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bleak wrote:
For a 2 day work, I think its mighty impressive.

I suppose. But I would have been more impressed if they'd had the self-awareness to spend an extra day and do it right instead of rushing it out asap. And I even pointed out how doing a rush job on the OSL is why it looks terrible.

Sure its not perfect, but you give way less credit than what the artist who did this deserve.

No, I gave them exactly what they deserve: credit for doing some good work, but honest criticism of low-quality OSL work. I don't award an A for effort.

Still, I guess your critique would be decent if you didn't complain so much.

And I wouldn't complain so much if the piece in question wasn't badly flawed and deserving of complaints. Please don't fall into the trap of assuming that only "WOW THIS IS SO AWESOME I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT AND WANT TO MAKE BABIES WITH IT" is acceptable as a critique.

So would no OSL be better than bad for finished models?

Either way, I still think it's mighty impressive for 2 days work. Certainly better than what I or a lot of my gaming group, with exception to a few individuals, could do.

 Peregrine wrote:

bleak wrote:
For a 2 day work, I think its mighty impressive.

I suppose. But I would have been more impressed if they'd had the self-awareness to spend an extra day and do it right instead of rushing it out asap. And I even pointed out how doing a rush job on the OSL is why it looks terrible.

Sure its not perfect, but you give way less credit than what the artist who did this deserve.

No, I gave them exactly what they deserve: credit for doing some good work, but honest criticism of low-quality OSL work. I don't award an A for effort.

Still, I guess your critique would be decent if you didn't complain so much.

And I wouldn't complain so much if the piece in question wasn't badly flawed and deserving of complaints. Please don't fall into the trap of assuming that only "WOW THIS IS SO AWESOME I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT AND WANT TO MAKE BABIES WITH IT" is acceptable as a critique.

Would you? I doubt it. And also, a good critique is TheCustomLime's post. It tells people how the OSL is wrong and why its wrong. That is where people, good or bad can learn easily from, instead of babbling on and on about how "Oh people just want to airbrush because airbrush" and thus making it not critiquing but criticising. Your critiquing would be decent and more helpful if you stop the criticising.

 Frozocrone wrote:
So would no OSL be better than bad for finished models?

Yes. If you can't do OSL right then don't do it at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bleak wrote:
And also, a good critique is TheCustomLime's post. It tells people how the OSL is wrong and why its wrong. That is where people, good or bad can learn easily from, instead of babbling on and on about how "Oh people just want to airbrush because airbrush" and thus making it not critiquing but criticising.

I explained why it's wrong.

Your critiquing would be decent and more helpful if you stop the criticising.

IOW "WHY R U SO NEGATIVE!!!!!!1!!!1!!!!!111!!!!!!!!"

Criticism is part of critiquing. I am not here to fluff someone's ego, and I'm not going to pretend that bad work is anything but bad just so I'm not "too negative" for you.

Posts like this always interest me!

Starting at the very top of the issue here - This forum is called Painting and Modeling Showcase. It's a place to showcase completed works and receive feedback from the community. If no feedback was desired, there are a dozen image hosting services that can be used to showcase the model without opening up the floor to others for feedback. The simple fact that model is 'on display' here in these forums is reason enough to assume that the studio not only expected but wanted feedback.

That said, I don't see Peregrine's post as being even remotely out-of-line. He even opened by saying that the studio generally produces reasonable work, but clarified by saying that their otherwise good work is then undone by their poorly implemented OSL.

It's also important to note here that this is a studio's post - they are showcasing a completed diorama as a form of advertising. This is not a single person posting their 'my first model in ten years' introduction thread. I suspect that Peregrine's feedback would be a little different if the poster had been a novice, and not a professional studio showcasing their works as a demonstration of what they are capable of.

Try thinking of it from the perspective of a potential customer. If I were looking for model painting services and stumbled upon this thread I would be looking for an artist that does justice to the models, the theme, and the overall grandeur of 40k. This is not on display here... What this diorama screams to me is "Shop with us, we'll get your models out in two days!"... and the diorama is reflective of this.

In fairness, I am certain there exists a large market for exactly that. Not everyone wants to spend copious amount of time painting their miniatures and would rather spend time playing... If this studio was to advertise from the offset that they produce 'decent' quality with a very fast turnaround, I'd honestly be more impressed.

The power of context I suppose.

In any case, I have no hard feelings toward the studio or Peregrine - I just find it interesting that his completely legitimate criticism has come under fire for no apparent reason.

I prefer to give AW the benefit of the doubt here and assume that they know what they are doing. Regardless of whether or not their work meets my standards or Peregrine's, they don't seem to be suffering any shortage of clients - if their work (as it is being done now) is keeping them in business, more power to them!

 En Excelsis wrote:
I suspect that Peregrine's feedback would be a little different if the poster had been a novice, and not a professional studio showcasing their works as a demonstration of what they are capable of.

This is correct.

 En Excelsis wrote:
Posts like this always interest me!

Starting at the very top of the issue here - This forum is called Painting and Modeling Showcase. It's a place to showcase completed works and receive feedback from the community. If no feedback was desired, there are a dozen image hosting services that can be used to showcase the model without opening up the floor to others for feedback. The simple fact that model is 'on display' here in these forums is reason enough to assume that the studio not only expected but wanted feedback.

That said, I don't see Peregrine's post as being even remotely out-of-line. He even opened by saying that the studio generally produces reasonable work, but clarified by saying that their otherwise good work is then undone by their poorly implemented OSL.

It's also important to note here that this is a studio's post - they are showcasing a completed diorama as a form of advertising. This is not a single person posting their 'my first model in ten years' introduction thread. I suspect that Peregrine's feedback would be a little different if the poster had been a novice, and not a professional studio showcasing their works as a demonstration of what they are capable of.

Try thinking of it from the perspective of a potential customer. If I were looking for model painting services and stumbled upon this thread I would be looking for an artist that does justice to the models, the theme, and the overall grandeur of 40k. This is not on display here... What this diorama screams to me is "Shop with us, we'll get your models out in two days!"... and the diorama is reflective of this.

In fairness, I am certain there exists a large market for exactly that. Not everyone wants to spend copious amount of time painting their miniatures and would rather spend time playing... If this studio was to advertise from the offset that they produce 'decent' quality with a very fast turnaround, I'd honestly be more impressed.

The power of context I suppose.

In any case, I have no hard feelings toward the studio or Peregrine - I just find it interesting that his completely legitimate criticism has come under fire for no apparent reason.

I prefer to give AW the benefit of the doubt here and assume that they know what they are doing. Regardless of whether or not their work meets my standards or Peregrine's, they don't seem to be suffering any shortage of clients - if their work (as it is being done now) is keeping them in business, more power to them!

I have no hard feelings on Peregrine's comment as well, but if it did then I apologise if it sounded that way. IMO his opinion was on point and could have been that way and then the random blabbering just made him sound not as credible. Of course it could just be me reading it that way, but hey, you took my comments as me flaming him, which is not. And besides, you would rather your comment be duly noted than skipped right? Since you have put in so much effort trying to explain it, so why add in all the unnecessary words in the first place?

 En Excelsis wrote:
Posts like this always interest me!

The simple fact that model is 'on display' here in these forums is reason enough to assume that the studio not only expected but wanted feedback.

That's the case - it's always good to see the feedback, even better as it's constructive - thank you all for the fair amount and constructive criticism!

The major fact to keep in mind is that the diorama was created a day after the trailer was featured - so regardless of all the style and artistic approaches, please be aware of that as well.

Thank you for all the words, those of appreciation and critique altogether!

The titans themselves are painted very well, but I also found something off with the execution of the dynamic explosion. The OSL problems have been covered already, but what really detracts from the diorama for me is the smoke. I find myself applauding the attempt, but it just doesn't look right. The columns of smoke wouldn't remain the same diameter and then suddenly turn upwards like that. I went back and studied the scene in the trailer.



I'm surprised the diorama wasn't modeled to reflect this better, at that instant of contact. There isn't yet time for smoke to form from the damage, in fact, chunks of the wraithknight are actually falling to the ground. This would have looked a lot better, in my opinion, and the combinations of red and orange from the explosion with the purples of the Eldar energy would have been great to see visually as a painting skill. As it is currently modeled in the diorama, the titan is charging into the wraithknight but the smoke is heading in the opposite direction to the momentum.

I like it and it looks perfect ignore the nay sayers. When someone does something nice people run to say mean things, it is the way of life. Keep up the good work love your stuff .

Crikey, that's a bit good.