The Rise of a Dictator or How the Philippines got their Dictatorship Back

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**Desubot**

Monkey Tamer wrote:
Let's play devil's advocate. What if he doesn't abuse his power and actually only goes after bad people? I've known enough politicians to doubt this, but a few dead bad guys sends a strong message. Maybe if we had a few politicians strung up over here things would be better. Violence or threat of violence is the ultimate motivator.

If thats what he and the people that voted for him whats to do, then more power to them. no matter how despicable it is to everyone else.

**TheCustomLime**

I guess it's okay to murder people if you don't like them now. As long as it's not on racial or sexuality grounds, of course.

**jhe90**

Problem, well a very big one.

Who decides who a "criminal" or "corupt" is

Who decides who gets killed... Fir justice. Or darker motives

**Spinner**

I wonder how much less support this would get if the murder victims weren't termed 'corrupt' or 'drug traffickers', but instead 'subversives' or 'enemies of the state'.

As for 'it's the will of the people'...I'm sure the guy calling in freelance hits is going to get a LOT of people running openly against him.

**Jihadin**

City of Davao pretty damn squared away.

**Ouze**

Jihadin wrote:
City of Davao pretty damn squared away.

They have a murder rate roughly even, per capita, with Chicago - favored "failed city example" of the right wing..

**Jihadin**

Ouze wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
City of Davao pretty damn squared away.

They have a murder rate roughly even, per capita, with Chicago - favored "failed city example" of the right wing..

Hmm good point but. Yes a "but". With ExPat its a lot damn safer. Accept the VA there is located in Manila.

**oldravenman3025**

Ouze wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
City of Davao pretty damn squared away.

They have a murder rate roughly even, per capita, with Chicago - favored "failed city example" of the right wing..

Language. --Janthkin might be crap, I would hardly call it a "failed city".

Detoliet....er, I meant Detroit....on the other hand.......

**Dreadwinter**

oldravenman3025 wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
You don't want to be dealing with drugs there. Don't be corrupt. This guy has a lot of faults but he is dead serious.
He already put notice to a lot of officials who are corrupt that they be replaced
The law enforcement officers who are subpar are being relocated to the area where rebels operate.
....
....
This guy is cleaning house.

This.

He's not a "dictator" (unless you are one of the "muh feelz" persuasion). The people elected him because they're fed up. And he's keeping his campaign promises to deal with sources of his country's problems directly and harshly And he doesn't wrap his language in claptrap, flowery political double-speak.

So, using assassins and not using giving people fair trials does not scream "dictator" to you?

Just out of curiosity, how would you define the term "dictator"? He has absolute power and is attempting to rule through the use of fear.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Desubot wrote:
Monkey Tamer wrote:
Let's play devil's advocate. What if he doesn't abuse his power and actually only goes after bad people? I've known enough politicians to doubt this, but a few dead bad guys sends a strong message. Maybe if we had a few politicians strung up over here things would be better. Violence or threat of violence is the ultimate motivator.

If thats what he and the people that voted for him whats to do, then more power to them. no matter how despicable it is to everyone else.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is how you get Hitler. Good job!

**=Angel=**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
And I hate to Godwin the thread, but Hitler was a populist leader with the support of his people too.

Hitler was a vegetarian
Hitler loved dogs
Hitler promoted excellent infrastructure that serves Germans well today

Every politician is populist to some extent. You don't get elected without making claims and promises that appeal to a majority.
In this instance, Filipinos seem to have been swayed by his stance on drugs.

dictionary wrote:dictator

noun
a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.
synonyms: autocrat, monocrat, absolute ruler; More
a person who behaves in an autocratic way.
(in ancient Rome) a chief magistrate with absolute power, appointed in an emergency.

None of the above describes what has happened here. People voted in an Authoritarian who advocated violence against criminals.
He's not a dictator until he seizes all power to himself.

I don't personally agree with his stances but I'm not about to 'liberate' the Phillipines and neither is anyone else unless oil is discovered.

**Jihadin**

China might be raising an eyebrow though.
Dept of State might keep quiet but then again they might not. They're still catching crap from the fall out with Thailand on telling them to reform. Thailand made a arms deal with Putin, also agriculture deal with Putin, also a trade deal, and a few other deals.

**Dreadwinter**

=Angel= wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
And I hate to Godwin the thread, but Hitler was a populist leader with the support of his people too.

Hitler was a vegetarian
Hitler loved dogs
Hitler promoted excellent infrastructure that serves Germans well today

Every politician is populist to some extent. You don't get elected without making claims and promises that appeal to a majority.
In this instance, Filipinos seem to have been swayed by his stance on drugs.

dictionary wrote:dictator

noun
a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.
synonyms: autocrat, monocrat, absolute ruler; More
a person who behaves in an autocratic way.
(in ancient Rome) a chief magistrate with absolute power, appointed in an emergency.

None of the above describes what has happened here. People voted in an Authoritarian who advocated violence against criminals.
He's not a dictator until he seizes all power to himself.

I don't personally agree with his stances but I'm not about to 'liberate' the Phillipines and neither is anyone else unless oil is discovered.

One does not have to seize through power to be a Dictator. That is how it usually starts, but of course we know through history that is not always the case. (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini)

He is currently dismissing generals and politicians based on claims of corruption with no trials. He is assassinating journalists and civilians on claims of corruption/illegal behavior with no trial. I mean, how would you describe those actions?

**Gitzbitah**

It seems to be a natural extension of the only policies working in that country- the crime statistics are horrifying. The measures he is proposing are undeniably drastic, but for now are strictly leveled against criminals. This is the Phillipne's Robocop.

http://www.philstar.com/metro/2015/08/02/1483869/philippine-crime-rate-up-by-46

TLDR, in a city where crime was aggressively prosecuted, with raids, surprise checkpoints and increased surveillance of organized crime, crime decreased 60%. Nationwide it increased 46%. with an emphasis on robberies, murders and rapes.

I can't believe it, but under the circumstances this seems like a really good idea.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

I'm all for stepping up drug raids, if the aim is to capture suspects alive and put them on trial. If they violently resist arrest, then by all means, treat them like any armed and dangerous suspect and shoot to kill.

I'm all for removing and prosecuting public officials and journalists who engage in bribery, collusion and other sorts of corruption.

If the severity of their crimes warrant it, and all due process of law is applied and fair trials are given, then by all means execute them. I'm'm not ideologically opposed to the death penalty.

But fething assassinations? Death squads? That's far too much power for any government to wield, the power to kill its own citizens on a whim without any judicial oversight. The only circumstances in which any criminal should be killed outright before a trial is if they resist arrest, or are known for a fact to be too dangerous to arrest (such as suicide bomber cells). The aim should always be to capture them alive if possible and put them on trial before executing them.

Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

**DutchWinsAll**

I only caught it off John Oliver because, lets be honest, not many people without ties to the Philippines gives two feths about its government, but I'm surprised nobody mentioned his pro-rape stance.

Basically after an Australian woman was raped to death there, he made the comment that it was wrong that the mayor (him) didn't get the first shot. He even then defended the comments.

Though things like that and being "tough on drugs"* do seem to make him the darling of the American Right.

*They do sell alcohol in the Philippines right? How many dealers of that particular poison have been targeted by these death squads?

**oldravenman3025**

Dreadwinter wrote:
=Angel= wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
And I hate to Godwin the thread, but Hitler was a populist leader with the support of his people too.

Hitler was a vegetarian
Hitler loved dogs
Hitler promoted excellent infrastructure that serves Germans well today

Every politician is populist to some extent. You don't get elected without making claims and promises that appeal to a majority.
In this instance, Filipinos seem to have been swayed by his stance on drugs.

dictionary wrote:dictator

noun
a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.
synonyms: autocrat, monocrat, absolute ruler; More
a person who behaves in an autocratic way.
(in ancient Rome) a chief magistrate with absolute power, appointed in an emergency.

None of the above describes what has happened here. People voted in an Authoritarian who advocated violence against criminals.
He's not a dictator until he seizes all power to himself.

I don't personally agree with his stances but I'm not about to 'liberate' the Phillipines and neither is anyone else unless oil is discovered.

One does not have to seize through power to be a Dictator. That is how it usually starts, but of course we know through history that is not always the case. (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini)

He is currently dismissing generals and politicians based on claims of corruption with no trials. He is assassinating journalists and civilians on claims of corruption/illegal behavior with no trial. I mean, how would you describe those actions?

I would describe it as a country where the rot runs to the very core, and requires serious measures to root it out and get rid of it. If the criminal justice system is also rotten with corruption, how the hell do you expect any trial is going to pan out? And do you think that journalists are beyond reproach, and automatically exempt from consequences for illegal activity and corruption, because of their occupation?

I don't think he's a dictator except in the sense of the ancient Roman Republic. There is no indication that he's in it for personal power. He's a hard-ass and a bastard who sees his nation in a de-facto state of emergency, seeing it going downhill, and is doing what he thinks needs to be done, no matter how distasteful. I don't claim that he's a saint. In fact, I think he's one mean SOB. But civilizations and societies survive because of the rough men willing and ready to do violence on their behalf.

In any case, I'm mostly curious on how much he manages to pull off, and whether he does (or does not) let it go to his head (thus proving me wrong).

**Dreadwinter**

In my opinion, it has already gone to his head. As soon as he started calling for assassinations and vigilante death squads, he crossed a serious line. He is judge, jury, and executioner(he does not pull the trigger himself, but he orders it). Without proper trials and investigations, he is able to accuse anybody of corruption and have them killed. You can make the argument that these people are corrupt and many of them probably are given the problems they have. But how many are not? How do we know all of these people are corrupt? Do you deserve to die just for corruption and dealing drugs?

I understand if they are violent gangs attacking the police and citizens, protect your LEOs and citizens. But a guy selling some weed or mushrooms? No way they deserve to be assassinated.

**Jihadin**

Haven't heard of them lining up suspects and shooting them up against a wall. In fact the he handle Davao kind of give advance warning to what drug dealers expect. Same as corrupted officials. So far the Ex Pats there are rooting for him to clean house.

**Spinner**

DutchWinsAll wrote:

Basically after an Australian woman was raped to death there, he made the comment that it was wrong that the mayor (him) didn't get the first shot. He even then defended the comments.

Wait, what -

Holy crap.

Are any of the people supporting him going to defend that?

**Iron_Captain**

oldravenman3025 wrote:
Dreadwinter wrote:
=Angel= wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
And I hate to Godwin the thread, but Hitler was a populist leader with the support of his people too.

Hitler was a vegetarian
Hitler loved dogs
Hitler promoted excellent infrastructure that serves Germans well today

Every politician is populist to some extent. You don't get elected without making claims and promises that appeal to a majority.
In this instance, Filipinos seem to have been swayed by his stance on drugs.

dictionary wrote:dictator

noun
a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.
synonyms: autocrat, monocrat, absolute ruler; More
a person who behaves in an autocratic way.
(in ancient Rome) a chief magistrate with absolute power, appointed in an emergency.

None of the above describes what has happened here. People voted in an Authoritarian who advocated violence against criminals.
He's not a dictator until he seizes all power to himself.

I don't personally agree with his stances but I'm not about to 'liberate' the Phillipines and neither is anyone else unless oil is discovered.

One does not have to seize through power to be a Dictator. That is how it usually starts, but of course we know through history that is not always the case. (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini)

He is currently dismissing generals and politicians based on claims of corruption with no trials. He is assassinating journalists and civilians on claims of corruption/illegal behavior with no trial. I mean, how would you describe those actions?

I would describe it as a country where the rot runs to the very core, and requires serious measures to root it out and get rid of it. If the criminal justice system is also rotten with corruption, how the hell do you expect any trial is going to pan out? And do you think that journalists are beyond reproach, and automatically exempt from consequences for illegal activity and corruption, because of their occupation?

Jihadin wrote:
Haven't heard of them lining up suspects and shooting them up against a wall. In fact the he handle Davao kind of give advance warning to what drug dealers expect. Same as corrupted officials. So far the Ex Pats there are rooting for him to clean house.

Guys, this man has got death squads hunting down street kids. Please stop defending scum like this already.

**Jihadin**

Don't visit the Philippines Iron. There's Death Squads dedicated to killing kids after curfew. Curfew can change without notice.

**oldravenman3025**

Iron_Captain wrote:
oldravenman3025 wrote:
Dreadwinter wrote:
=Angel= wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
And I hate to Godwin the thread, but Hitler was a populist leader with the support of his people too.

Hitler was a vegetarian
Hitler loved dogs
Hitler promoted excellent infrastructure that serves Germans well today

Every politician is populist to some extent. You don't get elected without making claims and promises that appeal to a majority.
In this instance, Filipinos seem to have been swayed by his stance on drugs.

dictionary wrote:dictator

noun
a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.
synonyms: autocrat, monocrat, absolute ruler; More
a person who behaves in an autocratic way.
(in ancient Rome) a chief magistrate with absolute power, appointed in an emergency.

None of the above describes what has happened here. People voted in an Authoritarian who advocated violence against criminals.
He's not a dictator until he seizes all power to himself.

I don't personally agree with his stances but I'm not about to 'liberate' the Phillipines and neither is anyone else unless oil is discovered.

One does not have to seize through power to be a Dictator. That is how it usually starts, but of course we know through history that is not always the case. (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini)

He is currently dismissing generals and politicians based on claims of corruption with no trials. He is assassinating journalists and civilians on claims of corruption/illegal behavior with no trial. I mean, how would you describe those actions?

I would describe it as a country where the rot runs to the very core, and requires serious measures to root it out and get rid of it. If the criminal justice system is also rotten with corruption, how the hell do you expect any trial is going to pan out? And do you think that journalists are beyond reproach, and automatically exempt from consequences for illegal activity and corruption, because of their occupation?

Jihadin wrote:
Haven't heard of them lining up suspects and shooting them up against a wall. In fact the he handle Davao kind of give advance warning to what drug dealers expect. Same as corrupted officials. So far the Ex Pats there are rooting for him to clean house.

Guys, this man has got death squads hunting down street kids. Please stop defending scum like this already.

Scum? That's rich coming from somebody who admires another hated hard-ass who's used murder, backstabbing, and attempted murder to get his point across.

And please dispense with the propaganda-inspired hysteria over the guy. We know he's a hard bastard, makes inappropriate jokes, and lacks decorum. But I'm not buying any bs that comes from Western media sources or RT regarding him or his actions. Sensationalism sell papers and jacks up ratings, after all.

**Silent Puffin?**

oldravenman3025 wrote:
Sensationalism sell papers and jacks up ratings, after all.

Only if the journalist isn't 'corrupt' of course.

**Spinner**

The link I posted is a news source in the Phillipines. There's a recording. He's on camera, talking about a murdered lay missionary who had been gang raped, saying that it was a shame because she was so beautiful that he, the mayor, should have been first. This has been filmed, it's not any kind of spin by 'Western media'.

He tried to play it off as a folksy joke. That's not a folksy joke. People need to step away from the Robocop and Punisher fantasies and take a good, long look at what kind of sociopath this man actually is.

**Dreadwinter**

Well that is clearly corrupt journalism!

*puts fingers in ears and closes eyes* nananananananananananana Not listening! He is the hero we deserve and the hero we need!

/Sarcasm

**Jihadin**

"I would have tapped that."

There's PC and then there's no PC. He has no PC. [...]

But to clarify or throw in some clarity here

On August 13, 1989, 16 convicts including leaders Pugoy and Mohammad Nazir Samparani, a former sergeant from the Philippine Air Force who was dismissed from service in a 1976 hostage crisis, took 15 members of the Joyful Assembly of God as hostage. All but one of the convicts were part of the Wild Boys of DaPeCol. The Protestant group had conducted a prayer service at the prison shortly before being taken hostage.[1][7][8]

The Wild Boys took the hostages to protest against prison conditions and demanded to speak with Congressman Ramon Mitra and Senator Nina Rasul. Both politicians declined the demand saying that the crisis must be dealt with by the military negotiators.[8]

By August 15, the inmates reportedly surrendered after being promised to be transferred to a prison in Manila. Gunshots were fired as inmates crossed a chain-link fence along with the hostages. Some hostages were able to escape as the rest were dragged back into prison.[8] According to one of the escaped hostages, nine of the hostages including the Australian missionary, Jacqueline Hamill, were raped by the inmates.[7] This led the military to storm into the prison later that day after the hostage takers still refused to cooperate.[8]

The hostage crisis was resolved by a combined police-military intervention which was able to rescue 10 hostages. The end of the crisis saw the deaths of 5 hostages including Hamill as well as all 16 hostage takers.[1][7] It is unclear if the five deaths among the hostages were the result of the intervention or caused by the inmates.[9]

Edit

[... redactions at Jihadin's request.]

**Spinner**

Gosh, you know, I don't think I've ever said that over the memory of a murdered gang rape victim. Weird, right?

That's not dark humor any more than folksy humor, and it doesn't get a pass by talking about PC.

**Jihadin**

[... redactions at Jihadin's request.]

So next time Kim executes someone with a execution from his deck of "How to die" I will laugh OUT LOUD
Next time we (US) opt out a Taliban/AQ/ISIS leader I will laugh OUT LOUD

Might as well put me on ignore Spinner because I will have dark humor

**Ouze**

I like this new trend of accepting someone acting like a sociopath by brushing it off as "dark humor", "not being PC", and "just saying what we all were thinking".