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I'm after a 'non top tier' army that's pretty fun to play, to give my cocky Tau friend a run for his money! He's under the impression that only top tier armies can best him!

I'm wanting an army that's got pretty good internal balance, and versatility. I'd hate to be stuck with only one list that can work. If any of you guys can help, it'd be great!

 Andy140491 wrote:
I'm after a 'non top tier' army that's pretty fun to play, to give my cocky Tau friend a run for his money! He's under the impression that only top tier armies can best him!

I'm wanting an army that's got pretty good internal balance, and versatility. I'd hate to be stuck with only one list that can work. If any of you guys can help, it'd be great!

If he's competitive then he's likely going to curb stomp any kind of guard build that you can throw at him. I'm not sure how well Daemons are playing at the moment though.

 Andy140491 wrote:
I'm after a 'non top tier' army that's pretty fun to play, to give my cocky Tau friend a run for his money! He's under the impression that only top tier armies can best him!

I'm wanting an army that's got pretty good internal balance, and versatility. I'd hate to be stuck with only one list that can work. If any of you guys can help, it'd be great!

You realise that in all the major tournaments Daemons outrank tau by far? You should check out all the placeholders, daemons are by no means overpowered, they take alot of skill and alot of luck but when done right you will probably beat your cocky tau friend. But tbh daemons are doing better than tau with an almost 4 year old codex

Which kind of daemons are doing that? I'd love to make a mixed daemon army!

Do not take Guard. Essentially you will be doing everything he does, but no where near as well.

From what I've seen it's almost entirely KDK lists that are working for daemons...certainly not mixed.

Really? Are mixed daemons that bad?... Awww damn. I'd probably not take them :(

Pure Guard must not be taken for competitiveness atm. At best, it would be an ally for you primary detachment, but still, not very cost effective.

Play Guard if you like their fluff, their units and their infinite customization possibilities. Don't play them if you want to win tournaments.

That being said, a mix of IG FW units and Codex top power builds + Allies like Inquisition can also be nasty!

What would be a good non top tier army to take on Tau with? My main army is wolves... But I fancied a side project. I started Eldar... But they're way too op :/

 Andy140491 wrote:
What would be a good non top tier army to take on Tau with? My main army is wolves... But I fancied a side project. I started Eldar... But they're way too op :/

None. In 40k the top tier pretty much can only be handled by other top tier armies. Tau may be at the bottom of top tier but they are still up there.

I'm not fussed on tabling him... Just givin him a run for his money?

You guys are assuming he's using pure optimized Tau. He might be running a mid tier Tau list without the MC spam.

LexOdin9 wrote:
You guys are assuming he's using pure optimized Tau. He might be running a mid tier Tau list without the MC spam.

Always assume the worst in 40k.

You wont beat Tau at playing shooty and thats what the Guard do. Daemons are a better competitive option for sure, but they are not a weak army.

Why not just use Wolves? I'm sure a Thunderwolf/Wulfen list would make him sweat.

 Andy140491 wrote:
Which kind of daemons are doing that? I'd love to make a mixed daemon army!

The best daemon lists are as follows

Tzeench - top tier with many options and powerful spells
Nurgle/slannesh - about equal in power but versatile against both vehicles and infantry, nurgle is slow but tough slannesh is fast but squishy, nurgle has a bit more of an edge due to their new rules but slannesh is stilll very strong just requires more skill to be played.
Last is Khorn - bloodletters and hounds are fast and are good at killing marines but arent as versatile as the rest and have no spells to fall back on. Also lacks alot of range compared to the others

If the Tau uses no Stormsurge and only one riptide every army in the game can beat them. At least my CSM can, not sure about Orks though... The FaQ even erased buffmander, so it should become easier.

Daemons all the way... even pantheon lists are capable of stomping all over Tau, as long as you know what you're doing with them.

Basically, Daemons break down as roughly;
1. Tzeentch: LoC for S8 in melee + Divination (Precog is his best spell), units of 11 Horrors for WC generation, Tzheralds for doing the bulk of your casting since they can get Lv3 for cheap, Screamers are still a good harassment unit.
The Warpflame Host formation from CotW is readily playable, provided you can get your hands on 4-5 Exalted Flamers. +1S to all Warpflame based attacks in the formation is really good, and can even allow for S7 Flickering Fire!

2. Slaanesh: Seekers all day, every day. Large units of Daemonettes are one of the few foot units that are still fast enough to slog it into melee. Slaaheralds w/Exalted Locus + Etherblades make most HQ's in the game cry. Natural access to Telepathy for Invis fishing + Psychic Shriek spamming. (Shriek alone will wreck Tau!)
The Cavalcade formation from CotW, (the one with Seekers + Chariots), is actually surprisingly strong! A single large unit of Seekers, led by the formation's Herald, and then filled out with chariots is extremely fast, and annoying as hell to deal with, since those chariots are so damn cheap. (and will hit like a Rending freight train on the charge!)

3. Nurgle: Only take Nurgle against Tau if using the CotW formations, otherwise they're too slow for no bonuses.
On the other hand, if you go lots of Slaanesh, you absolutely need to find a way to get the Doomsday Bell relic onto the table, as table-wide -1Ld will combo brilliantly with Psy Shriek spam & other Slaany spells. Also tasty is perhaps including a Nurgle Prince to carry Grotti the Nurgling to go MC/suit hunting, as it inflicts -1T to all non-Daemon of Nurgle models within 6".
The Tallyband formation is rather funny to throw up again Tau, as it's main gimmick is to deny all Overwatch! Nurglings also have innate Infiltrate, so they do offer some added board control. Their main issue is just being so damn slow...

4. Khorne: Str.D Bloodthirster & Jugger Heralds leading Dogs. Ignore everything else. If you can get Invis, then putting that on the Str.D 'Thirster is pretty much 'good night' to anything the Tau can throw at you, especially if you give it the Armour of Scorn.

Other tasty things: Soul Grinders are brutal... Av13/HP4 & Daemon rules, for far less than the just the base cost of the vastly inferior Defiler! Can add on a S6 template with the torrent rule, or else take what is effectively a Battle cannon shot, and also can be given any of the 'Daemon of X' rules. (Tzeentch is typically best, due to the re-roll 1's on all saves)

And of course, a special shout out to Be'lakor. His main thing is that he innately knows every spell from the lore of Telepathy, thus allowing you to guarantee at least 1 copy of Invis for super shenanigans.

I've been looking at collecting a deamon army for like 4 years now, but I'm always driven away because they're so damned hard to paint.

Play Renegades then you can ally in one or the other

I literally saw 3 catachans kill 6 bloodletters. So much for o.p
(killed 2 in ow and they just sucked at throwing there swords around I'm still laughing just thinking about it"

 Andy140491 wrote:
I'm after a 'non top tier' army

Then don't look at daemons. they are same level if not higher than tau with particular builds and are in the runnings with SPESS MUREENS and eldar for power.

 Intercessor wrote:
Play Renegades then you can ally in one or the other

It's like playing guard, but good!

 Andy140491 wrote:
What would be a good non top tier army to take on Tau with? My main army is wolves... But I fancied a side project. I started Eldar... But they're way too op :/

Space wolfs are top tier. Same with Deamons.

Wolfs with Wolfen and thunder wolfs calv and storm fangs will give tau a lot of hurt. Nothing says fun like turn 1 assault.

Are Space Wolves top tier or are 2 units top tier?

As a Guard player, if your looking solely to beat tau go daemons. Most the reason are already covered so I'll just leave it at that.

Bring the Tetrad from Chaos Daemons, swoop right into his face, and beat it in.

Ok it's not as easy as that but the Tetrad is worth running at least once.

 Andy140491 wrote:
What would be a good non top tier army to take on Tau with? My main army is wolves... But I fancied a side project. I started Eldar... But they're way too op :/

A Freakshow list with harlequins and dark eldar, possibly add in corsairs. Attack him through leadership.