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Big day of elections today here in the UK: Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland vote in their respected devolved administrations, council elections in England, new mayor for London, and police and crime commissioners for England and Wales.

Hopefully, we'll see a good turnout, as there is a major concern about turnout for council elections in England, and the Welsh assembly turnout seems to be going downhill. In many ways, I don't blame voters for feeling detached.

Anyway, what about my fellow dakka members? Is everybody hitting the polling booths?

Who's going to win in London?

Will Corbyn have a nightmare day?

And what the dakka are these police and crime commissioners?

Of course I'm voting. Tory all the way!!!!!


( I'm kidding.)


There is a more important vote in Wales, we are actually having a mini referendum on whether the Welsh Assembly is a good or bad thing.

Where I live the only election today is for Police and Crime Commissioner.

Like last time, I am withholding my vote in the hope that we will get another record low turnout for these unwanted, not understood and un-asked-for politically imposed posts.

Last time the turnout was under 15%, but that was helped by holding the poll in crappy November weather. I am worried that today's sparkling late spring sunshine will push up attendance significantly, so I am using all the powers of apathy at my disposal to try and keep things down.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Where I live the only election today is for Police and Crime Commissioner.

Like last time, I am withholding my vote in the hope that we will get another record low turnout for these unwanted, not understood and un-asked-for politically imposed posts.

Last time the turnout was under 15%, but that was helped by holding the poll in crappy November weather. I am worried that today's sparkling late spring sunshine will push up attendance significantly, so I am using all the powers of apathy at my disposal to try and keep things down.

What's your beef with the commissioners? Given the revelations from the Hillsborough tragedy, I thought more oversight of the police was a good thing?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Of course I'm voting. Tory all the way!!!!!


( I'm kidding.)


There is a more important vote in Wales, we are actually having a mini referendum on whether the Welsh Assembly is a good or bad thing.

Looking in from the outside, it seems to me that the Welsh assembly never really took off in the way that the Scottish Parliament did, and low turnout seems to be a problem, plus the fact that Labour have dominated for so long.

Plaid Cymru are promising a referendum on more powers if they win, but I've never had you down as a Plaid supporter, so I don't know how that'll go.

https://vine.co/v/ixj5tO3H1zp


He's watching !

Where I live the only election today is for Police and Crime Commissioner.

Same.

Hooray for pointless political appointments !

 reds8n wrote:
https://vine.co/v/ixj5tO3H1zp


He's watching !

Where I live the only election today is for Police and Crime Commissioner.

Same.

Hooray for pointless political appointments !

Admittedly, my research is a quick 5 minutes on Wikipedia

but I'm not seeing a downside with these commissioners. Surely more democratic control over the police and more police accountability is a good thing?

You of all people should know that "democratic control" is a buzzword that politicians deploy or not while carrying on doing whatever they want.

Case in point: the current academisation "debate" involves a Conservative government chosen by only 24% of the electorate ramming through a change in education organisation that wasn't in their manifesto, which is broadly opposed by parents, teachers and educationalists, has little evidential basis, and whose effect is to remove schools from the control of the democratically elected local councils and marshall them directly under the department of education.

The UK surely could use better oversight of the police, so let's beef up the Police Complaints Commission and give them proper teeth.

If electing politicians to oversee the police is so important, why is the UK's largest force -- the Met -- not subject to the same regime?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


but I'm not seeing a downside with these commissioners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Barnes_(police_commissioner)

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Of course I'm voting. Tory all the way!!!!!


( I'm kidding.)


There is a more important vote in Wales, we are actually having a mini referendum on whether the Welsh Assembly is a good or bad thing.

Looking in from the outside, it seems to me that the Welsh assembly never really took off in the way that the Scottish Parliament did, and low turnout seems to be a problem, plus the fact that Labour have dominated for so long.

Plaid Cymru are promising a referendum on more powers if they win, but I've never had you down as a Plaid supporter, so I don't know how that'll go.

If I remember the 1997 vote was won by a few hundred votes on a 30% turnout. It barely scraped through.

And Plaid don't really appeal to me. I've never wanted independence for Wales. My country has partically no money outside of tourism.

But Swansea West ( my local constituency) has been Labour for nearly 100 years now. But the council is Lib-Lab, and useless.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
https://vine.co/v/ixj5tO3H1zp


He's watching !

Where I live the only election today is for Police and Crime Commissioner.

Same.

Hooray for pointless political appointments !

Admittedly, my research is a quick 5 minutes on Wikipedia

but I'm not seeing a downside with these commissioners. Surely more democratic control over the police and more police accountability is a good thing?

Just take a look at the US for the damage political policing can do.

The police were previously accountable to the home office. Where there have been problems it has not been lack of accountability, but failings in the oversight, which can still happen, more so in fact as it is being done by local career politicians.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
You of all people should know that "democratic control" is a buzzword that politicians deploy or not while carrying on doing whatever they want.

Case in point: the current academisation "debate" involves a Conservative government chosen by only 24% of the electorate ramming through a change in education organisation that wasn't in their manifesto, which is broadly opposed by parents, teachers and educationalists, has little evidential basis, and whose effect is to remove schools from the control of the democratically elected local councils and marshall them directly under the department of education.

The UK surely could use better oversight of the police, so let's beef up the Police Complaints Commission and give them proper teeth.

If electing politicians to oversee the police is so important, why is the UK's largest force -- the Met -- not subject to the same regime?

Political manifestos are not legally binding, but I agree with some of what you're saying. Yes, the Tories got in on 24% of the vote, which is a travesty, but that's because the FPTP system is broken.

Up here in Scotland, we're lucky that education separate because of the act of union, so I don't know a lot about these academies.

As for your point about the Met, I completely agree.


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 reds8n wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


but I'm not seeing a downside with these commissioners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Barnes_(police_commissioner)

Ok. so there's one bad apple, but I still think it's a good idea in principal...if done properly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 welshhoppo wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Of course I'm voting. Tory all the way!!!!!


( I'm kidding.)


There is a more important vote in Wales, we are actually having a mini referendum on whether the Welsh Assembly is a good or bad thing.

Looking in from the outside, it seems to me that the Welsh assembly never really took off in the way that the Scottish Parliament did, and low turnout seems to be a problem, plus the fact that Labour have dominated for so long.

Plaid Cymru are promising a referendum on more powers if they win, but I've never had you down as a Plaid supporter, so I don't know how that'll go.

If I remember the 1997 vote was won by a few hundred votes on a 30% turnout. It barely scraped through.

And Plaid don't really appeal to me. I've never wanted independence for Wales. My country has partically no money outside of tourism.

But Swansea West ( my local constituency) has been Labour for nearly 100 years now. But the council is Lib-Lab, and useless.

I sense a golden opportunity for you to run as an independent and shake up city hall!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
https://vine.co/v/ixj5tO3H1zp


He's watching !

Where I live the only election today is for Police and Crime Commissioner.

Same.

Hooray for pointless political appointments !

Admittedly, my research is a quick 5 minutes on Wikipedia

but I'm not seeing a downside with these commissioners. Surely more democratic control over the police and more police accountability is a good thing?

Just take a look at the US for the damage political policing can do.

The police were previously accountable to the home office. Where there have been problems it has not been lack of accountability, but failings in the oversight, which can still happen, more so in fact as it is being done by local career politicians.

Any new system was always going to have problems in the beginning, but I still think the theory behind it is sound.

I've received SNP and Green fliers through my door and nothing else. It's almost as if the Tories know just how much the locals hate them.

I almost, almost, put my cross in the box of the local council NF candidate!!!!

I had forgotten that they were a thing.

I shall ignore the naysayers and carry on regardless

Anyway, I've voted, I did my civic duty, and now I have this smug sense of moral superiority.

 Wulfmar wrote:
I've received SNP and Green fliers through my door and nothing else. It's almost as if the Tories know just how much the locals hate them.

I've had the full whack save UKIP, but tellingly only the SNP & Greens had activists out delivering flyers and chatting with folk on the doorstep round my bit, all three of the UK parties had to resort to mass mailing to get their leaflets out. The Tory one is hilarious; if you squint really really hard at just the right angle, you can spot a single mention of the Conservatives on it, anyone who didn't know what was up would think it was a flyer for the Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition No Surrender to a Second Referendum Party

A lot of folk seem to be writing off this election as "boring", but there are two fairly substantial questions that could go either way; will the SNP keep their majority and will the Tories overtake Labour? The former certainly isn't a foregone conclusion, particularly after some slightly dishonest coverage of the Holyrood electoral system by Green/RISE supporting elements of the new media, and the latter is actually a fairly big deal, marking either a further fairly drastic decline in Labour's fortunes up here or very likely the end of Ruth Davidson's tenure as leader of the Tories(I can't see how she could stay on after virtually rebranding the party with her own name and image, staking both on being the new official opposition, then failing to get there, particularly if they end up with a more normal vote share than some of the outlier opinion polls have predicted).

Still, I'm setting my sights nice and low; as long as that bumbling second-rate Jabba the Hutt Coburn doesn't get elected, I'll call today a win.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
I almost, almost, put my cross in the box of the local council NF candidate!!!!

I had forgotten that they were a thing.

Are they still battling the BNP for the lost deposit vote?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
I've received SNP and Green fliers through my door and nothing else. It's almost as if the Tories know just how much the locals hate them.

I've had the full whack save UKIP, but tellingly only the SNP & Greens had activists out delivering flyers and chatting with folk on the doorstep round my bit, all three of the UK parties had to resort to mass mailing to get their leaflets out. The Tory one is hilarious; if you squint really really hard at just the right angle, you can spot a single mention of the Conservatives on it, anyone who didn't know what was up would think it was a flyer for the Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition No Surrender to a Second Referendum Party

A lot of folk seem to be writing off this election as "boring", but there are two fairly substantial questions that could go either way; will the SNP keep their majority and will the Tories overtake Labour? The former certainly isn't a foregone conclusion, particularly after some slightly dishonest coverage of the Holyrood electoral system by Green/RISE supporting elements of the new media, and the latter is actually a fairly big deal, marking either a further fairly drastic decline in Labour's fortunes up here or very likely the end of Ruth Davidson's tenure as leader of the Tories(I can't see how she could stay on after virtually rebranding the party with her own name and image, staking both on being the new official opposition, then failing to get there, particularly if they end up with a more normal vote share than some of the outlier opinion polls have predicted).

Still, I'm setting my sights nice and low; as long as that bumbling second-rate Jabba the Hutt Coburn doesn't get elected, I'll call today a win.

Agreed, people forget that a SNP majority is no means guaranteed, and they forget that the Scottish Parliament was designed to stop majorities.

Wonder what effect Carmichael will have on the Liberals chances in Orkney?

Hmn, if only you could do this sort of thing online, or if voting was mandatory. People are too lazy to show up to this sort of thing.

Meanwhile I'm just apathetic.

The British Communist party were on my 'list' voting slip. Their "Hammer and Dove" logo is quite cool.

Lets see what the counting comes up with tomorrow. It's either going to be really dull and predictable in Scotland, or utterly crazy with none of the expected results happening. I'm hoping for crazy.

Set up a proxy, that's what I've done, had an exam today in Glasgow so voting in Perth wasn't really an option

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Hmn, if only you could do this sort of thing online, or if voting was mandatory. People are too lazy to show up to this sort of thing.

Meanwhile I'm just apathetic.

As you know, most of Scotland was pretty engaged with the independence referendum and last year's GE, because they had something to vote for, and town hall meetings were springing up all over the place.

I predict a high turnout for the EU referendum, because people know that their vote will count. Give them something to vote for, and they'll engage.

If you build it, they will come


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Graphite wrote:
The British Communist party were on my 'list' voting slip. Their "Hammer and Dove" logo is quite cool.

Lets see what the counting comes up with tomorrow. It's either going to be really dull and predictable in Scotland, or utterly crazy with none of the expected results happening. I'm hoping for crazy.

I'm hearing a lot of talk about this being the building blocks for a Lib Dem comeback, but hopefully, they'll get a boot up the rear.

Agreed on turnout for the referendum. It'll be high as hell, because it's important people know their vote counts. Low turnout comes from a feeling that voting doesn't matter, or that everything will likely stay the same so there's no need. Important referenda are different.

I also think referenda are less tribal and more personal. The way the media reports on it, you'd think the only people who got to vote were senior politicians and public figures. But it doesn't really matter what Corbyn, Farage or the Pig Fether say. Individual voters now get the power of choice.

I will be watching how Labour do. If they do badly, the problems with traitorous Blairites sniping at the leader will continue, and to be honest that's the outcome I expect since the media have been laying it on thick the last week or so while simultaneously building expectations as high as possible.

Lib Dems I don't expect to do well this time. They'll get some victories and it'll be blown out of proportion. But I am curious about UKIP! Not sure how they'll do.

Tories will hopefully do badly. They deserve to - they're doing a piss poor job of governing.

I will be watching how Labour do. If they do badly, the problems with traitorous Blairites sniping at the leader will continue, and to be honest that's the outcome I expect since the media have been laying it on thick the last week or so while simultaneously building expectations as high as possible.

Agreed. I'm expecting a leadership challenge in the next few months. They've never forgiven Corbyn for his leadership victory.

I just voted (for the Cumbrian PCC).

Given it is half way through the day, the list of voter names I saw suggested turnout % will not be especially high.

I'm underwhelmed

(especially with the fairly useless police and crime commissioners who seem to be just an added layer of bureaucracy and incompetance)

but I've voted anyway as everybody should (even if the choose to spoil their ballot)

Well, at least two people had the guts to defy Kilkrazy and go out and vote for a police commissioner

I'll be voting for a PCC. But I'll vote for the ex-bobbies (like last time) and not party apparatchiks. Pity I can't vote in Warwickshire's PCC (I'm in West Mids) - David Whitehouse, the independent candidate, is an ex-chief superintendent and he's an excellent bloke. Met him a few times before and he'd be good to have in that position.

 zedmeister wrote:
I'll be voting for a PCC. But I'll vote for the ex-bobbies (like last time) and not party apparatchiks. Pity I can't vote in Warwickshire's PCC (I'm in West Mids) - David Whitehouse, the independent candidate, is an ex-chief superintendent and he's an excellent bloke. Met him a few times before and he'd be good to have in that position.

Anybody voting in the council elections? They get a low turnout, but it's surprising how much of the important bread and butter stuff they handle.

I will be voting later this evening when I (finally) finish work. We have council and PCC's as far as I am aware.

Only had one person campaigning door to door (Tories), though that may just be because I had a day off during the week a couple of weeks ago when he was going round. Had leaflets from Labour, Tories, an indy and I think the Greens. Also UKIP (which appropriately I used to clean up some cat poop).

Greens poll reasonably strongly around Oxfordshire so I am hoping that they get some seats (and I will be voting Green).

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Agreed, people forget that a SNP majority is no means guaranteed, and they forget that the Scottish Parliament was designed to stop majorities.

Wonder what effect Carmichael will have on the Liberals chances in Orkney?

Indeed, and some of my fellow radical left indie supporters seem to be willfully ignoring the fact that the trad media and UK parties aren't going to be nice about things and factor the Greens in to a "pro-indy majority" at Holyrood - if the SNP don't get a straight majority on their own, which as you say is difficult enough under Holyrood's AMS system...I mean jeebus, parts of the trad media already alternate between "the SNP are a busted flush, you'll see" and "WHY WON'T YOU STUPID PLEBS LISTEN TO ME AND STOP VOTING SNP?!" depending on the whether the most recent poll has them up or down 1% and that's when they've got the majority and are governing, the level of sheer hysterical doomsaying the likes of McColm and Daisley would unleash would be staggering even by their standards(and remember these are the kind of folks who regularly use words like "Ulsterification" to describe an entirely peaceful referendum that they won, and who describe a parliament with a proportional voting system as a "one party state" because about half the population voted for one party in a multi-party election, so the bar is already pretty high ). I've always said to folk; if you want to vote Green or RISE on the list, you absolutely should, but the way some activists have been pretending that we can game the system to get an SNP majority AND return loads of radical left pro-indy MSPs are just being dishonest.

As for Orkney, and Shetland...not sure tbh. The SNP were ten points behind the Liberals last time in Orkney, but this time you have a combination of Liar Carmichael who could well provoke both a backlash against the Liberals AND a more intense Unionist tactical vote to keep them in(since nobody will be unaware it's a battleground seat, and the extreme end of the Yoon spectrum hated the idea that constituents could hold their MP to account for what they saw as a righteous attempt to bring down "The Beast"), but things are complicated by the fact the independent candidate James Stockan isn't running this time, and he got as many votes as the SNP in '11, so I suspect there Carmichael's main impact will be decided on how former Stockan voters feel about it, on which score I have no clue. Shetland is similar, but less-so, given the independent who's not running there this time got fewer votes and Tavish Scott has a bigger majority, so I suspect if there is a backlash it still won't be enough to unseat him.

 zedmeister wrote:
I'll be voting for a PCC. But I'll vote for the ex-bobbies (like last time) and not party apparatchiks. Pity I can't vote in Warwickshire's PCC (I'm in West Mids) - David Whitehouse, the independent candidate, is an ex-chief superintendent and he's an excellent bloke. Met him a few times before and he'd be good to have in that position.

Doesn't that rather defeat the intended purpose though? If PCCs are supposed to provide oversight, anyone but a former copper(who would doubtless continue their fine tradition of sweeping anything uncomfortable under the rug and quietly shuffling the worst wrongdoers into retirement) would seem to be a better candidate.

Labour have never won in my constituency. Lib Dems had a good run until they imploded, but I'm 98% sure it's going to stay firmly Conservative.

I'm still going to vote, but the tide of rich, blue voters will sweep everyone else aside.