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 Peregrine wrote:
What happened to the idea that the supreme court is meant to be unbiased and independent of political parties?

Just to return faux naivete with faux naivete, I'll say it died when someone got put on it on the basis of being a wise Latina.

Or maybe when Bork came around.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
And threatening and over bearing when they wanted states to adopt the 55 mph speed limit.

Why exactly do we have srates rights when the government is just going to come in and make them adopt policies "or else"....

As for the 55mph speed limit. In reality it didn't actually save any lives overall. It saved lives on certain highways, but not overall. When they dropped the national highway speed limit it was during a gas crisis. Gas prices went up, and the average miles driven per person went down. Once you account for miles driven things don't look so good.

But wait, there's more. When Highways have higher speeds people tend to use them more. When speeds are lowered alternate routes look proportionately better. So, when the speed limit was lowered to 55 many people looked at maps and thought "dang, rural route XXX still has 45 MPH, and it will save me 10 miles, and also has fewer cops. I'll take that instead". So instead of highway deaths, deaths were shifted to other routes, which made the highways look better, but didn't really solve anything.

When Highways have higher speed limits traffic becomes MUCH more predictable. This means road maintenance can be focused more efficiently. This means that the roads are in better overall condition per-road-mile traveled on them. In addition law enforcement can more accurately predict traffic and catch unsafe drivers instead of patrolling all the back roads. In the event there is a crash the victims are noticed quicker and emergency crews are also quicker to respond and save more lives.

The purpose of the speed limit reduction was to reduce petrol consumption, not road traffic collisions.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The purpose of the speed limit reduction was to reduce petrol consumption, not road traffic collisions.

This is very true. However, much of the time it was paraded in front of people as a "safety measure" to make it a less bitter pill to swallow.

The speed limit of 55 was also chosen to optimize mileage on cars of that era. The average car at the time had a 3-speed transmission. 55 MPH set the speed just a few miles per hour over the speed that the third gear in most cars kicked in. This allowed the car to take advantage to the higher gear ratio while limiting air resistance.

If the speed limit were revisited today they might just make it 65 or 70.

Honestly the whole idea of gender segregation is kind of stupid. People of one sex aren't going to suddenly become monsters if exposed to members of the opposite sex, and people who are already monsters aren't going to prey on people in public areas, because frankly there are better places to do so.

Not to mention the problem of non binary sex. A small percentage are born with ambiguous genitalia. Which room are they supposed to use? What if someone has the body of a male with female genitals? How is that different compared to a female to male transgender person on hormone therapy?

My general rule of thumb is that if it discriminates against a genetically abnormal sex, it discriminates against trangendered/transexual people.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Honestly the whole idea of gender segregation is kind of stupid. People of one sex aren't going to suddenly become monsters if exposed to members of the opposite sex, and people who are already monsters aren't going to prey on people in public areas, because frankly there are better places to do so.

Not to mention the problem of non binary sex. A small percentage are born with ambiguous genitalia. Which room are they supposed to use? What if someone has the body of a male with female genitals? How is that different compared to a female to male transgender person on hormone therapy?

My general rule of thumb is that if it discriminates against a genetically abnormal sex, it discriminates against trangendered/transexual people.

As soon as your wife is comfortable taking a group shower with a bunch of dudes get back to me. Otherwise you kind of missed the point.

Are group showers commonly found in public lavatories in the USA?

I do find it a bit odd that it is "transphobic" to want to be segregated from a trans person due to their physical characteristics, but women and men almost demand (under penalty of law) to be segregated from each other and that's totally acceptable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Are group showers commonly found in public lavatories in the USA?

Sometimes, yes.

As I stated earlier I'm more tolerant of trans bathroom use. But the whole trans issue is totally linked to communal showers and changing rooms. There are now laws on the book, and decrees by the Justice Department and the President that demand trans inclusion in communal shower areas in all schools. This also extends to some private businesses such as gyms.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Honestly the whole idea of gender segregation is kind of stupid. People of one sex aren't going to suddenly become monsters if exposed to members of the opposite sex, and people who are already monsters aren't going to prey on people in public areas, because frankly there are better places to do so.

And you polled women and girls on this issue when?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Are group showers commonly found in public lavatories in the USA?

They are very common in locker rooms/changing rooms at places like gyms/pools/beaches and such.

 Frazzled wrote:

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Honestly the whole idea of gender segregation is kind of stupid. People of one sex aren't going to suddenly become monsters if exposed to members of the opposite sex, and people who are already monsters aren't going to prey on people in public areas, because frankly there are better places to do so.

And you polled women and girls on this issue when?

Why would I need to do that? Men and women are raped at about the same rate. If I, a male, am okay with it, I fail to see how a woman wouldn't be.

I also find it disturbing on how some people are speaking for their wives/women in general. If a person who is actually female posts, that's one thing, just don't speak for them.

Also, I have spoken to many of my female friends about it, and they seem fine with it, but it wasn't a random sample so it wasn't an accurate poll. Also, I shouldn't really speak for them.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Honestly the whole idea of gender segregation is kind of stupid. People of one sex aren't going to suddenly become monsters if exposed to members of the opposite sex, and people who are already monsters aren't going to prey on people in public areas, because frankly there are better places to do so.

And you polled women and girls on this issue when?

Why would I need to do that? Men and women are raped at about the same rate. If I, a male, am okay with it, I fail to see how a woman wouldn't be.

1. Thats a staggeringly bs statement. You'll need about 15 studies to support that as all the ones I have seen show the rate about 10 to 1.
2. This is not about rape. You're making a statement that segregation is stupid, but you seem to ignore the majority of the world population (females) and their views on the matter. Lets be real, no one is concerned if a Male T is in the men's locker room.

This is one reason many feminists are on the other side of this issue. The patriarchy (on both sides) is almost staggering.

It really would just make a world of difference if the US overall started to dial down the Nudity=Sex thing. OR just scrap the whole idea of Male/Female bathrooms and just have one large bathroom with stalls. In the Grand Scheme of things, it really doesn't to the best of your Knowledge you could have been using the Bathroom with a Transgender Person your entire life.

Personally, I see it as a Non issue .Outside of Having Bathroom bouncers at every restroom in America, asking people to drop trou to inspect their parts, which is absolutely ridiculous, or taking a peek yourself, there is no way to determine with 100% accuracy the gender of every single person that goes into any given bathroom. Documents can, and probably will be, forged if it ever gets to the point were people have to show documentation to enter the bathroom of their Gender.

Does it mean there's a Chance some Creep might try to use it to take advantage of someone in the bathroom? There was little stopping them before from doing it if they really wanted to, and they could do it just about anywhere. Why not put more effort into punishing the perverts and rapists instead of the people trying to expel waste.

We back to different bathrooms or gender perception/recognition/identity?

 cuda1179 wrote:


When it comes to communal changing rooms and showers.....here is where I have a problem. Unless you have had the surgery to have the genitals of your preferred gender stay the heck out.

Precisely my thought/belief.

If you have a penis...keep your penis out of the female changing/locker rooms.

If you have a vagina...keep your vagina out of the male changing/locker rooms.

What about the rights of the majority of kids (and parents) that do NOT want to be see (or even possibly exposed to) genitalia of the opposite sex?

I certainly do not want some swinging dick coming into my 12 year old daughters locker room.

We do talk about sex, we do talk about boys (which she still thinks of as yucky, lol) and right now....at her behavioral development...I certainly do not want to make her any more uncomfortable with the opposite sex than she already is.

The same can be said for her twin brother, actually. He's probably even a little more embarassed about things.

But hey....my rights and my kids' rights don't count.....because...you know....feelings.

problem solved

 Jihadin wrote:


problem solved

Er...no. Thats not a locker room and showers. Many, if not most public schools have communal locker rooms and showers.


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 Jihadin wrote:
We back to different bathrooms or gender perception/recognition/identity?

Locker rooms and the input of da wimminz on the topic.

What rights do you claim are being violated, because right now all you have said is that it makes you, and your children, uncomfortable. Meanwhile, the right to equal protection under the law would be violated by preventing transgender people from using facilities of their sex.

Both the CDC report and the Federal Department of justice's report have some errors in methodology. However, the DoJ's report does not classify female on male sexual assault, such as being forced to penetrate, as rape. Also, their report is based on reported crimes, and the incidence of men reporting being raped is ridiculously low due to societal expectations.

"No one is concerned if there is a male T in the men's locker room"

Why should anyone be concerned if there is a female T in the women's locker room? By your logic, males are more likely to rape, including other men. Doesn't the F2M T present a greater threat? Or is it just that you correlate male genitalia with threat?

Maybe we can divert the bathroom discussion here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/688187.page instead of here?

 TheMeanDM wrote:

I certainly do not want some swinging dick coming into my 12 year old daughters locker room.

Ah yes, this tired argument. I know when I use the bathroom, I strip fully nude at the door and helicopter my way to the urinal before using the bathroom. /sarcasm

The only time you will see another persons genitals in a bathroom is when you are looking or they just do not understand bathroom etiquette. Buuuuut, that is not going to stop you from bringing this argument up again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:

I certainly do not want some swinging dick coming into my 12 year old daughters locker room.

Ah yes, this tired argument. I know when I use the bathroom, I strip fully nude at the door and helicopter my way to the urinal before using the bathroom. /sarcasm

The only time you will see another persons genitals in a bathroom is when you are looking or they just do not understand bathroom etiquette. Buuuuut, that is not going to stop you from bringing this argument up again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

I love how genitals can be seen as inherently dangerous. No one looks at a gun at a range and thinks." Wow, this person just might shoot me! They're holding a gun! I am not holding a gun, and they are! This makes me uncomfortable!"

 Ouze wrote:
Maybe we can divert the bathroom discussion here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/688187.page instead of here?

Agreed.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:

I certainly do not want some swinging dick coming into my 12 year old daughters locker room.

Ah yes, this tired argument. I know when I use the bathroom, I strip fully nude at the door and helicopter my way to the urinal before using the bathroom. /sarcasm

The only time you will see another persons genitals in a bathroom is when you are looking or they just do not understand bathroom etiquette. Buuuuut, that is not going to stop you from bringing this argument up again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

He said Locker Room. Not Bathroom.

There is a difference, whether you want to admit it or not.

Indeed...I did say LOCKER room.

For those who din't know what that is, or who think that there is really any privacy...allow me to show you.

Locker rooms are also a part of/attached to the shower area where girls or boys will shower after athletic activity (PE, sports, etc).

If they can do it in Star Trooper then we can make it happen


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Indeed...I did say LOCKER room.

For those who din't know what that is, or who think that there is really any privacy...allow me to show you.

Locker rooms are also a part of/attached to the shower area where girls or boys will shower after athletic activity (PE, sports, etc).

Spoiler:

That's way to sterile/clean/new/fresh paint

 Jihadin wrote:
If they can do it in Star Trooper then we can make it happen


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Indeed...I did say LOCKER room.

For those who din't know what that is, or who think that there is really any privacy...allow me to show you.

Locker rooms are also a part of/attached to the shower area where girls or boys will shower after athletic activity (PE, sports, etc).

Spoiler:

That's way to sterile/clean/new/fresh paint

I think it was a pretty ironic political statement, The military is traditionally conservative, and in the future, they still are, but showering together isn't seen as a big deal.

I suggest all further lavatory discrimination law discussions be taken to the thread on lavatory discrimination law here...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688187.page

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I suggest all further lavatory discrimination law discussions be taken to the thread on lavatory discrimination law here...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/688187.page

Damn. I thought Motty locked that one. Or maybe he will if it comes current again

 CptJake wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:

I certainly do not want some swinging dick coming into my 12 year old daughters locker room.

Ah yes, this tired argument. I know when I use the bathroom, I strip fully nude at the door and helicopter my way to the urinal before using the bathroom. /sarcasm

The only time you will see another persons genitals in a bathroom is when you are looking or they just do not understand bathroom etiquette. Buuuuut, that is not going to stop you from bringing this argument up again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

He said Locker Room. Not Bathroom.

There is a difference, whether you want to admit it or not.

Oh my apologies. Let me revise.

I know when I enter a locker room, I strip down naked and helicopter my way to the locker.

The only time you are going to see another persons genitals in the locker room is if you are looking or they just do not understand locker room etiquette.

I used locker rooms to get dressed my whole way through school. Saw 0 genitals. Maybe I am an outlier though. It might just be that I was never trying to see them though.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:

I certainly do not want some swinging dick coming into my 12 year old daughters locker room.

Ah yes, this tired argument. I know when I use the bathroom, I strip fully nude at the door and helicopter my way to the urinal before using the bathroom. /sarcasm

The only time you will see another persons genitals in a bathroom is when you are looking or they just do not understand bathroom etiquette. Buuuuut, that is not going to stop you from bringing this argument up again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

He said Locker Room. Not Bathroom.

There is a difference, whether you want to admit it or not.

Oh my apologies. Let me revise.

I know when I enter a locker room, I strip down naked and helicopter my way to the locker.

The only time you are going to see another persons genitals in the locker room is if you are looking or they just do not understand locker room etiquette.

I used locker rooms to get dressed my whole way through school. Saw 0 genitals. Maybe I am an outlier though. It might just be that I was never trying to see them though.

Military was an experience then after awhile you no longer care. I don't care if your male and like males. I am taking a long shower so I can feel human again (Iraq/Afghanistan) All I care....DO. YOUR. DAMN. JOB.

Kill though is right. Lets move pass this