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This week's FAQ for Tyranids is up.

Oh man, great job GW. "The rules for the Trygon's tunnel are stupid, how are we supposed to even get it to work?"

[Dodges question by stating the rules]

So, that remains useless. Everything else is stuff that people already assumed.

Edit: HOWEVER, Termagants that are spawned from a Tervigon count as having Obj Sec. That's legit, I guess.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Oh man, great job GW. "The rules for the Trygon's tunnel are stupid, how are we supposed to even get it to work?"

[Dodges question by stating the rules]

So, that remains useless. Everything else is stuff that people already assumed.

They didn't dodge any questions they clarified the rule. The faq is not there to rewrite rules you don't like.
The follow up question for the endless swarm type units is a great way to use the tunnel if it works.
And just because you assume something didn't mean people agree with you. A good example was the tyrannocyte firing arcs.

gungo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Oh man, great job GW. "The rules for the Trygon's tunnel are stupid, how are we supposed to even get it to work?"

[Dodges question by stating the rules]

So, that remains useless. Everything else is stuff that people already assumed.

They didn't dodge any questions they clarified the rule. The faq is not there to rewrite rules you don't like.
The follow up question for the endless swarm type units is a great way to use the tunnel if it works.
And just because you assume something didn't mean people agree with you. A good example was the tyrannocyte firing arcs.

Yeah I've only ever used Trygon tunnels with the endless swarm-type rules. Solely within the codex the rule isn't great, but perhaps the reason they added these formations was to help mitigate it.

I really don't get the Tyrannocyte ruling though. Nowhere in the rules does it mention vehicle firing arc rules; it's a monstrous creature.

gungo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Oh man, great job GW. "The rules for the Trygon's tunnel are stupid, how are we supposed to even get it to work?"

[Dodges question by stating the rules]

So, that remains useless. Everything else is stuff that people already assumed.

They didn't dodge any questions they clarified the rule. The faq is not there to rewrite rules you don't like.
The follow up question for the endless swarm type units is a great way to use the tunnel if it works.
And just because you assume something didn't mean people agree with you. A good example was the tyrannocyte firing arcs.

Most people played it that way from what I could tell.

And you're right, they did clarify the ruling for the Trygon. They clarified that "Yes, it is a bad rule. Move along now."

Well, now we can use Infiltrate near AoC allies.

gungo wrote:

And just because you assume something didn't mean people agree with you. A good example was the tyrannocyte firing arcs.

Tyrannocyte doesn't have firing arcs. It even says all 5 weapons can shoot at one target IF IT'S THE CLOSET. If there are two or more targets, then treat it as if they were firing arcs. Thing is what are the chances of two units or more being at the exact same distance?

So if only one unit is closer than another unit even though the "fire arcs" are different, all 5 weapons shoot at the closet mini.

 xttz wrote:

gungo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Oh man, great job GW. "The rules for the Trygon's tunnel are stupid, how are we supposed to even get it to work?"

[Dodges question by stating the rules]

So, that remains useless. Everything else is stuff that people already assumed.

They didn't dodge any questions they clarified the rule. The faq is not there to rewrite rules you don't like.
The follow up question for the endless swarm type units is a great way to use the tunnel if it works.
And just because you assume something didn't mean people agree with you. A good example was the tyrannocyte firing arcs.

Yeah I've only ever used Trygon tunnels with the endless swarm-type rules. Solely within the codex the rule isn't great, but perhaps the reason they added these formations was to help mitigate it.

I really don't get the Tyrannocyte ruling though. Nowhere in the rules does it mention vehicle firing arc rules; it's a monstrous creature.

To be fair they didn't say to use the vehicle rules. They kind of side stepped thier response by stating you can use the vehicle fire arcs example. It's a non-commit so way for them to tell you to use the vehicle rules for units at the same distance even though it makes no sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:

gungo wrote:

And just because you assume something didn't mean people agree with you. A good example was the tyrannocyte firing arcs.

Tyrannocyte doesn't have firing arcs. It even says all 5 weapons can shoot at one target IF IT'S THE CLOSET. If there are two or more targets, then treat it as if they were firing arcs. Thing is what are the chances of two units or more being at the exact same distance?

So if only one unit is closer than another unit even though the "fire arcs" are different, all 5 weapons shoot at the closet mini.

Read what you wrote
"They don't have fire arcs"
"Treat it as if they were firing arcs"
Corne back to me when you make sense. They basically gave them firing arcs even though they only shoot at the closest units.

Hmm. Still no Necrons. Not a whole lot that really needs clarifying with us (expect things like the Retribution Phalanx unit size issue), but I was really expecting us to follow Tau for some reason.

So any chance of getting the pics posted for the work blocked among us?

for the work blocked

I am shocked with the Hive Tyrant being able to leave the Tyrant Guard.

Hmmm. Flyrants can join and leave Tyrant Guard now. Have no idea if this is a good tactic, but it can be at least fun to use now.

I got to wonder if GW even read their rules for Hive Tyrants.. Can it leave a unit like other ICs? It's not even an IC!

I'm liking that they're keeping a consistent pace on these FAQs, I think every Wednesday for about a month now. I imagine they're getting about to the end of the FAQs at this point. What's left, necrons, IG, demons? Maybe space wolves?

Tyrannocyte fire arcs finally cleared up. Nerf imo :(
Nice old Mawloc being able to TFTD into combat though.

The biggest question for me - Tyrannocites can carry a unit (with attached IC) or a single MC. What about a unit that has a MC, like the Swarmlord and his Tyrant Guard? I would assume specific trumps general, but they are a unit.

 Kirasu wrote:
I got to wonder if GW even read their rules for Hive Tyrants.. Can it leave a unit like other ICs? It's not even an IC!

It has a rule letting it join units as if it were an IC.

Requizen wrote:
The biggest question for me - Tyrannocites can carry a unit (with attached IC) or a single MC. What about a unit that has a MC, like the Swarmlord and his Tyrant Guard? I would assume specific trumps general, but they are a unit.

Usually that would be fine, however MC's count as 20 models inside a Tyrannocyte which is equal to their capacity. Therefore there's no more room to fit guards inside.

Requizen wrote:
The biggest question for me - Tyrannocites can carry a unit (with attached IC) or a single MC. What about a unit that has a MC, like the Swarmlord and his Tyrant Guard? I would assume specific trumps general, but they are a unit.

I would definitely ask that one on FB. Glad to see AoC can be deployed within 12" of each other, but I'm still curious on the logic behind "ally as Tyranids" translating to "Allies of Convenience", but that's a discussion for another thread.

pm713 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I got to wonder if GW even read their rules for Hive Tyrants.. Can it leave a unit like other ICs? It's not even an IC!

It has a rule letting it join units as if it were an IC.

That's the kind of thinking that GW probably used too.. Except Hive Tyrants have no such rule. Hive Guard do have a rule that allow a Hive Tyrant to *join* the unit as if it were an IC.. Not leave nor does it confer the actual IC rule to the Hive Tyrant.
Big difference, but it doesn't really matter I suppose.

Welp. They just sort of by proxy made Skyblight damn near useless.

'Can units with Respawn mechanics arrive by Deep Strike if they have Deep Strike?'

'Nope, they arrive 'from Reserve'.'

Woo. Way to make those respawning gargoyle units useless.

 Ratius wrote:

Nice old Mawloc being able to TFTD into combat though.

Can this only be used once now? I always thought when burrowing you get to use this attack again, but now I noticed with the burrow rule is different than what I thought. Getting back into 40K and all these new FAQ rulings coming in now, I am confused what is Ongoing reserves and Deep Strike Reservers. Are they different or the same thing? I thought it was you can always use the TFTD when you come back, but now with the new FAQ ruling, I am not so sure now.

 Kirasu wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I got to wonder if GW even read their rules for Hive Tyrants.. Can it leave a unit like other ICs? It's not even an IC!

It has a rule letting it join units as if it were an IC.

That's the kind of thinking that GW probably used too.. Except Hive Tyrants have no such rule. Hive Guard do have a rule that allow a Hive Tyrant to *join* the unit as if it were an IC.. Not leave nor does it confer the actual IC rule to the Hive Tyrant.
Big difference, but it doesn't really matter I suppose.

Plus the question wasn't worded how you say it up there. It asked if it can leave like ICs normally can do. Small distinction, but it doesn't specifically call out the Tyrant as an IC. And from your most recent post, it basically means that the question was asked *because* the Guard have the rule that allows the Tyrant to join them, but doesn't explicitly say it can ever leave. Now we know it is allowed to leave the Guard unit. The FAQ doesn't say anything about treating it as an IC in any other way than being allowed to join and (now) leave the unit.

 Ratius wrote:
Tyrannocyte fire arcs finally cleared up. Nerf imo :(

Hardly. That's a pretty sensible judgement there. Even Tyranids have a limit to their range of muscle movements. Venom cannons are pretty nasty.

Davor wrote:

 Ratius wrote:

Nice old Mawloc being able to TFTD into combat though.

Can this only be used once now? I always thought when burrowing you get to use this attack again, but now I noticed with the burrow rule is different than what I thought. Getting back into 40K and all these new FAQ rulings coming in now, I am confused what is Ongoing reserves and Deep Strike Reservers. Are they different or the same thing? I thought it was you can always use the TFTD when you come back, but now with the new FAQ ruling, I am not so sure now.

Nothing has changed with Terror From the Deep, they just calrified that you can hit invisible and locked in combat units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Tyrannocyte fire arcs finally cleared up. Nerf imo :(

Hardly. That's a pretty sensible judgement there. Even Tyranids have a limit to their range of muscle movements. Venom cannons are pretty nasty.

And yet it's a Monstrous Creature with a 360 degree firing arc.

 Imateria wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Tyrannocyte fire arcs finally cleared up. Nerf imo :(

Hardly. That's a pretty sensible judgement there. Even Tyranids have a limit to their range of muscle movements. Venom cannons are pretty nasty.

And yet it's a Monstrous Creature with a 360 degree firing arc.

What I'm getting at is, you can't direct all/most of it at one high value target.

Eh, I think the fire arc ruling on the tyrannocyte was a mistake, unless we are supposed to draw LOS from all monstrous creatures weapons to their target now. Why can't it be assumed that as it is a living, floating thing that it could rotate as it fires each cannon at a target?

 Stormonu wrote:
Eh, I think the fire arc ruling on the tyrannocyte was a mistake, unless we are supposed to draw LOS from all monstrous creatures weapons to their target now. Why can't it be assumed that as it is a living, floating thing that it could rotate as it fires each cannon at a target?

It finally hit me. Just coming back to 40K again so not sure how all the rules work so could be wrong. The way I see it now is, It's not a mistake that a Monstrous Creature fires 360 degrees, it's the "Instinctive Fire" rule that doesn't have 360 degrees of fire, and clearly says to measure from the barrel and not the base. So MC rules are still in effect it's the Instinctive Fire rule that overrides the MC rules on how shooting works since this is done at the END of the shooting phase.

 Stormonu wrote:
Eh, I think the fire arc ruling on the tyrannocyte was a mistake, unless we are supposed to draw LOS from all monstrous creatures weapons to their target now. Why can't it be assumed that as it is a living, floating thing that it could rotate as it fires each cannon at a target?

Moving on the spot counts as moving IIRC.

The way they described the firing Arc rules for the Tyrannocyte isn't because of some change to MC rules. It's cuz they designed the Tyrannocyte as a Tyranid Drop Pod, then realized that Tyranids don't use vehicle rules so they just effectively gave an undercosted Carnifex five times the weapons.

All of that nonsense is suppose to say "The Tyrannocyte's cannons are suppose to each fire at a different target that they're pointing at", except in longer, less coherent rule-talk.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The way they described the firing Arc rules for the Tyrannocyte isn't because of some change to MC rules. It's cuz they designed the Tyrannocyte as a Tyranid Drop Pod, then realized that Tyranids don't use vehicle rules so they just effectively gave an undercosted Carnifex five times the weapons.

Tyrannocytes are undercosted now? At 75 points. Are you kiddin me? For less than half of it's cost an imperial player gets two Obsec drop pods with AV12. You know, there's a reason why you don't see Tcytes outside casual play. And that was BEFORE this nerf.
And T5 isn't much in todays meta with so many 12" move S10 cc units.

Before the derpcytes, in the previous codex Nids had Mycetic Spores that costed 40pts. Cheap enough to spam so you could actually afford an army that packed some punch when it landed. Their native S6 opened up many a Rhino for my Dakkafexes to spew maggots over the soft content.

Still on the whole it's a more positive faq than I had anticipated. Obsec spawned Gants is big, and AoC ignored for the sake of deployment means I can actually buy some Genestealer Cult!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Oh man, great job GW. "The rules for the Trygon's tunnel are stupid, how are we supposed to even get it to work?"

[Dodges question by stating the rules]

So, that remains useless. Everything else is stuff that people already assumed.

They didn't dodge any questions they clarified the rule. The faq is not there to rewrite rules you don't like.

Yeah, not like they rewrote that you can actually infiltrate within 12" of enemy models or anything...