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My question is simple:

For WYSIWYG purposes, does the iron halo have to be modeled?

On the one hand, "Iron Halo" is listed as the standard wargear for captains and chapter masters, and is able to be modeled on newer captains and chapter masters.

On the other hand, many captains/chapter masters don't obviously have one. Examples:

Captain Sicarius is not modeled with an iron halo.

Kor'Sarro Khan is not modeled with an iron halo.

Captain Shrike is not modeled with an iron halo.

Captain Lysander, though in terminator armor, is not modeled with an iron halo.

Pedro Kantor is not modeled with an iron halo.

High Marshal Helbrecht is not modeled with an iron halo.

The generic captain model in the codex is not modeled with an iron halo.

So, my question:

For generic captains and chapter masters, do I need to have the spiky thing actually modeled? Or can I just point to a model in power armor (suitably blinged up) and say: "Hey, this is a captain. He gets a 4+ invuln save"?

No. You can just say it's built in to the Captain's super special snowflake armor.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
No. You can just say it's built in to the Captain's super special snowflake armor.

Cool. Basically, my captain is a kitbash from a sternguard model and the Assault on Black Reach captain. I cut off the Assault on Black Reach captain's banner and skull/halo, glued it on to the sternguard model's backpack, and put a power fist and a pistol on said sternguard model, subsequently throwing away the captain (mainly because I just really didn't like the model, and it was terribly painted by me, and I didn't want to deal with it).

However, I've lost the skull and halo that was on top of the banner. Instead, I replaced it with one of those big eagle symbols and glued it to the top of the backpack).

That works?

Dude life is too short, your modeling is fine. WYSIWYG makes sense from a basic weapon perspective, but the crazy amount of special wargear in WH40k makes taking it too seriously too much of a hassle. If it looks cool great, if you dont model it no worries, its a statline.

I would never expect one to be modelled. I think they look awful anyway, so always take them off anyway.

Traditio wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
No. You can just say it's built in to the Captain's super special snowflake armor.

Cool. Basically, my captain is a kitbash from a sternguard model and the Assault on Black Reach captain. I cut off the Assault on Black Reach captain's banner and skull/halo, glued it on to the sternguard model's backpack, and put a power fist and a pistol on said sternguard model, subsequently throwing away the captain (mainly because I just really didn't like the model, and it was terribly painted by me, and I didn't want to deal with it).

However, I've lost the skull and halo that was on top of the banner. Instead, I replaced it with one of those big eagle symbols and glued it to the top of the backpack).

That works?

An Iron Halo doesn't necessarily have to actually look like a half circle. My Captain uses one of those backpack mounted Terminator symbols (I think it comes from the Sternguard Kit. I just grabbed it out of my bits box) for his Iron Halo.

TheCustomLime wrote:An Iron Halo doesn't necessarily have to actually look like a half circle. My Captain uses one of those backpack mounted Terminator symbols (I think it comes from the Sternguard Kit. I just grabbed it out of my bits box) for his Iron Halo.

Ok. In that case, I could just claim that the eagle statue thing is actually the halo.

Sweet.

 Zach wrote:
WYSIWYG makes sense from a basic weapon perspective

This. it is to spot units, not calculate points imho

There are two entirely separate questions here...

Traditio wrote:
My question is simple:

For WYSIWYG purposes, does the iron halo have to be modeled?

If it's not modelled, is the model WYSIWYG?


Clearly not.

So, my question:

For generic captains and chapter masters, do I need to have the spiky thing actually modeled? Or can I just point to a model in power armor (suitably blinged up) and say: "Hey, this is a captain. He gets a 4+ invuln save"?

That's entirely up to you and your opponent.

For my money, I prefer to have everything possible modelled, as it removes the need to remember who has what. Even for 'default' gear, there is an awful lot to remember across all of the different armies, and even within single armies similar models aren't always equipped the same.

It wouldn't be a game-breaker, though, just a preference. And having said that, I have a couple of Captains that were built back before the Iron Halo became a thing, that I've never got around to updating...

An iron halo is just a device that emits a force field and represents a level of rank in a space marine chapter. Different chapters probably have different symbols of rank (wolf stuff for space wolves, blood stuff for blood Angels, street shark logos for Carchinodons) and who is to say the ranking marine in question even wants it perched on top of his armor for every battle? Maybe it's a more covert mission where golden-blinged halos and big banners and gem-encrusted pauldrons would be detrimental to success.

insaniak wrote:If it's not modelled, is the model WYSIWYG?

In all fairness:

1. Pistols on tactical marines?
2. Meltabombs?
3. krak and frag grenades?

I guess it depends on how strictly you construe WYSIWYG.

Clearly not.

For my money, I prefer to have everything possible modelled, as it removes the need to remember who has what. Even for 'default' gear, there is an awful lot to remember across all of the different armies, and even within single armies similar models aren't always equipped the same.

It wouldn't be a game-breaker, though, just a preference. And having said that, I have a couple of Captains that were built back before the Iron Halo became a thing, that I've never got around to updating...

Thought experiment:

You and I are opponents at a tournament (let's assume that the entry free and prize aren't substantial). I point to a sternguard model with golden backpack and helmet, a power fist and boltpistol, a banner on his backpack and a big golden eagle thing on top of his backpack. I say: "That is my captain. I'm putting him with my assault squad. He has a 4+ invuln. Just so you know."

Would you call the TO over and try to have me disqualified?

Traditio wrote:

insaniak wrote:If it's not modelled, is the model WYSIWYG?

In all fairness:

1. Pistols on tactical marines?
2. Meltabombs?
3. krak and frag grenades?

To be completely WYSIWYG, yes.

WYSIWYG means exactly what it says.

Thought experiment:

You and I are opponents at a tournament (let's assume that the entry free and prize aren't substantial). I point to a sternguard model with golden backpack and helmet, a power fist and boltpistol, a banner on his backpack and a big golden eagle thing on top of his backpack. I say: "That is my captain. I'm putting him with my assault squad. He has a 4+ invuln. Just so you know."

Would you call the TO over and try to have me disqualified?

No. It's a game of toy soldiers.

I would prefer, however, that you had all of your models assembled with the appropriate gear.

Insaniak:

Duly noted.

Representing the halo in some way would be good, especially in a tourney army where rules lawyering is more likely, but that doesn't mean necessarily modelling a halo-like thingy. As noted by others, even GW don't always represent it as a literal halo, or at all - fair enough, given it's just a fancy force field.

Adding any sort of circular symbol (even painting it instead of modelling it) to the figure's helmet (or chest plate or even backpack?) would seem sufficient.

At the end of the day, you and your opponent need some way to tell at a glance whether a particular figure has a halo, without referring to your army list. Anything more seems obsessive-compulsive.

Hmm, so long as ALL your captains and chapter masters do have a halo, then simply informing your opponent of that pre-game would also seem sufficient. Only if some do but some don't is it really an issue.

Lysanders iron halo is the skull on top of his armor heh

 Clang wrote:
Representing the halo in some way would be good, especially in a tourney army where rules lawyering is more likely, but that doesn't mean necessarily modelling a halo-like thingy. As noted by others, even GW don't always represent it as a literal halo, or at all - fair enough, given it's just a fancy force field.

Adding any sort of circular symbol (even painting it instead of modelling it) to the figure's helmet (or chest plate or even backpack?) would seem sufficient.

At the end of the day, you and your opponent need some way to tell at a glance whether a particular figure has a halo, without referring to your army list. Anything more seems obsessive-compulsive.

Hmm, so long as ALL your captains and chapter masters do have a halo, then simply informing your opponent of that pre-game would also seem sufficient. Only if some do but some don't is it really an issue.

The iron halo is standard wargear for captains and chapter masters.

You literally cannot have a captain or a chapter master and not have him equipped with a halo.

 Zach wrote:
Dude life is too short, your modeling is fine. WYSIWYG makes sense from a basic weapon perspective, but the crazy amount of special wargear in WH40k makes taking it too seriously too much of a hassle. If it looks cool great, if you dont model it no worries, its a statline.

This post and the spirit it represents need to be enshrined forever to remind people not to get carried away and treat the game like a game.

 teban wrote:
Lysanders iron halo is the skull on top of his armor heh

This is an interesting point.

But I'm not sure how compelling it is. If you look at Vulkan He'Stan, he has something which could, apparently, be an iron halo (the flaming dragon on the top of the model), but he doesn't have an iron halo.

What do you make of this?

Yea...I'd prefer it, but I'm fine with anything 'counting' as an Iron Halo. From fancy helmet, to those laurels that come in old Empire kits, etc. etc. etc.

All the examples of captains without Iron Halos actually have some form of relic or wargear that could represent an Iron Halo

Captain Sicarius Helmet crest, alternatively if modeled without the helmet, the rosarius hanging from his banner is suitable as well
Kor'Sarro Khan has a skull mounted on a winged version of his chapter symbol.
Captain Kayvaan Shrike does not have an obvious Iron Halo but I would consider the rosarius to be the source of the force field.
Captain Lysander, as teban pointed out, has an ornate skull above his armour.
Pedro Kantor has iron laurels which, I think, are a great way to represent an Iron Halo.
High Marshal Helbrecht has a very cool metal cross.

I point all these out to emphasise the point that an Iron Halo does not have to be a spiky half circle. It can be anything your imagination desires it to be!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Consider that the name "Iron Halo" might be in reference to the force field projected as opposed to what the object casting the shield looks like.

Food for thought

 Xendarc wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Consider that the name "Iron Halo" might be in reference to the force field projected as opposed to what the object casting the shield looks like.

Food for thought

In 2nd ed SM could take all manner of conversion fields etc. The Iron Halo was just an award given to Space Marine officers who showed exceptional initiative. Sergeants could get it and it was just painted onto their armour.

In 3rd ed the Iron Halo was added to the armory as a force field generator and was the only invuln save you could get except Terminator armour (unless you were a chaplain)
It was also one per army- if you took an Emperor's champion (who had one) your captain couldn't take one.
The only Emperor's champion at the time did not have an Iron halo modeled or painted- though he does have Imperial laurels... The current champion gets an invuln from his 'armour of faith' rather than a halo.



Dante did have an Iron halo however. When the plastic captain came out, he came with an iron halo bit to represent the wargear.

My opinion on this is that it would be appropriate to the background to model a halo emitter (even just the honorific on a shoulder pad) and it would be certainly courteous to your opponent to point it out.
Old timers still stuck in 3rd may not remember that all captains come with halos now.

 =Angel= wrote:
The Iron Halo was just an award given to Space Marine officers who showed exceptional initiative. Sergeants could get it and it was just painted onto their armour.

I was just about to mention that. That's literally all it was - something painted onto the armour. It wasn't an item of wargear, it had absolutely no rules effect (if you wanted a 4+ unmodifiable save, you stumped up 10 points for a Conversion Field).

With regards to meltabombs, I don't give every model one, but I do add two or three to the squad. In general, I tend to follow Necromunda's WYSIWYG rules - pistol holsters can be any pistol you like, grenades don't need to be shown because they go in a pocket. What my opponent does Is up to them. Like Insaniak, I'd prefer it if they did the same as me (only for the look of the thing), but unless they're a tool, I'm not going to raise a fuss.

I thought Captain Sicarius's Iron Halo was shown by the icon of it on one of his shoulder pads along with some fancy star in the middle of it? I'm sure there was a picture box of it explaining all of his armour "accessories/awards" in one of the codex's.

As for me I'd prefer it was shown on the model in some way shape or form, whether that be an actual halo behind the head or the shoulder pad like Sicarius or a piece of fancy gizmo/tech stuff that couldn't be mistaken for something else. Like a cherub, servo skull or a Watcher in the Dark if I remember correctly - didn't they used to give 4+ inv with the Lion Helm?

Traditio wrote:

 Clang wrote:
Representing the halo in some way would be good, especially in a tourney army where rules lawyering is more likely, but that doesn't mean necessarily modelling a halo-like thingy. As noted by others, even GW don't always represent it as a literal halo, or at all - fair enough, given it's just a fancy force field.

Adding any sort of circular symbol (even painting it instead of modelling it) to the figure's helmet (or chest plate or even backpack?) would seem sufficient.

At the end of the day, you and your opponent need some way to tell at a glance whether a particular figure has a halo, without referring to your army list. Anything more seems obsessive-compulsive.

Hmm, so long as ALL your captains and chapter masters do have a halo, then simply informing your opponent of that pre-game would also seem sufficient. Only if some do but some don't is it really an issue.

The iron halo is standard wargear for captains and chapter masters.

You literally cannot have a captain or a chapter master and not have him equipped with a halo.

Did not realise that. If it's compulsory wargear, then there's no possible rules confusion from whether it's represented on a particular model (which was IMHO the real point of WYSIWYG, to stop all those "that marine has an invisible power fist, didn't I tell you?" weasels), so a rules lawyer would have an uphill battle arguing any sort of unfair advantage due to its non-representation.

The biggest advantage of representing it might be to remind yourself mid-battle that the figure has it

 Clang wrote:

Did not realise that. If it's compulsory wargear, then there's no possible rules confusion from whether it's represented on a particular model (which was IMHO the real point of WYSIWYG, to stop all those "that marine has an invisible power fist, didn't I tell you?" weasels), so a rules lawyer would have an uphill battle arguing any sort of unfair advantage due to its non-representation.

Not entirely. The 'real point' of WYSIWYG is to make the game easier to play, through not having to refer to the book to determine what each model is equipped with. While it does certainly help to cut down shenanigans from unrepresented upgrades, it applies just as much to standard gear as it does to options.


The fact that GW themselves often don't actually make their figures match their rules (Chaplain Cassius would have to have been the best example of this that I can remember...) does muddy the waters somewhat though, particularly when rules and gear for a given unit can change substantially over successive editions.


While the Halo is currently standard on all Codex Marine Captains, it's not universal across the different flavours of Marines, so having it represented in some fashion for the sake of those not as familiar with the nuances of the different types of Marines is still beneficial.

@Angel - Funny you should mention the old Iron Halo snip. I don't recall that specific blurb, but the first time I saw the BA decal sheet, I thought, "cool, there's an iron halo decal!".

I put it on the left gauntlet of this techmarine -- ironically, not to designate an iron halo, just because it's a nice decal, and it fit.

 Talys wrote:
@Angel - Funny you should mention the old Iron Halo snip. I don't recall that specific blurb, but the first time I saw the BA decal sheet, I thought, "cool, there's an iron halo decal!".

I put it on the left gauntlet of this techmarine -- ironically, not to designate an iron halo, just because it's a nice decal, and it fit.

Spoiler:

That's awesome!
I had thought there was an iron halo transfer but I looked at the SM transfer sheet and couldnt see one.
I remember in the FAQ for codex Armageddon, there was a question about an army pic where someone had converted an iron halo for their Black Templar captain- which of course he couldn't have (Compulsory Emp champ had it, one per army etc)
Their response was that it was his UHF Ariel.

One thing about Iron Halos is they help separate the captains from the sergeants. Depending on your paint job and how well you equip your guys, it can be hard to pick out the HQ in a squad of assault marines or vanguard vets. The halo is a specific badge of office these days, that helps point out the HQ in the mob.

It’s not required, but it’s a good idea. More so if you don’t paint.

I'm all for WYSIWYG when it comes to weapons, pistols and grenades but when it's something like an Iron Halo or a relic that can be pretty much anything and may not necessarily be warn outside the armour some leeway should be given.

When it's a Captain/ Chapter Master who has the item as standard it makes it a non issue, we all can identify the miniature a mile off and we should know what the standard - non changeable equipment of said miniature should do. WYSIWYG really becomes necessary when representing upgrades and optional weaponry...

 Nevelon wrote:
One thing about Iron Halos is they help separate the captains from the sergeants. Depending on your paint job and how well you equip your guys, it can be hard to pick out the HQ in a squad of assault marines or vanguard vets. The halo is a specific badge of office these days, that helps point out the HQ in the mob.

It’s not required, but it’s a good idea. More so if you don’t paint.

I agree but I think capes do that better. All the metal captains and the plastic ones come with a cape, unless they are in terminator armour.
The main issue is for those who have kitbashed captains from other kits- but then they wouldn't have an Iron Halo available unless they bought the terminator box.
Is there a halo in the vets kit?