Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Oops, got the 2-3 and 1-3 backwards.

Still I feel 2 Wazbombs, one being a wing leader could potentially be 3 kmk shots, 3 smasha gun shots and 7 supa shoota shots.

Especially since in use my heavy support for Traktor kannons and tanks, and never had enough space for other mek guns.

And I already have 3 blitz bombers , so adding the Wazbom gives me the option for the pattern and formation.

So we're up to a minimum purchase of two of these for a *chance* at a really good wing leader trait that *might* make these 300 points consisting of 150$ of models not awful?

Well I'm convinced. I just wasn't looking at them in context, clearly.

Unless you don't own any flyers already you need 2.

Not like this is the first time GW didn't require several models to get a good bonus.

Has any one played with the new flyer with formations or patterns yet to determine if it's good or bad ? Or just assuming off of 1 data sheet ?

I practically just bought the last £27.50 Ork Flyer in my local GW to complete a four Flyer skwadron.

I can't justify the price tag, even when the employee tried to hard sell it as 'four models' which it is not, it's one model out of a choice of four.

It doesnt even look that good shooting wise. BS 2 makes most everything on it useless, and the few things that arent require you to not be jinked, and becausd it's 10/10/10 you're going to be jinking a lot. Im sticking with my bommer.

Too bad it's suxh a damn good looking model.

I think it looks pretty cool, but I will not buy it because I have plenty to paint already.

the_scotsman wrote:


The tellyport blasta? Effectively, you get pen on a 6 only vs AV14 (vs any other AV, you already pen on a 6..), your range gets halved, you get rid of Gets Hot and you get instant death against T5+ stuff on a 6. It's still a single S8 AP2 blast.

If you read the teeny-tiny fine print, it's not a tellyport blasta. it's a tellyport MEGA blasta. I assume there is some difference, though don't know what.

Unless the mega armor big mek option is also called a tellyport mega blasta, though I don't think it is.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Good god, WHY GAMES WORKSHOP??

Well that just ruined it for me. ANOTHER FETHING AV 10/10/10 FLYER! wtf GW you guys are absolutely the worst game designers in the history of table top games.

140pts, plus the KFF +the back turret, your looking at a 185pt fething model that has AV10. I hate you GW so fething much.

You're also looking at a 185 pt fething model with AV10 that can be taken in a formation with any three of the other flyer types, where they all act as a single wing and can be placed into an attack plan where they gain It Will Not Die in addition to the formation itself granting them a 4+ Invulnerable Save against all attacks or a 5+ Invulnerable Save via the KFF versus Shooting Attacks.

That's in addition to them being "Hard To Hit" to start with, mind.

 Kanluwen wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Good god, WHY GAMES WORKSHOP??

Well that just ruined it for me. ANOTHER FETHING AV 10/10/10 FLYER! wtf GW you guys are absolutely the worst game designers in the history of table top games.

140pts, plus the KFF +the back turret, your looking at a 185pt fething model that has AV10. I hate you GW so fething much.

You're also looking at a 185 pt fething model with AV10 that can be taken in a formation with any three of the other flyer types, where they all act as a single wing and can be placed into an attack plan where they gain It Will Not Die in addition to the formation itself granting them a 4+ Invulnerable Save against all attacks or a 5+ Invulnerable Save via the KFF versus Shooting Attacks.

That's in addition to them being "Hard To Hit" to start with, mind.

It's actually even better than that. The ork formation in that pattern gives

3++ invulnerable to all flyers in the pattern
It will will not die
Interceptor

And the Wazbom can be the wing leader for additional benefits.

I can honestly not believe that anyone, anywhere, thought for an instant that the ork flyer would somehow be AV12.

So, it's extra confusing to hear people complain about its AV being the exact same as all other ork flyers.

Overpriced sprue added to an existing box - raising the price of both for 'optional plastic bits' that I'll probably never use.

Dodgy rules making it a weak model that can't fire if it jinks.

Not so keen on the weapons and additional gubbins (just not my taste).

Generally sour feeling towards GW for this sort of 'dual kit' nonsense rather than releasing things as either an optional upgrade sprue OR separate kit.


No, I shan't be buying it.

Ork , eldar and dark eldar flyers are all 10/10/10
Tau 11/10/10
Necron 11/11/11
IG 12/12/10
SM 12/12/12 or 11/11/11
Chaos 12/12/10

Not sure why people think flyers (orks in particular) should be higher than 10 or 11.

And orks and the hell drake are the only ones with an invul and orks can extent to protect other flyers.

They also all sit from 110 - 180 point range, and have equivalent fire power.

What did ork players expect a 13/13/13with a 2++ flyer that fires 10 BS4 D shots for 50 points ?

The Smasha Gun will cause 1(1/3)(1/2)= 0.17 HPs of damage per turn to AV 11 assuming average S 7 (Average d6 = 3.5 rounds to 4 + 3 for S 7), which averages to 0.68 HPs in a four turn game. 3 models will cause 2.04 HPs in that span. Even basic cover will reduce that by 30%.

3 KMK shots will average (1/3)(2/3) = 0.66 HP in the same circumstances, or 0.22 HPs per kmk per turn. Four turns means 2.4 HPs, average cover drops that by 30% too.

The supa shootas will average 3(1/3)(1/3) = 0.33 HPs, over four turns is 1.32 HPs. Vs MEQs it's 3(1/3)(5/6)(1/3) = 0.27 wounds, or 1.28 wounds over four turns.

in conclusion, you can reasonably expect 450 points worth of models to knock out 70 points of enemy AV 11 vehicles. (Not figuring in cover.) You don't even want to see that math on AV12.

You don't have to have the model on the table and the dice in your hand to realize that it's not going to be effective. Those survivability buffs are nice but they can't hold objectives or anything, increase the cost roughly 30%, basically makes them inert at best. I mentioned they can't hold objectives because why else would somebody even bother targeting something relatively difficult to kill if it has no damage output?

Yet I've had 2 kmb shots take out a knight.....

Math hammer is the worst way to decide if a model is effective imo.

As for objectives, it can't claim , but it can block enemies from claiming with its base size by landing on an objective.

Are you factoring in that 3 wazbom jets could have tank hunter or ignores cover ?

Not taking either side here... anyone else get the feeling that in order for units to be worth taking, you need to buy lots of them and play in games that are 2k points and above?

Seems like a money making ploy to me

In small point games I can see 1 or 2 of these being effective. My blitz bombers work all at smaller point games since there is much less that can threaten them. So I imagine the Wazbom will be the same.

I'm going actually play with the model though before final judgement, but based off experience with my bombers , it will work well in my list and play style.

If you disagree with statistics or math as a whole we don't really have a framework to even begin discussion. I don't want to address your anecdote, it's personal to you and irrelevant to me and leads the both of us into an unfair situation where either one of us could feel like we're being attacked personally.

Why would it matter if I factored in tank hunter if the math is irrelevant? If you are interested, as I understand it there's a 1/6 or ~17% chance of getting it, so simply add (5/6) to the above formulas and (1/6) to an equivalent formula factoring in tank hunter, then add the two result together and divide by 2. I only mention cover as a caveat after the fact, the calculations themselves essentially assume ignore cover.

I'm basing my opinion of using the other ork flyers in games and how effective they have been for me and what I think would make them better. And in several games I wish I had AP2 range weapons other than the boom bombs. Now i do, which make me believe these will work well.

People say blitz bombers are bad, I've had them win game for me by taking out key units.

Now applying game experience of others flyers and factoring in the different weapons on the wazbom, I can estimate the outcome / effectiveness of the flyer.

Math is great for some people, but I weigh actual game experience higher. Especially now since death from the skies adds in more variables suchs as higher BS , tank hunter, more shots, higher strength etc. You cant take the base unit, apply math and decide it it's good or bad, imo.

Do have experience with the other flyers to base this one off of ?

If you roll one die any number will turn up. If you roll a thousand each number will come up a roughly equal amount of times.

I understand you feeling that way but I don't feel like you give the appropriate weight to statistics in a randomized number based game. We can agree to disagree.

Let's not get personal.

Not trying to get personal =) I just view actually game experience higher than math hammer.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Ork , eldar and dark eldar flyers are all 10/10/10
Tau 11/10/10
Necron 11/11/11
IG 12/12/10
SM 12/12/12 or 11/11/11
Chaos 12/12/10

Not sure why people think flyers (orks in particular) should be higher than 10 or 11.

And orks and the hell drake are the only ones with an invul and orks can extent to protect other flyers.

They also all sit from 110 - 180 point range, and have equivalent fire power.

What did ork players expect a 13/13/13with a 2++ flyer that fires 10 BS4 D shots for 50 points ?

Well. I have 2 DakkaJets, one of which can be magged for any of the normal 3. This model by itself is over costed and will underperform in the **current** competitive meta. It just is. These formations although seemingly good, imagine the foot print of such a beast. Its gigantic! It will be nigh impossible to get a vector on a ground target. Furthermore getting it off the board without a crash and burn because you cant place it seens like a distinct possibility. But... time will tell..

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Not trying to get personal =) I just view actually game experience higher than math hammer.

I understand that, but it shuts down basically all analysis and discussion. I could do the math on your anecdote regarding the knight for example, but if that's dismissed then the only thing I can address is you personally and that's something I'd rather not do because you seem like an pleasant person. You might take your anecdote as evidence for you being a great player, and maybe you are, but for me to infer that's just luck could be offensive to that point of view. You feelin me? I didn't mean to imply that you had personally attacked me, you didn't, I'm just wary of internet discussions that boil down to who's the better player, because we've seen things like that escalate.

In any case, maybe write up a bat rep or two when you get the new flier, let us know how it goes!

My biggest problem with it sp far (I've already mentioned the price hike, which I've calculated to be a 68% from the previous box) is that it's BS2 on single shot platforms that vary in strength.

I'll reserve final judgment when I see the wargear stats but quite frankly it's almost as good as the Orkurion.

There is one thing I am really looking forward to in dfts and it's 2+ reserves when I have 1 flyer and my opponent has none. The Blitza bommer is worth that and it's worth showing up and reliably getting at least a single large ap2 blast down. Then it's usually worthless for the rest of the game, either dying because my opponent snaps a high ROF gun at it and blows through its paper armor, or it gets denied a target because my opponent is smart enough to know how to outmaneuver a flyer.

I don't need "baseless math hammer" to know I'm going to prefer a large blast with armorbane to a small blast, a BS2 shot, and an invuln that's not going to matter because it's a 5++ on an AV10 platform.

Averages do matter, and do determine the effectiveness of your stuff. GW seems to think the tiny probability do something above average happening justifies blanket crap rules on everything the orks have.

I can't wait for our next formation! Rumor has it it's 4,570 points worth of morkanauts, and if you roll a 12 in 2D6 they get PLUS ONE STRENGTH, but to balance that out if you roll. 2 they all blow up.

Where are these new rules going to be? Is it a special flyer book, some kind of datasheet that comes with the box?

Strange, the flyer wing upgrade per model is 15 points cheaper then the first model.

Do we get 2 tellyporta shots with a WAAAGH plane?
Still overcosted and av10 all around. Pretty meh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
It doesnt even look that good shooting wise. BS 2 makes most everything on it useless, and the few things that arent require you to not be jinked, and becausd it's 10/10/10 you're going to be jinking a lot. Im sticking with my bommer.

Too bad it's suxh a damn good looking model.

You can no longer perform bombing runs after jinking. New FAQ. So, they're both pretty bad now.

 koooaei wrote:
Do we get 2 tellyporta shots with a WAAAGH plane?
Still overcosted and av10 all around. Pretty meh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
It doesnt even look that good shooting wise. BS 2 makes most everything on it useless, and the few things that arent require you to not be jinked, and becausd it's 10/10/10 you're going to be jinking a lot. Im sticking with my bommer.

Too bad it's suxh a damn good looking model.

You can no longer perform bombing runs after jinking. New FAQ. So, they're both pretty bad now.

games-workshop just really had to pee in the Ork's Khorneflakes.