feeder wrote:
I've always thought that BB was set in "an" Old World (as opposed to "the" Old World).

The existence of Cabalvision and Orca-Cola and the like in BB lore and absent from WFB lore?

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hah, I can't believe just how heated this thread got for a while.

Galadrin wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hah, I can't believe just how heated this thread got for a while.

I was surprised how hurt people got over this!

Gaz Taylor wrote:
So it's very similar but instead of war they play Blood Bowl.

Galadrin wrote:

Gaz Taylor wrote:
So it's very similar but instead of war they play Blood Bowl.

I find that to be such a weird idea... How is it justified? In 3rd Edition, Blood Bowl is set in the Warhammer universe and Blood Bowl has not "replaced" warfare between the different factions—in fact it is entirely unrelated. The teams in the circuit are simply professional competitors that make their livelihood playing Blood Bowl, despite the wars going on around them (ok it is true, some teams just play the game for the love of the carnage, er I mean sport!). They are travelling entertainers, basically, and do not "represent" one faction or another. I would think a setting where Blood Bowl replaces war would make zero sense to me.

Sherrypie wrote:
It is a parody set in an alternate continuity of the Old World timeline, which is very different than the Warhammer one. Warhammer universe, yes, but an alternative version.

Back of the Blood Bowl box: wrote:“A mighty roar fills the stadium as the players take to the field! The two teams face each other: brutal, menacing Orcs versus hardened Human warriors. The starting whistle blows and the football is kicked off… The game of BLOOD BOWL has begun!

Across the length and breadth of the Warhammer World teams of armoured warriors battle to the death in great arenas. The Dwarfs in their mountain halls, Goblins in sewers, all these and more field Blood Bowl teams that play for the glory and honour of their race. Massive crowds cheer on their favorite teams and Star Players rise to fame and glory as the meanest, toughest players in the world.”

Page 39, “The Old World” wrote:“The Old World. Blood Bowl is played on a mammoth continent that is known to its inhabitants as the Old World. The Old World is a wild and dangerous place—let’s face it, it has to be if people are going to play Blood Bowl for fun! The land is bounded by the Worlds Edge Mountains to the east and by the Great Western Ocean to the west. The northern coast lies against the Sea of Claws, on the other side of which is Norsca, the home of fierce sea-fighting warriors and raiders. The southern coast lies against the Southern Sea which divides the Old World from the mysterious Southlands and the realms of Araby.

In the Old World life is often short and death sudden and unexpected. Considering the similarities between everyday life and Blood Bowl, then, it is hardly surprising that the game has proved so hugely and enduringly popular. Brought up amidst constant wars, dark forests full of horrible monsters, and the ever present reality of plague and other incurable diseases, the people of the Old World are natural Blood Bowl players, willing to risk all to win fabulous riches or fame in a world where their future is never certain.

The Old World is home to Men, Dwarfs, Elves and Halflings. These civilized folk are numerous and powerful, and their cities are large and well fortified. And they need to be, for the Old World is also home to many of the evil creatures that are their enemies: Orcs, Goblins, and the followers of Chaos in their various guises. The high mountains and deep forests are infested with many monsters, and the northern regions are so wild and dangerous they are known as the Troll Country. Away to the east lie the lands of evil and demented Chaos Dwarfs, while beyond the Troll Country lie the Northern Wastes, from where the armies of Chaos advance southwards to threaten the Old World.

The Old World also lies within striking distance of the raiding fleets of the Dark Elves of Naggaroth, who sweep through the Seas of Chaos and attack the northern coasts of the Old World, and the Undead fleets from the Land of the Dead which raid the southern and western coasts.

Considering the vast number of races that hate each other’s guts, it is hardly surprising that war between the different races is a frequent state of affairs in the Old World, while rebellions and uprisings can overturn nations and plunge them into civil war. Ancient feuds and bitter hatreds are common and run very deep. None the less, when two Blood Bowl teams arrive at a city to play a match a special truce is declared which lasts until after the match is over. This means that, no matter what the race of the team or its supporters, and barring all-out warfare, nothing will interfere with the playing of the all important game of Blood Bowl!”

Page 46, Dark Elf Blood Bowl Teams (excerpt) wrote:“Dark Elf Blood Bowl Teams. Over five thousand years ago, the High Elf kingdoms underwent a costly civil war brought about by a group of renegades known as the Dark Elves. Greedy for worldly power, the Dark Elves forsook their traditional deities to worship the darker gods of evil magic The war lasted seven centuries and resulted in the banishment of the Dark Elves from the Elf kingdoms. Embittered by their enforced exile, the Dark Elves became even more decadent and are now counted amongst the most useful of all servants of Chaos, still concentrating their considerable and malevolent power against their kin above all others.”

Death Zone, Introduction wrote:“Howdy there sports fans! Jim Johnson here, welcoming you to Death Zone, the first supplement for Blood Bowl, the game of fantasy football. And, boy, are you guys and gals in for a treat! Isn’t that right, Bob?

It sure is Jim. Because not only does Death Zone include a host of exciting new teams and Star Players for you to use, but it also includes a deck of over 100 Special Play cards that allow you to play all kinds of sneaky and underhand tricks on your opponent!

And that’s not all, Bob, because Death Zone also includes all the rules and information you need to set up your very own Blood Bowl League, just like the one run in the Warhammer Old World!

Wow, Jim. I bet tha fans can hardly wait for us to tell them about all this exciting stuff. When do we start?

Why, right now, Bob, right now…”

Galadrin wrote:

Sherrypie wrote:
It is a parody set in an alternate continuity of the Old World timeline, which is very different than the Warhammer one. Warhammer universe, yes, but an alternative version.

Well, that is based on conjecture. The rulebook clearly states that it is set in the Old World. It sounds like GW changed their mind later about this, however?

Anyway, I don't personally feel that any fantasy must (or even can) make perfect sense. The idea that wars are never fought, however, seems very contradictory to the setting described in the Blood Bowl rulebook.

Gaz Taylor wrote:
I think Jervis regrets ever saying it was in the Old World. Yes at some point in the past, GW said it was set in the Old World aka Warhammer. Now they have been saying it's is in it's own universe. New game will clear this up

But it is a parody of the Warhammer World and our world (Orcidas, McMurty's, Orcland Raiders) and the facts aren't serious either

 TheWaspinator wrote:
We have author intent on record saying that you are wrong. It's not a retcon, you just don't understand the concept of alternate continuity.

Galadrin wrote:
It would hardly be the Warhammer World without war, don't you think?

I feel like I am arguing that the Earth is round here!

So what you are saying is that Blood Bowl was absolutely set in the Old World, and over a decade after publishing the last boxed edition, Jervis said in passing at a GenCon panel discussion that he felt this was the wrong decision and that it should be otherwise?

Nowhere does it say or even imply this in the rulebook. In fact it says the exact opposite.

Anyway, you do have Jervis himself admitting that the game was originally part of the Warhammer world in 3rd Edition

Well, that is not what the text says. The rulebook clearly states that it is set in the Old World. It sounds like GW changed their mind later about this, however?

Anyway, I don't personally feel that any fantasy must (or even can) make perfect sense. The idea that wars are never fought, however, seems very contradictory to the setting described in the Blood Bowl rulebook.

Edit: I realised that perhaps not everyone actually owns the rulebook, so I've quoted some relevant passages below (there are a lot more, but these seemed to address many of the questions in this thread). Note, this is not saying that the Blood Bowl setting didn't change after 1994 to become it's own thing. Emphasis added:

*snip*

methebest wrote:What does it say in the first and second edition rule books?

chaos0xomega wrote:

Galadrin wrote:
It would hardly be the Warhammer World without war, don't you think?

Exactly, thats why its an alternate dimension.

chaos0xomega wrote:FFS, STOP BEING OBTUSE. WE JUST QUOTED YOU THE GODDAMNED CREATOR OF THE GAME EXPLAINING HOW IT IS AN ALTERNATE TIMELINE.

methebest wrote:
What does it say in the first and second edition rule books?

 notprop wrote:
Of course 3rd Edition was surpassed by two further (and soon to be another) editions.

I'm not sure why you are sticking to the relevance of a 3rd edition book that is equally outdated?

Anyone with a modicum of common sense would see the fluff in 3rd Edition as an aberration of what cam before and after (and from the writers mouth) rather than pinning his hat to it. No?

Galadrin wrote:

 TheWaspinator wrote:
I still think you're reading that Jervis comment waaaay wrong. It's saying that the Blood Bowl aesthetics and world got more similar to the main Warhammer world during BB 3rd edition and that that was a mistake, not that they were ever meant to be the exact same world.

Blood Bowl is a parody spinoff. It's about as much in continuity with WFB as Hostess Fruit Pie Spiderman is with normal Marvel comics. It's pretty obvious when you consider that BB claims that all war was replaced with football while WFB continued to have giant apocalyptic wars.

Yes, Blood Bowl is a parody of American football. That is very clear in the NAF name (Nuffle Amorical Footbal) and Nuffle (NFL). Yes, the Blood Bowl 3rd Edition rulebook specifically states that Blood Bowl is set in the Warhammer Old World. I can see why these two things seem contradictory: if the Old World is supposed to be a fantasy setting, how could they "break the fourth wall" and make humerous references to the real world? Doesn't that make the Old World a joke? Well, yes it does. A good part of the Old World is meant to be a partly tongue-in-cheek reference to a very British and very humorous interpretation of the real world and its history. In the 90's, GW had a goofy sense of humour baked right into the setting. Warhammer was NOT a grimdark, serious setting, but a funny and vibrant setting, where Karl Franz was an uplifting statesman (compare to KF in 3rd Edition) and Teensy-Weensy's (ahem, "Tichi-Huichi's") Raiders were the scourge of the battlefield. It was the era before the square-jawed, "gorilla" style Orcs (rather, it was a time when Orcs were sculpted by Kev Adams and each one had a big, stupid grin). But notice, you were not bothered by the famous Estalian discoverer of the New World, "Marco Colombo," or the adventures of Lost Losterikson. Why? Are not these clear parodies? To say anything other that they are would be to obviously "miss" the joke.

So you are absolutely correct. I am implying that the Warhammer World was not a "serious" setting. I am also saying that the 3rd Edition Blood Bowl rulebook is 100% crystal clear, dried ink on paper, that 3rd Edition Blood Bowl is set in the Warhammer world. Not a parody of it (since the whole thing is already a parody from the start) and not an "alternate dimension." My point is that Blood Bowl parodies American Football. It does NOT parody the Warhammer universe. Those kind of jokes are riven throughout the setting. They are part of the game, just like Squig Hoppers, the Skaven Doomwheel, Pavane of Slaanesh and the Halfling Hot Pot.

Later on, it seems about 13 years later (2005), GW changed their mind on this. I hadn't heard about this, since it is not mentioned in any Blood Bowl rulebook or supplement, but it is not surprising. GW had been changing for years, ever since about 2000, and the Warhammer setting was becoming "grimdark" (in an attempt to recapture what it had been in the 80's, but with a much more clear and defined form). My argument is only that 3rd Edition was much less serious (and, in my personal opinion, much more fun because of it).

Edit: By the way, Blood Bowl 3rd Edition does NOT claim that "war was replaced by football." Read the chapter on the Old World and the Origins of Blood Bowl again and you can see that it directly refutes such a notion.

Edit 2: By the way, why is Blood Bowl imagined to be so "unrealistic"? Surely the Romans began the practice of importing "exotic" foreign athletes from distant lands to compete in all manner of bloodsports in the colliseum (not just gladiator battles, but wrestling, racing, team-based naval skirmishes and so on). Check out the violent sport of Harpastum, for example. Blood Bowl is much more clearly a reference to Medieval football, however—just check out the description. It was a sport "involving an unlimited number of players on opposing teams, who would clash in a heaving mass of people struggling to drag an inflated pig's bladder by any means possible to markers at each end of a town. By some accounts, in some such events any means could be used to move the ball towards the goal, as long as it did not lead to manslaughter or murder" (Wiki). That means you could maim, beat, stomp and dogpile whoever you wanted to get at victory. That was a real sport. Are you suggesting that if medieval Britain had that, the Old World wouldn't (or would have something much tamer)?

Galadrin wrote:
That's an ad for the 1st edition—my comment was about 3rd.

If your Blood Bowl universe is different from the Warhammer world, or is an alternate take on it, then that's fine! It's your game, play it as you see fit. There is certainly room to interpret it how you would like.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

Galadrin wrote:
That's an ad for the 1st edition—my comment was about 3rd.

If your Blood Bowl universe is different from the Warhammer world, or is an alternate take on it, then that's fine! It's your game, play it as you see fit. There is certainly room to interpret it how you would like.

I think what you meant to say was "I'm wrong". You are literally the only person arguing that it was set in the traditional Warhammer world. If YOUR Blood Bowl universe is different from everyone elses, then more power to you. Facts would confirm otherwise however.

 TheWaspinator wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

Galadrin wrote:
That's an ad for the 1st edition—my comment was about 3rd.

If your Blood Bowl universe is different from the Warhammer world, or is an alternate take on it, then that's fine! It's your game, play it as you see fit. There is certainly room to interpret it how you would like.

I think what you meant to say was "I'm wrong". You are literally the only person arguing that it was set in the traditional Warhammer world. If YOUR Blood Bowl universe is different from everyone elses, then more power to you. Facts would confirm otherwise however.

He seems to have latched onto some single lines in Blood Bowl that say "the Warhammer world" and is acting like that has more weight than all of the weird stuff about the Blood Bowl setting that leads to the conclusion that it is not canon to the main setting, like the previously-mentioned "Nagash watching Cabalvision". When the spin-off doesn't fit the original setting, most people naturally conclude that the spin-off is its own separate thing. He's either trolling, trying to force his fan canon as official, or just unable to read context. In any case, we should probably just let this topic die.