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Hello. This is my first post, although I was reading these forums for quite some time. As to my question: I am reading The Beast arises serie. There it is stated that Rogal Dorn is already dead at the time when the events of the serie are happening. I am not sure what is canon for Dorn's death from other sources and when and under which conditions he was supposed to die but I assume that his death at this time is in agreement with his death and absence in other books. However, in the latest book Hunt for Vulkan there is this paragraph (obvious spoiler alert, so beware):

"Vulkan looked at Koorland. ‘Fight well, son of Dorn,’ he said. ‘Your actions honour his name, and I will tell him so.’ He stepped out of the door before Koorland could ask him what he meant. "

Could this mean that Dorn is actually alive and just hiding somewhere, pretty much like Vulkan himself?
Also offtopic - it is nice to hear from Vulkan himself that he plans to return in the endtimes to save the day.

Just like the rest of GW canon, we can neither confirm nor deny the death of Rogal Dorn at the hands of the World Eaters.

Like Russ, vulkan, and the lion. There all Missing in action..
There not dead or alive.

Only confiremed dead is ferrus and sang.

If he is, he is missing both his hands I think or atleast one.

Vojcek wrote:
Hello. This is my first post, although I was reading these forums for quite some time. As to my question: I am reading The Beast arises serie. There it is stated that Rogal Dorn is already dead at the time when the events of the serie are happening. I am not sure what is canon for Dorn's death from other sources and when and under which conditions he was supposed to die but I assume that his death at this time is in agreement with his death and absence in other books. However, in the latest book Hunt for Vulkan there is this paragraph (obvious spoiler alert, so beware):

"Vulkan looked at Koorland. ‘Fight well, son of Dorn,’ he said. ‘Your actions honour his name, and I will tell him so.’ He stepped out of the door before Koorland could ask him what he meant. "

Could this mean that Dorn is actually alive and just hiding somewhere, pretty much like Vulkan himself?
Also offtopic - it is nice to hear from Vulkan himself that he plans to return in the endtimes to save the day.

Dorn dies some time post-Heresy, during a boarding action of a Chaos frigate. His hand has been recovered, and the skeletal remains are kept by the Imperial Fists.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rogal_Dorn

Lion is very much alive and sleeping within the Rock, though only the Watchers in the Dark know this...

I think many, if not all of the unconfirmed "dead" Primarchs will return for the End-Times.

SPOILERS:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
SPOILERS:

Spoiler:

I think that the new book from the "Beast Arises" series hints that Dorn might be alive. This revelation comes from the mouth of Vulkan, so it can be true... or maybe not, who knows.

vulkan could easily be meeing he would tell Dorn when he himself dies and he sees him in the after life. Not an unusual trope to use.

Common thinking is that he is dead following a boarding action during (iirc) one of the Black Crusades, his hands were recovered either close to the time or shortly after. Given that his body hasnt been found its not confirmed that he is dead but as usual in the setting rumour persists

TheWanderer wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
SPOILERS:

Spoiler:

I think that the new book from the "Beast Arises" series hints that Dorn might be alive. This revelation comes from the mouth of Vulkan, so it can be true... or maybe not, who knows.

vulkan could easily be meeing he would tell Dorn when he himself dies and he sees him in the after life. Not an unusual trope to use.

Common thinking is that he is dead following a boarding action during (iirc) one of the Black Crusades, his hands were recovered either close to the time or shortly after. Given that his body hasnt been found its not confirmed that he is dead but as usual in the setting rumour persists

So Abaddon ripped Dorn's arms off first?

beast_gts wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
SPOILERS:

Spoiler:

I think that the new book from the "Beast Arises" series hints that Dorn might be alive. This revelation comes from the mouth of Vulkan, so it can be true... or maybe not, who knows.

vulkan could easily be meeing he would tell Dorn when he himself dies and he sees him in the after life. Not an unusual trope to use.

Common thinking is that he is dead following a boarding action during (iirc) one of the Black Crusades, his hands were recovered either close to the time or shortly after. Given that his body hasnt been found its not confirmed that he is dead but as usual in the setting rumour persists

So Abaddon ripped Dorn's arms off first?

I hope not. Playing up Abby as a Primarch tier badass is one of the reasons, that I don't like ADB as much as I used to.

Anyway, didn't he lose just one hand? Not an entire arm, just a hand? I can imagine that for a Primarch that's not a huge deal, especially with prosthetics.

 Xathrodox86 wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
SPOILERS:

Spoiler:

I think that the new book from the "Beast Arises" series hints that Dorn might be alive. This revelation comes from the mouth of Vulkan, so it can be true... or maybe not, who knows.

vulkan could easily be meeing he would tell Dorn when he himself dies and he sees him in the after life. Not an unusual trope to use.

Common thinking is that he is dead following a boarding action during (iirc) one of the Black Crusades, his hands were recovered either close to the time or shortly after. Given that his body hasnt been found its not confirmed that he is dead but as usual in the setting rumour persists

So Abaddon ripped Dorn's arms off first?

I hope not. Playing up Abby as a Primarch tier badass is one of the reasons, that I don't like ADB as much as I used to.

Anyway, didn't he lose just one hand? Not an entire arm, just a hand? I can imagine that for a Primarch that's not a huge deal, especially with prosthetics.

hands only, but to be honest it was probably a throw back to some kind of creation idea for the name of the "Imperial Fists" you know, some writer back in the 80s was challeneged to come up with the names of each legion and the primarches and why they were what they were and he got to them and went "errrrr, becuase their primarch got lost and all that was left was his fists??"

Seems like it can be true. Typical Rogue Trader era shenanigans.

Rogue Trader era (Well, Space Marine by Ian Watson, so same thing) - the Fists had Dorn's entire skeleton, except the hands, encased in amber. As one of their rituals they shaved some of the amber off to dissolve into a drink.

They also had his hands, kept in boxes, with the names of the chapter masters engraved into them.

It was stated that after the Horus Heresy, Dorn continued to fight for 600 years.

Of course, this has been pretty much reconned in its entirety, but still nice to know.

I can't remember which of the Fantasy Flight gaming products (maybe it was a Rogue Trader or a Deathwatch book)...

..but there was a Quote by Rogal Dorn which was dated to the 40th Millenium....

Correct me if im wrong, but didnt traitors destroy the corpse of ferrus manus with nothing left?
Wouldnt it be odd than that when Dorn died, his firsts, somthing that can be a trophy, where recovered?

 Xathrodox86 wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
SPOILERS:

Spoiler:

I think that the new book from the "Beast Arises" series hints that Dorn might be alive. This revelation comes from the mouth of Vulkan, so it can be true... or maybe not, who knows.

vulkan could easily be meeing he would tell Dorn when he himself dies and he sees him in the after life. Not an unusual trope to use.

Common thinking is that he is dead following a boarding action during (iirc) one of the Black Crusades, his hands were recovered either close to the time or shortly after. Given that his body hasnt been found its not confirmed that he is dead but as usual in the setting rumour persists

So Abaddon ripped Dorn's arms off first?

I hope not. Playing up Abby as a Primarch tier badass is one of the reasons, that I don't like ADB as much as I used to.

ADB is hardly responsable for that. one of the most consistant bits of lore about Abbaddon is that he killed a Horus Clone.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
SPOILERS:

Spoiler:

I think that the new book from the "Beast Arises" series hints that Dorn might be alive. This revelation comes from the mouth of Vulkan, so it can be true... or maybe not, who knows.

vulkan could easily be meeing he would tell Dorn when he himself dies and he sees him in the after life. Not an unusual trope to use.

Common thinking is that he is dead following a boarding action during (iirc) one of the Black Crusades, his hands were recovered either close to the time or shortly after. Given that his body hasnt been found its not confirmed that he is dead but as usual in the setting rumour persists

So Abaddon ripped Dorn's arms off first?

I hope not. Playing up Abby as a Primarch tier badass is one of the reasons, that I don't like ADB as much as I used to.

ADB is hardly responsable for that. one of the most consistant bits of lore about Abbaddon is that he killed a Horus Clone.

Are you sure about that? I always remember the wording to more that he had a Horus clone destroyed not that he personally killed a Horus clone.

More he burnt down the lab it was grown in than he stabbed it to death

GrapeApe wrote:I can't remember which of the Fantasy Flight gaming products (maybe it was a Rogue Trader or a Deathwatch book)...

..but there was a Quote by Rogal Dorn which was dated to the 40th Millenium....

GrapeApe wrote:I can't remember which of the Fantasy Flight gaming products (maybe it was a Rogue Trader or a Deathwatch book)...

..but there was a Quote by Rogal Dorn which was dated to the 40th Millenium....

It was in the Deathwatch rulebook. Gives me hope everyday.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
SPOILERS:

Spoiler:

I think that the new book from the "Beast Arises" series hints that Dorn might be alive. This revelation comes from the mouth of Vulkan, so it can be true... or maybe not, who knows.

vulkan could easily be meeing he would tell Dorn when he himself dies and he sees him in the after life. Not an unusual trope to use.

Common thinking is that he is dead following a boarding action during (iirc) one of the Black Crusades, his hands were recovered either close to the time or shortly after. Given that his body hasnt been found its not confirmed that he is dead but as usual in the setting rumour persists

So Abaddon ripped Dorn's arms off first?

I hope not. Playing up Abby as a Primarch tier badass is one of the reasons, that I don't like ADB as much as I used to.

ADB is hardly responsable for that. one of the most consistant bits of lore about Abbaddon is that he killed a Horus Clone.

Exactly, a soulless clone, nowhere near the original, not to mention the "After Molech" original. I didn't mind that actually, since it was a real highlight of the "Talon of Horus".

I think that he could be. it'd be quite awesome to have him around during the next campaign or something, maybe like he got dragged into the warp or something and only his hand was left behind.

hell, maybe he becomes a Legion of the damned character during the end times

TheWanderer wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
SPOILERS:

Spoiler:

I think that the new book from the "Beast Arises" series hints that Dorn might be alive. This revelation comes from the mouth of Vulkan, so it can be true... or maybe not, who knows.

vulkan could easily be meeing he would tell Dorn when he himself dies and he sees him in the after life. Not an unusual trope to use.

Common thinking is that he is dead following a boarding action during (iirc) one of the Black Crusades, his hands were recovered either close to the time or shortly after. Given that his body hasnt been found its not confirmed that he is dead but as usual in the setting rumour persists

So Abaddon ripped Dorn's arms off first?

I hope not. Playing up Abby as a Primarch tier badass is one of the reasons, that I don't like ADB as much as I used to.

ADB is hardly responsable for that. one of the most consistant bits of lore about Abbaddon is that he killed a Horus Clone.

Are you sure about that? I always remember the wording to more that he had a Horus clone destroyed not that he personally killed a Horus clone.

More he burnt down the lab it was grown in than he stabbed it to death

from the Black Legion Supplement... "When Abbaddon finally slew the prime clon e and destroyed Fabius' Laboratory"
(the supplement was originally published a good year in advance of Talon so likely represents best the current thinking of GW before it was written)

the supplement also relates "destroying ghoulish copies" of it, so over all, the impression I got was much what ADB went with, that there where a number of failed clones destroyed in their test tubes, followed by 1 reasonably decent clone (proably not quite perfect but close) that was personally slain by Abbaddon.

the word Slain tends to imply it wasn't just a lump of horus shaped flesh in a test tube

Wasn't there some mention in the Necron codex that the Lord that is a collector has an immense man in golden armor held in stasis as a trophy? I though lots of people thought that could be Dorn?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Wasn't there some mention in the Necron codex that the Lord that is a collector has an immense man in golden armor held in stasis as a trophy? I though lots of people thought that could be Dorn?

It's far more likely to just be some Space Marine rather than a Primarch.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Wasn't there some mention in the Necron codex that the Lord that is a collector has an immense man in golden armor held in stasis as a trophy? I though lots of people thought that could be Dorn?

Giant man in baroque armour. Can't remember if it says it's baroque power armour. Either way leaves a whole lot of possibilities.

I like the idea that Abaddon killed Dorn. Not personally, but using his Black Legion / Fleet / Crusades.

As an aside, I'm not really sure where the Failbaddon meme came from, considering even in the 2nd ed Codex where he was introduced there is a narrative that his crusades are building up to a final 'big push' crusade.

nareik wrote:
I like the idea that Abaddon killed Dorn. Not personally, but using his Black Legion / Fleet / Crusades.

As an aside, I'm not really sure where the Failbaddon meme came from, considering even in the 2nd ed Codex where he was introduced there is a narrative that his crusades are building up to a final 'big push' crusade.

True enough, but the character wasn't really shown as anything other than an incompetent moron for most of the editions. The fact that they're now trying to desperately push him as some sort of Primarch-slaying, Gods-denying, misunderstood badass is... weak. Almost as weak, as the "Chaos did nothing wrong" weak.

 Xathrodox86 wrote:

nareik wrote:
I like the idea that Abaddon killed Dorn. Not personally, but using his Black Legion / Fleet / Crusades.

As an aside, I'm not really sure where the Failbaddon meme came from, considering even in the 2nd ed Codex where he was introduced there is a narrative that his crusades are building up to a final 'big push' crusade.

True enough, but the character wasn't really shown as anything other than an incompetent moron for most of the editions. The fact that they're now trying to desperately push him as some sort of Primarch-slaying, Gods-denying, misunderstood badass is... weak. Almost as weak, as the "Chaos did nothing wrong" weak.

What editions that was then? 2nd and 3rd nope. Don't recall 4th/5th fluff that much. 6th/7th nope.

Dorn is hiding in an imperial fist centurion suit in the Emperor's palace (totally not fluff, but funny web series to note "if the emperor had a test to speech device"

Papa banana is probably dead.
Perturabo still lives.
We have won!

 jhe90 wrote:
Like Russ, vulkan, and the lion. There all Missing in action..
There not dead or alive.

Only confiremed dead is ferrus and sang.

Fan fic/head canon, Cypher is actually the lion o.O

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Like Russ, vulkan, and the lion. There all Missing in action..
There not dead or alive.

Only confiremed dead is ferrus and sang.

Fan fic/head canon, Cypher is actually the lion o.O

Given that Cypher was an office and that even space marines have a limited lifespan (albeit a very logn one) it is likely Cypher has been passed to new agens several times or as you pointed out it would need to be somebody who was either a perpetual or a Primarch (knowing that he is human, could also be an Eldar farseer in makeup, or a bored Harliquin trolling humanity for the lulz which would explain a lot actually)