Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I was down at a local shop and I was taking a look around and found the goblin town set for 50% off at $75 Canadian!
Seemed like an excellent deal but I held off wanted some opinions.

I have the original mines of moria set models and the mini rule book but this goblin town set has me interested. For the models alone I think it's probably worth it but how are the rules?

Should I just use the regular lord of the rings rules? Need a little rundown if that's not too much trouble thanks everyone!

honestly its a pretty good set, and if you dont like it, its easy to trade off. the rulebook is nice and has new options, but no points for any of the models included. (at least mine didnt) the terrain is nice. the models alone make it worthwhile. I have a couple copies and love it.

I have been tempted to get a set - For 50% off I would go for it

The Hobbit rules aren't vastly different from the lotr rules, there are just some additions mostly.
The set has a nice little bunch of scenarios one can easily play on one day to get the hang of the rules again. Not all of them are really balanced, but they are fun nevertheless.
The models and terrain are of high quality (the goblins are much better than the Moria-ones', though their style is not for everyone). Most of the models are otherwise available in inferior finecast and for a much higher cost only.
Go for it

 chiefbigredman wrote:
So I was down at a local shop and I was taking a look around and found the goblin town set for 50% off at $75 Canadian!
Seemed like an excellent deal but I held off wanted some opinions.

I have the original mines of moria set models and the mini rule book but this goblin town set has me interested. For the models alone I think it's probably worth it but how are the rules?

Should I just use the regular lord of the rings rules? Need a little rundown if that's not too much trouble thanks everyone!

I use the LotR blue book rules. My regular opponent uses the Hobbit rules. We don't really have problems between the two as its more of less exactly the same.

Hobbit rules have a few minor tweaks and fixes (they did come out 7 years after the blue LOTR rules). It's a better ruleset than the blue book in my opinion.

At 50% off the box is a great buy - tons of cool models and terrain. Additionally if you start playing SBG points match games, the goblin town army is like 400 points just in the main box and is a great start.

 thekingofkings wrote:
the rulebook is nice and has new options, but no points for any of the models included. (at least mine didnt)...

However that's easily fixed by downloading this PDF from Games Workshop.

Its a great set for the price, really. If you don't dislike the Goblin aesthetic you get some really cool, interesting-to-play heroes, and a ton of regular Goblins. The terrain is a great piece that combines well with duplicate sets.

The only downside is the limited value for the "Good" player, with only a couple models having future value if you build an Erebor list. I think this MAY change in the future with some of the rumored upcoming releases once the game "returns', which would be even better.

 judgedoug wrote:
Hobbit rules have a few minor tweaks and fixes (they did come out 7 years after the blue LOTR rules). It's a better ruleset than the blue book in my opinion.

I found the rules for specific weapons (swords, maces) in the new Hobbit ruleset not well done.

1) They add a roll in a game that had as a strong point its simplicity
2) The weapons of older models were not designed taking in account of this - all the melee isengarder have pikes or swords
3) They swing between no-brainer or pointless in base of the weapon/model situation.

On the flipsides, things like the monster rules maybe were needed. Still not convinced...

 Ghaz wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:
the rulebook is nice and has new options, but no points for any of the models included. (at least mine didnt)...

However that's easily fixed by downloading this PDF from Games Workshop.

I went and bought the big book for my points need, loved it

The main game boxset: Ok if you are into that.
I would buy multiple copies of the terrain pack or not at all.
There is a lot of mileage you can get from the terrain, and not just for The Hobbit games.

Thanks guys! Ya I really like the terrain that comes with it and for 75 bucks I don't think I can really go wrong!

I will probably just stick with the blue rulebook for LOTR but more models to paint is always nice!

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Thanks guys! Ya I really like the terrain that comes with it and for 75 bucks I don't think I can really go wrong!

I will probably just stick with the blue rulebook for LOTR but more models to paint is always nice!

You can still "steal" what is good in the new rules. As an example, I think a cavalry for Rivendell was needed, so I appreciate the new Knights. I ignore the weapon rules, but people say that the new monster rules make them more usable. If you play with friends, keep what works.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Thanks guys! Ya I really like the terrain that comes with it and for 75 bucks I don't think I can really go wrong!

I will probably just stick with the blue rulebook for LOTR but more models to paint is always nice!

You can still "steal" what is good in the new rules. As an example, I think a cavalry for Rivendell was needed, so I appreciate the new Knights. I ignore the weapon rules, but people say that the new monster rules make them more usable. If you play with friends, keep what works.

Good tips! I usually play at home so we house rule things for other games so we can definitely do that thanks!

If that's the case, I'd say

Take (from the Hobbit book):
- Monster rules (makes them a lot more dangerous and worthwhile)
- Heroic Actions and Magic (there are more options in the Hobbit book)
- Scenarios/Deployment (bit more variety in game types, best thing to do is pick from both books though!)
- New units/army lists (fortunately most of these are available in PDF form from GW, so no need to buy the bigger book)

Leave:
- Force Building rules (the old ones are less restrictive, and I find the new ones require far more heroes than I used to take)
- Hand Weapon rules (much simpler under the old rules, the new stuff just adds another unnecessary layer in resolving combats. Much simpler to treat anything used in one hand as the same)
- Changes to Ranged Weapons (there's a negative penalty for shooting and moving now, which I feel is unnecessary when you already have a movement penalty if you want to shoot).

That's my take on it, I know others will advocate a different way of doing it.

The box is a good value at full price, but for half it's incredible! 36 Goblins (2 boxes' worth) would cost us $80 alone.

The rest of the stuff is more difficult to price out since the only other versions of the characters are either in another set or in "Fine"cast but a full Company along with Bilbo and Gandalf will set you back $250. Even if you value them at half that it's still almost double what you're paying just for the Good side models.The Company, with the possible exception of one or two of them, are among the nicest single-piece plastics I've seen. Thorin and Dwalin in particular are awesome sculpts.

 Paradigm wrote:
If that's the case, I'd say

Take (from the Hobbit book):
- Monster rules (makes them a lot more dangerous and worthwhile)
- Heroic Actions and Magic (there are more options in the Hobbit book)
- Scenarios/Deployment (bit more variety in game types, best thing to do is pick from both books though!)
- New units/army lists (fortunately most of these are available in PDF form from GW, so no need to buy the bigger book)

Leave:
- Force Building rules (the old ones are less restrictive, and I find the new ones require far more heroes than I used to take)
- Hand Weapon rules (much simpler under the old rules, the new stuff just adds another unnecessary layer in resolving combats. Much simpler to treat anything used in one hand as the same)
- Changes to Ranged Weapons (there's a negative penalty for shooting and moving now, which I feel is unnecessary when you already have a movement penalty if you want to shoot).

That's my take on it, I know others will advocate a different way of doing it.

Paradigms advice here is really good. the new hand weapon rules are really nice for small fights, it adds something for skirmishes. otherwise we pretty much do what he said ourselves. Big fights we go mostly lotr.

I only ever learned to play with the newer rules, so it never felt cumbersome, but I do feel they're too binary. Why on Earth wouldn't a Goblin always Feint, for example? They'll NEVER win on fight-value, so it feels like a sneaky buff to them.

Anyway, I do think the Monster rules are perfect, and can't imagine them not being part of the game. Without some ability to overcome numbers, they are at the mercy of weight-of-dice in a way which would just make them worthless.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I only ever learned to play with the newer rules, so it never felt cumbersome, but I do feel they're too binary. Why on Earth wouldn't a Goblin always Feint, for example? They'll NEVER win on fight-value, so it feels like a sneaky buff to them.

Anyway, I do think the Monster rules are perfect, and can't imagine them not being part of the game. Without some ability to overcome numbers, they are at the mercy of weight-of-dice in a way which would just make them worthless.

I agree with both. BTW, your example is among the best on why the weapon rules are terrible. This, ignoring the fact that they go against the simple and elegant basic design of the game, adding a new roll. Better just ignore them.

Concerning Warbands, remember that the rules came out before The Hobbit. You can find it in the army books (Mordor, Fallen Realms, Free People etc). It castigates some build for Rivendell and perhaps Moria, but overall IMHO is an improvement and keeps the flavour if you want to mix 2 or more evil armies. Moreover, it blocks some troop spam that coul be annoying and keeps the highest numbers relatively low - what we want from a skirmish, right?

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

Leave:
- Force Building rules (the old ones are less restrictive, and I find the new ones require far more heroes than I used to take)
- Hand Weapon rules (much simpler under the old rules, the new stuff just adds another unnecessary layer in resolving combats. Much simpler to treat anything used in one hand as the same)
- Changes to Ranged Weapons (there's a negative penalty for shooting and moving now, which I feel is unnecessary when you already have a movement penalty if you want to shoot).

That's my take on it, I know others will advocate a different way of doing it.

Paradigms advice here is really good. the new hand weapon rules are really nice for small fights, it adds something for skirmishes. otherwise we pretty much do what he said ourselves. Big fights we go mostly lotr.

The hand weapon rules are great for low model count games - many of the published scenarios, etc, or for 300-400 points or less. I agree, just ignore them for larger games.
However, the move/shoot penalty is welcome as shooting is undercosted in the blue book era, especially Thrown weapons.

Ironically they value thrown-weapons a ton (IE too much?) later on. :-p Grim-Hammers are soooo expensive solely because they cost in those thrown weapons. :-p

So when people ditch special weapons for larger games, I assume they don't mean omitting "two-handed" weapons, shields, etc.... Just piercing strike, feint, and bash?

Feint seems like the only derp one that is either auto-use, or never use.

Yeah, it's only Hand Weapons that I standardise (like it used to be). Spears, Pikes, 2-handers stay the same, as do any weapons with unique rules like Forlong's halberd ect.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So when people ditch special weapons for larger games, I assume they don't mean omitting "two-handed" weapons, shields, etc.... Just piercing strike, feint, and bash?

Yeah, just the single-hand-weapon extraspecial rules.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
So I was down at a local shop and I was taking a look around and found the goblin town set for 50% off at $75 Canadian!

I've already got a copy I bought back when it first came out, but I'd probably buy another at that price. The figures are all great, the terrain is very nice and the linked scenarios you can play with the contents are a lot of fun.

The set is a little limited for long term use, though. The "Misty Mountain Goblin" list is pretty much limited to what's in the box. You could add more generic goblins and more Goblin Captains, but that's it. Of course you can use them as part of any "Evil" list as long as you follow the warband rules.

Likewise for putting together Dwarf points-limit lists, only about 3 of the Dwarfs from the box are really useful. The others are at best scenario characters.

For the models alone I think it's probably worth it but how are the rules?

The rules are good, although not a must have if you've got the old "One Ring" rulebook, or the Mines of Moria mini rulebook. As others have said the main difference IMO is the addition of new Monster rules (which seem to be generally accepted as good) and the new weapon rules (which people seem to be split on). Unless of course the you get involved in organized or tournament play, where you would probably need the most recent version of the rules.

 mdauben wrote:

The set is a little limited for long term use, though. The "Misty Mountain Goblin" list is pretty much limited to what's in the box. You could add more generic goblins and more Goblin Captains, but that's it. Of course you can use them as part of any "Evil" list as long as you follow the warband rules.

And if that's not useful to you, the Goblins are generic enough that with various different paintjobs they can very easy function as goblins/orcs/mutants/ghouls/lesser demons in a huge number of Fantasy settings. AoS, KoW, Frostgrave, Necromunda, they're very multi-purpose minis, and if you need a horde of generic evil goons, they paint up real fast!

 Paradigm wrote:


And if that's not useful to you, the Goblins are generic enough that with various different paintjobs they can very easy function as goblins/orcs/mutants/ghouls/lesser demons in a huge number of Fantasy settings. AoS, KoW, Frostgrave, Necromunda, they're very multi-purpose minis, and if you need a horde of generic evil goons, they paint up real fast!

My EfGT goblins have been Skaven slaves, post-apoc mutants and are standing in for Ghar in Gates of Atares at the moment. Whatever you think of the design, the actual sculpts are very, very good.

On the rules changes, Paradigm has it pretty much spot on, although I don't mind the warband rules. I feel they're thematic and in keeping with the spirit of the game, although we played casually so never really encountered the kind of troop-spam netlists that they were designed to counter. I'm happy with or without them.

Monsters had become very gameable in the later years of the game - the new special attacks are most welcome.

 Paradigm wrote:

 mdauben wrote:

The set is a little limited for long term use, though. The "Misty Mountain Goblin" list is pretty much limited to what's in the box. You could add more generic goblins and more Goblin Captains, but that's it. Of course you can use them as part of any "Evil" list as long as you follow the warband rules.

And if that's not useful to you, the Goblins are generic enough that with various different paintjobs they can very easy function as goblins/orcs/mutants/ghouls/lesser demons in a huge number of Fantasy settings. AoS, KoW, Frostgrave, Necromunda, they're very multi-purpose minis, and if you need a horde of generic evil goons, they paint up real fast!

They look a lot like some flavor of Nurgle model if you squint, so yeah... there is definite proxy potential in these guys.

It also helps that they are super fun, and play thematically. My wife, on the rare occasion she plays an evil list, almost always takes a Scribe, a Captain, and a mountain of Goblins. The "Chittering Horde" rule is so flavorful, and lets them play more like a "horde army" than nearly any miniatures game I have ever played. :-)

I think that overall, almost every piece in the game works if you use the appropriate rule to taste.

Still I am not convinced of the Balrog. And Is a shame, I bought 12 Gundabad Blackshields and 12 metal goblins, go to plastic, drums, characters and then Balrog would be tempting...

I got myself a copy, I think it's all great except for the goblin warriors - Not the sculpts, but the concepts, not a fan.

So I have put them up on eBay and will just use Moria goblins to play the scenarios

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
I think that overall, almost every piece in the game works if you use the appropriate rule to taste.

Still I am not convinced of the Balrog. And Is a shame, I bought 12 Gundabad Blackshields and 12 metal goblins, go to plastic, drums, characters and then Balrog would be tempting...

The Balrog, like Smaug and Sauron, should be viewed as scenario characters. In a common battle they won't be useful or just super annoying for your opponent. But for scenario-play they are great.