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Made in gb
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




UK.

I'm facing Necrons on Wednesday at our local club. I use Blood angels. it'll be a 2,000 point army list.

I'm aiming to hit hard, hit fast, reducing the amount of time he can shoot at me to a minimum, but the Wraiths are a concern.

What's the best way to take wraiths out?

And do they have anything that can affect my initiative? And can I counter it?

You'll never see me coming.

Follow me on Twitter: @DavidPMcDougall

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Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

Just tie them up for the game. Throw in something that's fearless and watch them tarpit eachother. Wraiths don't do ridiculous damage.

And your last question, they have something to make themselves strike at I5, but they no longer have the Init reduction that they used to.

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Made in gb
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




UK.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Just tie them up for the game. Throw in something that's fearless and watch them tarpit eachother. Wraiths don't do ridiculous damage.

And your last question, they have something to make themselves strike at I5, but they no longer have the Init reduction that they used to.


Thanks. Much appreciated!

You'll never see me coming.

Follow me on Twitter: @DavidPMcDougall

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Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





[obligatory "If there's a Spyder, kill it ASAP" comment]

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I'll second tying them up as opposed to trying to actually kill them. Played two games against crons and both games had a unit of six. First game they tore things up pretty good, but the second I got a unit of Vraks zombies on them and hit them with enfeeble and held them up for quite a while.

Not sure if blood angles have anything comparable though.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Tarpit the tarpit. Irony in motion. The best it is to tarpit them on an objective with an obj sec unit. That way, you tie them up and score potentially.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/31 14:27:18


 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Martel732 wrote:
The best it is to tarpit them on an objective with an obj sec unit. That way, you tie them up and score potentially.

This is the correct answer.

 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




Also, just shoot them. T5 is tougher than a Marine, sure, and 3++ is annoying for your Grav/Melta/Plas, but its still just 3 or better. You fail it one out of 3 times. Enough bolters or whatever will whittle them down a lot faster than you think, especially without RP.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Martel732 wrote:
Tarpit the tarpit. Irony in motion. The best it is to tarpit them on an objective with an obj sec unit. That way, you tie them up and score potentially.

I would challange the fact that there are very few units that are objective secured that can tarpit wraiths! As a Grey-knight player I know the best way to beat wraiths. Force halberds and hammerhand - wound on 2+ with instant death So no RP. Absolutely murders wraiths. Sad thing is...you will only ever fool a Necron with this once. Then they start bringing warriors out the arse because why the heck not?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/31 18:03:10


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Tarpit the tarpit. Irony in motion. The best it is to tarpit them on an objective with an obj sec unit. That way, you tie them up and score potentially.

I would challange the fact that there are very few units that are objective secured that can tarpit wraiths! As a Grey-knight player I know the best way to beat wraiths. Force halberds and hammerhand - wound on 2+ with instant death So no RP. Absolutely murders wraiths. Sad thing is...you will only ever fool a Necron with this once. Then they start bringing warriors out the arse because why the heck not?


Actually, ID is only a penalty to RP. It doesn't completely get rid of RP. I've tied them up with a couple of scout squads for a while. I run, they catch me with whip coils and I keep fighting. It's one of the few times ATSKNF matters.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/31 18:24:53


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Instant death doesn't remove reanimation protocols, just makes it 1 worse unfortunately. D weapons will remove it though.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
Instant death doesn't remove reanimation protocols, just makes it 1 worse unfortunately. D weapons will remove it though.


On a "6", or with any D result?
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

Martel732 wrote:
TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
Instant death doesn't remove reanimation protocols, just makes it 1 worse unfortunately. D weapons will remove it though.


On a "6", or with any D result?

Any D result (that isn't a '1', obviously), just as D ignores FNP.

   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 Galef wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
Instant death doesn't remove reanimation protocols, just makes it 1 worse unfortunately. D weapons will remove it though.


On a "6", or with any D result?

Any D result (that isn't a '1', obviously), just as D ignores FNP.


But I don't think IKs are a good idea if you play a lot of Necrons.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
Instant death doesn't remove reanimation protocols, just makes it 1 worse unfortunately. D weapons will remove it though.

Yeah you are right - Still the reduction is very helpful. Gotta be my biggest gripe about RP though - It's FNP but better - as if FNP isn't good enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you really want to make necrons disappear bring wraithguard with d scythe . Doom them if you really want to remove models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/31 18:44:08


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Does Doom actually effect D weapons? I thought it was just normal rolls.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






pm713 wrote:
Does Doom actually effect D weapons? I thought it was just normal rolls.

reroll to wound. D weapons still do roll to wound don't they?

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

 Xenomancers wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Does Doom actually effect D weapons? I thought it was just normal rolls.

reroll to wound. D weapons still do roll to wound don't they?


Technically, I do not think D weapons roll to wound or penetrate. They automatically do that on a 2+. So, things like doom or preferred enemy or whatnot shouldn't apply. Not sure if that was addressed in the FAQ.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User





 Xenomancers wrote:

Yeah you are right - Still the reduction is very helpful. Gotta be my biggest gripe about RP though - It's FNP but better - as if FNP isn't good enough.


Absolutely. Enfeeble has become one of my favorite powers now. Wraiths become a lot more manageable with t4, as do warriors with t3.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Xenomancers wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Does Doom actually effect D weapons? I thought it was just normal rolls.

reroll to wound. D weapons still do roll to wound don't they?

I'm pretty sure they roll on the D table instead.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Why the hell is everyone obsessed with KILLING Wraiths?
They're a distraction unit.
"Oh no! He brought Wraiths! I better devote my entire army to killing them or he'll steamroll me!"
This is what any good Necron player is HOPING their opponent thinks when they put those things on the table.
Look, as long as they don't have a Destroyer Lord attached to them, they're honestly not worth worrying that much about. Their main role is to run up as fast as they can to catch the best thing you've got to keep it from running roughshod over his squishy guys. You can foil his plans by throwing something fast and cheap at them before he can do so.
...
Or you can go ahead and do what he's hoping you'll do and devote way too much resources into trying to kill them.

TL;DR- play smart

 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 skoffs wrote:
Why the hell is everyone obsessed with KILLING Wraiths?
They're a distraction unit.
"Oh no! He brought Wraiths! I better devote my entire army to killing them or he'll steamroll me!"
This is what any good Necron player is HOPING their opponent thinks when they put those things on the table.
Look, as long as they don't have a Destroyer Lord attached to them, they're honestly not worth worrying that much about. Their main role is to run up as fast as they can to catch the best thing you've got to keep it from running roughshod over his squishy guys. You can foil his plans by throwing something fast and cheap at them before he can do so.
...
Or you can go ahead and do what he's hoping you'll do and devote way too much resources into trying to kill them.

TL;DR- play smart


I feed them tac marines and see how long that lasts.
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant





Canada

The last time I fought my Cron buddy I brough some Zombie Cultists and just fed the little buggers a full 35 man squad. It took them maybe 4 turns to finally break out, and by that time I had board control. He was quite sad at how little I had thrown at him to effectively sedate his Wraiths.

Mind you I had some Psychic backup to but, honestly, it wasn't much.

Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.

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11,000

 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 skoffs wrote:
Why the hell is everyone obsessed with KILLING Wraiths?
They're a distraction unit.
"Oh no! He brought Wraiths! I better devote my entire army to killing them or he'll steamroll me!"
This is what any good Necron player is HOPING their opponent thinks when they put those things on the table.
Look, as long as they don't have a Destroyer Lord attached to them, they're honestly not worth worrying that much about. Their main role is to run up as fast as they can to catch the best thing you've got to keep it from running roughshod over his squishy guys. You can foil his plans by throwing something fast and cheap at them before he can do so.
...
Or you can go ahead and do what he's hoping you'll do and devote way too much resources into trying to kill them.

TL;DR- play smart

Wraiths aren't a distraction unit...LOL..you makes me LOL.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




 Xenomancers wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
Why the hell is everyone obsessed with KILLING Wraiths?
They're a distraction unit.
"Oh no! He brought Wraiths! I better devote my entire army to killing them or he'll steamroll me!"
This is what any good Necron player is HOPING their opponent thinks when they put those things on the table.
Look, as long as they don't have a Destroyer Lord attached to them, they're honestly not worth worrying that much about. Their main role is to run up as fast as they can to catch the best thing you've got to keep it from running roughshod over his squishy guys. You can foil his plans by throwing something fast and cheap at them before he can do so.
...
Or you can go ahead and do what he's hoping you'll do and devote way too much resources into trying to kill them.

TL;DR- play smart

Wraiths aren't a distraction unit...LOL..you makes me LOL.


Maybe not completely, but they sure as heck aren't a mega killy unit. Most of the time, we use them to tarpit. They're only killy against units that suck in Assault anyway, like Tacs and Guardians. Against anything that's at least moderately durable, they're not doing much, and against dedicated combat units, they're a speed bump at best.

There are plenty of armies that I play against where the best I can hope for my Wraiths is for them to be bullet sponges. Eldar, for one, since Bikes are too fast, Warp Spiders are essentially Fearless and have Hit and Run, and Wraiths don't kill Wraithknights by any stretch of the imagination. White Scars bikers too - we can kill small bike units, but Command Squads or anything with an IC, the Wraiths basically can't do anything against. Just run at something important and hope that they blast bullets into these guys instead of Destroyers or something important.
   
Made in gb
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




UK.

Thanks for all the replies, folks. Much appreciated.

I've modified my list quite a bit. I've got my own mini-tarpit, DISTRACTION CARNIFEX squad: a cheap, 5-man DC squad without JP. These guys will be held back whilst the rest rolls forward, helping out at the rear in case he tries to flank me, deep into my deployment area. Alternatively, they'll slog behind everyone else, except my Heavy Support, dealing with whatever gets through. I'm hoping to use them against the Wraiths. After all, they're only 100 points for the squad. but they're more durable and more effective in CC.

Oh, and don't worry about me using/wasting a DC squad on mop up duty. I've got another two 10-man DC squads that'll be hoping to 'get in his face'. One squad has JP, the other is using the only drop pod as a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX in turn 1.

I've also got a 10-man ASM squad, with a Sanguinary Priest to make them more effective in CC and more durable. Almost everything that's going to hit him in CC will have FNP, so I'm playing him at his own game. Tactical's are also along for the ride to thin the herd with bolter fire and HF, before the other squads assault. They'll also support the advance.

As far as I know, we aren't playing for on objective, just all out slaughter, which I know Necrons do well in, but it also means he can spread his force along the table, which he almost always does, allowing me to concentrate on one part of his force until he rolls the other half in. And when he does, my DC squad and a few other additions will hopefully tarpit or destroy.

Of course, that's the plan. And no plan survives contact with the enemy. So I'm expecting to get slaughtered in two turns.

You'll never see me coming.

Follow me on Twitter: @DavidPMcDougall

2,000 points
 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

Haha, a bit of positive thinking goes a long way :p

All in all, wraiths are a pain in the arse and always will be.
While they can fight, they are still more of an annoyance than a worry.

You can try and get rid of them, but the shooting you throw at them would be far more effective used else where.

Just don't fall into the trap of wanting to kill them.


Since your also not playing objectives, it makes your life easier as they aren't hunting a backfield obsec unit.
That's when they become more than a distraction.

   
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot





My ancient "lab"

wraiths aren't the be all end all of your strategy. Send a few average cc units at them to stop them from attack anything else. For 120 points without upgrades, they're average and you only need an assault squad with a sergeant with an upgraded cc weapon. Then you could hopefully hit them with 16(I think) attacks by charging him first round.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
Wraiths aren't a distraction unit...LOL..you makes me LOL.
If you see something and decide you need to focus all your attention on that thing, instead of something else which may be the actual threat, what would you call that?

If the Necron player has gone all out with Wraith-Wing, then yes, they are your primary concern (really, just the unit with the Destroyer Lord is the one to worry about),
But if he's running a regular army that happens to include Wraiths, they are there to A) distract the opponent into throwing way too much effort into getting rid of them, and B) run up and engage whatever the Necron player considers the best thing on the other side of the table to be. Of the two things, B is the one you should be concerned about. He's not trying to kill that "best thing" on the other side, he's trying to make sure it can't kill his best stuff. Best way to accomplish that is to tie it down in combat with something that's fast and hard to kill. If possible, avoid that outcome by counter engaging them with something cheap and fast of your own before he can do it first.

 
   
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tell me what destroyer lords do for the wraiths and how many points they are i don't know

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