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This idea is routinely coming back in my list of fanwishes for 40K.

I really want to see an human army opposing the Imperium and toning down the grimdark (like the Tau did in it's first appearance).

Both the Galactic Republic and the American revolution are the the sources of inspiration for me; A group of human inhabited planets decided to rebel against the Imperium with the help of "certain species".

What do you think?

No.
No noblebright republic in my delicious grimdark please. Unless of course said republic is a grimdark satire of present-day "democracies". That would be fun.
It has to be depressing and dystopian, otherwise it is in the wrong universe. Hopeful rebellions and freedom fighters are perfectly fine, but in the end their ideals have to become twisted and end up worse than whatever it was they were fighting against. That, or they have to meet some other kind of grisly demise because the whole thing was a gruesome plot by Chaos or Dark Eldar or something like that. Such is the way things go in the grim darkness of the far future.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
No.
No noblebright republic in my delicious grimdark please. Unless of course said republic is a grimdark satire of present-day "democracies". That would be fun.

How about Nobledark?

Maybe it comes a bit closer with the ruling military (like the Shogun) and citizen militia. And don't forget the nukes, when the situation becomes desperate.

 Limeblossom wrote:
This idea is routinely coming back in my list of fanwishes for 40K.

I really want to see an human army opposing the Imperium and toning down the grimdark (like the Tau did in it's first appearance).

Both the Galactic Republic and the American revolution are the the sources of inspiration for me; A group of human inhabited planets decided to rebel against the Imperium with the help of "certain species".

What do you think?

Doesn't that already exist? Renegades/heretics?

Traditio wrote:

Doesn't that already exist? Renegades/heretics?

That's more like The Lost and the Damned.

In the background there was a technologically advanced human faction called the Interex, who opposed the Imperium during the great crusade.
What is notable that unlike the Emperor's Imperium, the Interex had some alliances with aliens, and were considerably more advanced than the imperium at the time, albeit unskilled in warfare.

They were wiped out.

There are semi-independent empires and rebellious entities all over the Imperium. They're never talked about because they're not interesting and the codices don't detail any conflicts that aren't huge sector-sized battles or absurdly apocalyptic, but they exist and they fight for their existence all the time. The prime example would be the Severan Dominate, which declared its independence and has been fighting against the armies of the Calixus Sector for awhile now. Yet even nobles within the Calixus Sector have forgotten about it and forces have been allocated elsewhere despite the Severan Dominate still being around.

If you want more details about these kinds of entities, read the RPGs.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

What is notable that unlike the Emperor's Imperium, the Interex had some alliances with aliens, and were considerably more advanced than the imperium at the time, albeit unskilled in warfare.

They were wiped out.

Then they weren't more advanced.

 Limeblossom wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
No.
No noblebright republic in my delicious grimdark please. Unless of course said republic is a grimdark satire of present-day "democracies". That would be fun.

How about Nobledark?

No. Nobledark means that even though the situation is dark and desperate, there are still noble heroes and that there is still hope. And as we all know, in 40k, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. The dystopian and forlorn cynical feel is what makes 40k into 40k imo. So xeno empires, seperatist human empires and rebels can exist, but either their cause must be completely hopeless (like the Tau for example), or they must succumb to Chaos or otherwise be headed for an inevitable demise, just like the Imperium itself is.

jareddm wrote:
There are semi-independent empires and rebellious entities all over the Imperium. They're never talked about because they're not interesting and the codices don't detail any conflicts that aren't huge sector-sized battles or absurdly apocalyptic, but they exist and they fight for their existence all the time. The prime example would be the Severan Dominate, which declared its independence and has been fighting against the armies of the Calixus Sector for awhile now. Yet even nobles within the Calixus Sector have forgotten about it and forces have been allocated elsewhere despite the Severan Dominate still being around.

If you want more details about these kinds of entities, read the RPGs.

The Severan Dominate is not anything like a democratic republic or group of heroic freedom fighters though. It is ruled by a despot who sells his people to the Dark Eldar and only seceded from the Imperium because it put limits on his power.

 Delicate Swarm wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

What is notable that unlike the Emperor's Imperium, the Interex had some alliances with aliens, and were considerably more advanced than the imperium at the time, albeit unskilled in warfare.

They were wiped out.

Then they weren't more advanced.

Being wiped out doesn't make you less advanced.

 Delicate Swarm wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

What is notable that unlike the Emperor's Imperium, the Interex had some alliances with aliens, and were considerably more advanced than the imperium at the time, albeit unskilled in warfare.

They were wiped out.

Then they weren't more advanced.

Being more advanced does not mean victory. It just makes it easier.
The Chinese were more technologically advanced than the Mongols. They still got conquered.

As I explained before, whilst the Interex had better tech overall, they weren't as warfare orientated as the Imperium.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Delicate Swarm wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

What is notable that unlike the Emperor's Imperium, the Interex had some alliances with aliens, and were considerably more advanced than the imperium at the time, albeit unskilled in warfare.

They were wiped out.

Then they weren't more advanced.

Being more advanced does not mean victory. It just makes it easier.
The Chinese were more technologically advanced than the Mongols. They still got conquered.

As I explained before, whilst the Interex had better tech overall, they weren't as warfare orientated as the Imperium.

Not to mention the Imperium's forces were significantly larger (at least relatively speaking) and they had the Astartes.

Such a republic exists its the Cult of Mars


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only downside is that its still grim dark ; )

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The Severan Dominate is not anything like a democratic republic or group of heroic freedom fighters though. It is ruled by a despot who sells his people to the Dark Eldar and only seceded from the Imperium because it put limits on his power.

And do the Dominate soldiers on the front lines know that? No. By that same logic Gaunt's Ghosts aren't heroic either because they work for the Imperium. If you look beyond the absurdist memes and the horrifically superficial codices, 40k can be as heroic or as dark as you want, it's simply a matter of perspective and scale. We don't hear about it much anymore but there were plenty of uprisings and riots and supposed terrorist activities that the Adeptus Arbites and local enforcers and PDF put down on a regular basis. How many of those are just people trying to make a better life for themselves? How many are practicing and preaching the concepts of "equality" and "freedom"? Probably a bunch of them. And every once in awhile, one of them succeeds and the planet gets written off by the Imperium. At least for a few hundred or a thousand years before it's rediscovered.

The imperium doesn't sell their species to a bunch of xeno sadists though.

The imperium isn't a nice place, but its probably the only good place for humanity.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The imperium doesn't sell their species to a bunch of xeno sadists though.

The imperium isn't a nice place, but its probably the only good place for humanity.

Except when the Golden Throne needs to be repaired, or when it's more cost effective to do so, or when a Rogue Trader or Inquisitor needs some extra muscle. Like I said, perspective and scale. Individual worlds can be great places for individuals. Maybe they weren't always and maybe they won't be tomorrow, but individuals fight for the now.

I actually like the idea of a progressive Star Trek-style human republic that peacefully coexists with aliens fighting an existential struggle against the Imperium. It would be refreshing to see the Imperials in an antagonistic role and show the difference in the states of humanity.

The Horus Heresy did this, specifically with the Diasporex and Interex

You can't live "freely" and "happy" outside the Imperium.
That exactly the point of the Imperium: it is the last defense of Mankind. Leaving the Imperium is death/corruption.
IIRC it is even written in the rulesbook.

You want to be free ? To do whatever pleases you ? Be sure to welcome Slaanesh.

40k isn't grimdark because the Imperium exists, it is grimdark because the Imperium is the better hope of mankind.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Delicate Swarm wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

What is notable that unlike the Emperor's Imperium, the Interex had some alliances with aliens, and were considerably more advanced than the imperium at the time, albeit unskilled in warfare.

They were wiped out.

Then they weren't more advanced.

Being more advanced does not mean victory. It just makes it easier.
The Chinese were more technologically advanced than the Mongols. They still got conquered.

As I explained before, whilst the Interex had better tech overall, they weren't as warfare orientated as the Imperium.

It was a joke. Depends on your definition of "Advanced". If you base it on who has more shiny stuff then yeah, the Interex were more advanced. But in a purely survivalistic sense, they failed.


"Hence it comes that all armed prophets have been victorious, and all unarmed prophets have been destroyed."

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
In the background there was a technologically advanced human faction called the Interex, who opposed the Imperium during the great crusade.
What is notable that unlike the Emperor's Imperium, the Interex had some alliances with aliens, and were considerably more advanced than the imperium at the time, albeit unskilled in warfare.

They were wiped out.

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.

It does not matter how advanced you are, if the Imperium decides that you are its primary threat, you are ended. The only reason the Tau still exist is because they have the plot armor of "the Imperium is too busy to devote the necessary resources to a Crusade of Annihilation". The Tau Empire, itself, is tiny and galactically insignificant. It is Rhode Island compared to Eurasia.

Another human empire would be much the same thing. If nothing else works, the Imperium can drown them in bodies, because raw manpower is the one resource the Imperium does not lack.

 godardc wrote:
You can't live "freely" and
IIRC it is even written in the rulesbook.
.

The rulebook is Imperial propaganda join the Wolfpack raiders today and enjoy your riches in total freedom.

jareddm wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The imperium doesn't sell their species to a bunch of xeno sadists though.

The imperium isn't a nice place, but its probably the only good place for humanity.

Except when the Golden Throne needs to be repaired, or when it's more cost effective to do so, or when a Rogue Trader or Inquisitor needs some extra muscle. Like I said, perspective and scale. Individual worlds can be great places for individuals. Maybe they weren't always and maybe they won't be tomorrow, but individuals fight for the now.

The Golden Throne is needed for humanity's survival, and an inquisitor requisitioning labor still isn't the same as selling out your own species to aliens.
You might as well complain about the construction of the Great Wall or the Taj Mahal.
Perspective and Scale.

Personally I don't know how you'd manage to get a couple planets (however many the OP was thinking) to form a nice and stable republic. Look at earth to see how hard it is for a smallish world mostly covered in water. In in star wars, given that it was listed as an example, most of the senate is corrupt and most of the power resides in the core worlds.

However, maybe that's the charm. The upper class love their democracy and freedom, and are horrified when the Imperium tries to take over. When the Imperium does though, the lower classes can't tell much of a difference. The last bastion of freedom wasn't a republic, it was an oligarchy/feudal system.

I do agree with the general consensus that a noblebright republic won't work, not because my version of 40k has to be all Grimdark, but because I don't see a way for a republic to work on that scale.

The Hyperion Cantos gives multiple answers how it could still work. Their void that binds is practically the warp so it could work. Who knows their Ai's might even be the "chaos" gods.

So no Brighthammer for you guys then?

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Setting:Brighthammer_40,000/2nd_edition

No, that's heresy.

 Limeblossom wrote:
This idea is routinely coming back in my list of fanwishes for 40K.

I really want to see an human army opposing the Imperium and toning down the grimdark (like the Tau did in it's first appearance).

Both the Galactic Republic and the American revolution are the the sources of inspiration for me; A group of human inhabited planets decided to rebel against the Imperium with the help of "certain species".

What do you think?

Not going to happen, just remember the only reason the Tau even exist and havent been wiped out is becuase of their rediculous plot armour.

TheWanderer wrote:

 Limeblossom wrote:
This idea is routinely coming back in my list of fanwishes for 40K.

I really want to see an human army opposing the Imperium and toning down the grimdark (like the Tau did in it's first appearance).

Both the Galactic Republic and the American revolution are the the sources of inspiration for me; A group of human inhabited planets decided to rebel against the Imperium with the help of "certain species".

What do you think?

Not going to happen, just remember the only reason the Tau even exist and havent been wiped out is becuase of their rediculous plot armour.

So just like most imperial factions then?
Forget the power of logic and reasoning, for there are so many braincells lost never to be found again. There is no peace among the stars only an eternity of multiple, simultaneous and devastating defensive deep strike, preferably while seething with generic rage and waving around sharpened sticks.

No we must stick to GW's outdated grimdark theme from the 80's.