordinance weapon and then shoot any other weapons. Gargantuan Creatures shoot as Monstrous Creatures, but can fire all of their weapons at different targets. So if a Surge shoots its Pulse Driver Cannon, can it shoot the rest of its guns?
The Gargantuan rules specifically state that firing Ordnance weapons has no effect on them.
No it doesn't saying you can go into reserves each turn is NOT the same as saying you can enter and leave reserves on the same turn.
You are making up new rules.
Unfortunately it currently states "every", not "each". So as written I would read that as saying that they can come and go without having to spend the turn on the board. I don't like it, but I do think it's clear that they can leave the same turn they come in.
No it doesn't saying you can go into reserves each turn is NOT the same as saying you can enter and leave reserves on the same turn.
You are making up new rules.
Unfortunately it currently states "every", not "each". So as written I would read that as saying that they can come and go without having to spend the turn on the board. I don't like it, but I do think it's clear that they can leave the same turn they come in.
Each or every still doesn't mean they can choose to go in and out of reserves the same turn. That's not what that sentence says. It only states they can go into reserves every turn. There are other abilities in game that forces a unit into ongoing reserves.
jifel wrote: So here's a question: Monstrous Creatures can't fire an Ordinance weapon and then shoot any other weapons. Gargantuan Creatures shoot as Monstrous Creatures, but can fire all of their weapons at different targets. So if a Surge shoots its Pulse Driver Cannon, can it shoot the rest of its guns?
The Gargantuan rules specifically state that firing Ordnance weapons has no effect on them.
No it doesn't saying you can go into reserves each turn is NOT the same as saying you can enter and leave reserves on the same turn.
You are making up new rules.
Unfortunately it currently states "every", not "each". So as written I would read that as saying that they can come and go without having to spend the turn on the board. I don't like it, but I do think it's clear that they can leave the same turn they come in.
Each or every still doesn't mean they can choose to go in and out of reserves the same turn. That's not what that sentence says. It only states they can go into reserves every turn. There are other abilities in game that forces a unit into ongoing reserves.
I would say that "every" covers "the same turn". The problem is that they chose a bad question as the basis of that clarification. The question needed to be "can the formation enter reserves the same turn that it arrived from reserves" or something along those lines.
No it doesn't saying you can go into reserves each turn is NOT the same as saying you can enter and leave reserves on the same turn.
You are making up new rules.
Unfortunately it currently states "every", not "each". So as written I would read that as saying that they can come and go without having to spend the turn on the board. I don't like it, but I do think it's clear that they can leave the same turn they come in.
Each or every still doesn't mean they can choose to go in and out of reserves the same turn. That's not what that sentence says. It only states they can go into reserves every turn. There are other abilities in game that forces a unit into ongoing reserves.
I would say that "every" covers "the same turn". The problem is that they chose a bad question as the basis of that clarification. The question needed to be "can the formation enter reserves the same turn that it arrived from reserves" or something along those lines.
I would say no simply because we already have a faq that says you can't do that and nothing in this faq changes that even if people try to twist the interpretation to imply that.
gungo wrote: I would say no simply because we already have a faq that says you can't do that and nothing in this faq changes that even if people try to twist the interpretation to imply that.
Codex trumps BRB, so the rulings are not actually conflicting.
Edit: At the very least this does nothing to settle the debate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/13 18:18:21
gungo wrote: I would say no simply because we already have a faq that says you can't do that and nothing in this faq changes that even if people try to twist the interpretation to imply that.
Codex trumps BRB, so the rulings are not actually conflicting.
Good thing these are both faqs and not codex or brb entries
I love that they made immobilized vehicles able to drive off the board. And then come back repaired! Feth this gak.
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Glad to see some of the nonsense ITC rulings were confirmed as incorrect interpretations and that the rules were intended to work as most Tau players interpreted them.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Lord Blackscale wrote: I love that they made immobilized vehicles able to drive off the board. And then come back repaired! Feth this gak.
Again this faq is horribly written.
It states a unit within 6in of the table edge can go into reserves and come back at full strength even if one of them is immobilised however
It states nothing about an immobilised piranha that is not within 6in of the board edge and abandoned.
Do we just assume it magically disappears and the unit comes back at full strength Even though it's no longer part of the unit?
Or do we just assume it's a new unit and now the tau player gets a free piranha on the board going from 4 to 5 piranhas?
Heck if that's the case feel free to go over some dangerous terrain so you can spawn multiple free piranhas!!!
The point is the faq doesn't clarify these questions!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kriswall wrote: Glad to see some of the nonsense ITC rulings were confirmed as incorrect interpretations and that the rules were intended to work as most Tau players interpreted them.
The only ITC ruling changed was rearm and refuel spawns the unit back at full strength if the entire remaining unit is within 6in of the board edge.
Stormsurge ruling is the same
Coordinated fire is the same
Halo measures is the same
Drone factory is still the same (unless GW states this formation overrides the brbfaq)
In other words tau players were mostly wrong
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/07/13 19:10:02
Lord Blackscale wrote: I love that they made immobilized vehicles able to drive off the board. And then come back repaired! Feth this gak.
Again this faq is horribly written.
It states a unit within 6in of the table edge can go into reserves and come back at full strength even if one of them is immobilised however
It states nothing about an immobilised piranha that is not within 6in of the board edge and abandoned.
Do we just assume it magically disappears and the unit comes back at full strength Even though it's no longer part of the unit?
Or do we just assume it's a new unit and now the tau player gets a free piranha on the board going from 4 to 5 piranhas?
Heck if that's the case feel free to go over some dangerous terrain so you can spawn multiple free piranhas!!!
The point is the faq doesn't clarify these questions!
The question is definitely bad. It's ambiguous. It references "the unit", but we don't know if that means the original unit before being split apart by an immobilization or the resulting 3 Piranha unit after being split. I'm inclined to say the latter as the former no longer exists when we're moving off the board. That would mean that yes, you could go from 4 to 5-7 Piranhas (depending on how many were immobilized). Probably needs a clarification.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Desubot wrote: Awesome you can now totally kneecap a storm surge with a tank shock and just straight kill it if its anchored (edit)
Wait, this is after the BRBFAQ specifically mentions that tank shocking is not intended as a means to remove models? That's kinda weird.
I think we should tell them this doesn't make sense and get it clarified to take 1d3 wounds instead, be moved back, and put out of anchors mode.
Isn't it that "If a unit can't move away from a tank shock it is destroyed"
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Kap'n Krump wrote: Question - I believe in the BRBFAQ, it stated that models that can fire two weapons 'in the shooting phase' are allowed to shoot two weapons in overwatch. Is that contradicted anywhere in this FAQ for multi-trackers? I don't think it was.
Also, it says that MCs firing ordnance weapons cannot fire anything further. That is a completely new rule to me - I know that vehicles have limitations when firing ordnance, but I never knew MCs did.
Has the MC limitation always been the case, or is that new?
It's clearly stated in the rules. The limitation is for all "non-vehicle models". They can't charge either. Vehicles on the other hand can shoot other weapons but only as snap shots.
MCs (and vehicles, for that matter) can definitely charge after firing ordnance weapons, they both have relentless. I suppose that ordnance does disallow further shooting from a non-vehicle model, but I always thought that relentless canceled that part out too. I guess not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/13 21:40:21
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
So the Errata takes effect right away but the FAQs are first draft? First time I see the Errata first and didn't see a first draft on it.
I never paid attention i fat either Errata were first drafts or not.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
Gamgee wrote: The only one the ITC has gotten right is the Hunter Contingent. Otherwise they were so wrong in their rulings. Especially the Firesteam Wing!
No they weren't you still can't choose to leave and enter reseEve's the same turn. However you can respawn lost units.
The faq is also still not clear on immobilised results. The faq only says of all the units including be immobilised unit is within 6in of the board edge they can respawn at full strength. However this doesn't say anything about a piranha that's immobilised in the center of the board and abandoned.
Does this unit that is not within 6in of the board edge just magically disappear?
Is this unit just ignored and left on the board and a new piranha come on the board giving you 5 piranhas on the board?
Nothing in the faq clarified this!
They ruled that the Firestream Wing could not enter the table and go back into the reserves on the same turn and it clearly states here they can. That is the main ruling I'm refering to. The player who brought it even used it to summon drones, drop them off ect. As well as block units off with the drones or even the Firestream Wing.
No it doesn't saying you can go into reserves each turn is NOT the same as saying you can enter and leave reserves on the same turn.
You are making up new rules.
It's still a turn the first turn or any turn it enters. I enter from reserves drop drones and then leave that turn. Nothing explicitly prevents it, but it's been a long time since I've played a game so I could be rusty. In the FAQ page 2 it specifically says may enter reserves on every turn. EVERY. As in all inclusive. Opposite of nothing. You won't find rules for markerlights in the BRB and yet we still use those rules as in our codex.
Of course it trumps the base rules. Or else formations would be useless.
Uh your Skyhammer isn't in the BRB and none of its rules are. Oh geez guess you can't use it then base rule book doesn't say it exists or provides those rules.
In this case it says it can return to reserves on ANY turn. It does not say you can't do that on the first.
Using your logic anything not in the BRB would be useless and non-existent. Rendering codices useless.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/13 22:57:40
Gamgee wrote: The only one the ITC has gotten right is the Hunter Contingent. Otherwise they were so wrong in their rulings. Especially the Firesteam Wing!
No they weren't you still can't choose to leave and enter reseEve's the same turn. However you can respawn lost units.
The faq is also still not clear on immobilised results. The faq only says of all the units including be immobilised unit is within 6in of the board edge they can respawn at full strength. However this doesn't say anything about a piranha that's immobilised in the center of the board and abandoned.
Does this unit that is not within 6in of the board edge just magically disappear?
Is this unit just ignored and left on the board and a new piranha come on the board giving you 5 piranhas on the board?
Nothing in the faq clarified this!
They ruled that the Firestream Wing could not enter the table and go back into the reserves on the same turn and it clearly states here they can. That is the main ruling I'm refering to. The player who brought it even used it to summon drones, drop them off ect. As well as block units off with the drones or even the Firestream Wing.
No it doesn't saying you can go into reserves each turn is NOT the same as saying you can enter and leave reserves on the same turn.
You are making up new rules.
It's still a turn the first turn or any turn it enters. I enter from reserves drop drones and then leave that turn. Nothing explicitly prevents it, but it's been a long time since I've played a game so I could be rusty. In the FAQ page 2 it specifically says may enter reserves on every turn. EVERY. As in all inclusive. Opposite of nothing. You won't find rules for markerlights in the BRB and yet we still use those rules as in our codex.
Of course it trumps the base rules. Or else formations would be useless.
Uh your Skyhammer isn't in the BRB and none of its rules are. Oh geez guess you can't use it then base rule book doesn't say it exists or provides those rules.
In this case it says it can return to reserves on ANY turn. It does not say you can't do that on the first.
Using your logic anything not in the BRB would be useless and non-existent. Rendering codices useless.
The feth are you on about? Formations that override the BRB have specific rules that allow them to do so. They say things like "these units can charge even though they arrived from Deep Strike Reserve" and things like that.
Does the Firestream Wing have a rule that says "these units may leave the board on the same turn they arrived"? No? Then it doesn't override the rule. It's not hard if you think for 2 seconds.
Except it does now! It's been FAQ'ed to say EVERY turn. EVERY! Read it! Do I have to literally type it out verbatim?
It's modifying the formation rule that allows them to leave the turn they enter and still lets them do it the same turn.
"Q: Does the Rearm and Refuel special rule for the Piranha Firestream Formation from War Zone Damocles: Mont'ka allow the unit to into Ongoing Reserves every turn (As long as it is near the table edge as specified in the rules)?
A: Yes"
It quite clearly asks if it allows it every turn and it says yes. Crystal clear no room for interpretation. And it very clearly is clarifying the rule that allows this formation to work. Now normally your right a unit can't enter and exit in the same turn, but this formation allows it to do that. Now your wrong in your interpretation so badly it isn't funny. Your not going to disprove me wrong. At best if enough people feel it's a problem they can get GW to take a look at changing it if they feel its too overpowered. I personally don't think it's an issue with all the crazy summoning shenanigans other armies have.
Source if someone hasn't somehow seen it.
Spoiler:
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/07/13 23:37:31
2016/07/13 23:42:23
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 FAQ Draft p44 Eldar all types
Odds are Tyranids/Orks/Daemons/CSM's will be the final ones to get a release, since we're the NPC armies.
I'm not sure what you mean by NPC armies.
It refers to the tendency of game companies to turn the coolest armies (skaven, orcs, chaos, etc) into non playable hordes in video/tabletop games.
Think of Vermintide, Space Marine, Armageddon, etc.
He's saying Tyranids/Orks/Daemons/CSM are basically relegated to being like the skaven hordes in this game, meant for the good guys to slaughter by the dozens:
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
Gamgee wrote: Except it does now! It's been FAQ'ed to say EVERY turn. EVERY! Read it! Do I have to literally type it out verbatim?
It's modifying the formation rule that allows them to leave the turn they enter and still lets them do it the same turn.
"Q: Does the Rearm and Refuel special rule for the Piranha Firestream Formation from War Zone Damocles: Mont'ka allow the unit to into Ongoing Reserves every turn (As long as it is near the table edge as specified in the rules)?
A: Yes"
It quite clearly asks if it allows it every turn and it says yes. Crystal clear no room for interpretation. And it very clearly is clarifying the rule that allows this formation to work. Now normally your right a unit can't enter and exit in the same turn, but this formation allows it to do that. Now your wrong in your interpretation so badly it isn't funny. Your not going to disprove me wrong. At best if enough people feel it's a problem they can get GW to take a look at changing it if they feel its too overpowered. I personally don't think it's an issue with all the crazy summoning shenanigans other armies have.
Source if someone hasn't somehow seen it.
Spoiler:
You do realize there are other abilities in game that can put a unit into ongoing reserves and thus your piranhas can enter reserves every turn!!
However what this faq and formation does NOT allow is any verbiage that states you can ignore the brb or the recent brbfaq that states you can't enter and leave reserves the same turn.
Saying the piranhas unit can enter reserves every turn is a completely true statement
However that is no where near the same as saying the piranha unit can enter the leave reserves the same turn.
You are reaching here especially when the brbfaq is clear that this is NOT allowed.
And no where in this faq does it override the brbfaq even the word EVERY doesn't mean it overrides anything because the ability to enter reserves every turn is not restricted by the fact you CANT bypass the rule that prohibits you from entering and leaving reserves the same turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/13 23:48:56
Then ask for further clarifications. Since it isn't saying it can't and it would have been easy to reference the FAQ in one line to just say no. I seen someone ask it, but it would be good to have more people asking for further clarifications.
I'm not arguing if it's balanced or right. I'm arguing the logic and the order of operations. As it is it could use further clarification. I personally feel the way it's worded implies it truly does mean any and all turns. Or else they would say they can reenter on your next turn like in the ITC. It's pretty obvious the FAQ crew are familiar with the ITC FAQ so its likely they seen the Tau one as well and chose this wording specifically.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/13 23:48:49
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
if its anchored (edit) 
/ BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.