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I've been suffering loss after loss against my friends Tau and was wondering how I could better build my Ork army to beat him

I have;

HQ

2 Warbosses
1 Big Mek
1 Painboy

Troops

60 Ork boyz 30/30 breakup between shoota and slugga
a min size grot squad

Elites

10 Ork Nobz 4w BC, 3 with PK, 2 with Kombi Scorcha 1x with Kombi Rokkit
3x Mega Nobz 2x with PK and kombi scorcha and 1x with kill saw
4x burna boyz and a few meks
8x Tank Bustas

Fast Attack

1x Warbuggy with TL Rokkits
a min sized squad of Storm Boyz with a nob with a PK
1x Trukk

Heavy Support

7x Killa Kanz 2x Grotzookas 2x Rokkits 2x big shootas 1x scorcha
1x Deff Dread with 3x PK and 1x Scorcha
1x Gorkanaut
6x Mek Gunz 3x KMK 2x Kannon 1x Lobba
1x Looted Wagon


Planning on acquiring a Battle Wagon soon

But what else can I add or rearrange in order to beat his Tau

I generally use the Megas as a Manz missile in the trukk, and use them and the buggy to go rocketing ahead to distract fire and the boyz mobs and the Deff Dread and Gork acting as heavies/distraction carnifexs for the blobs with a battery of mek gunz generally just the KMKs acting as fire support.

My problem is, is that I just lose to many boyz and my small numbers of fast units just get shot to hell by his Riptide and Broadside.

What models do your friends play usually?

If they are going full cheese then just ask them to tone down their lists, you can't do much with orks otherwise.

Its a losing battle.

You want speed, and shootiness.

Speed to get into combat and take objectives.

Shootiness to whittle down his army and minimise the return fire. Ork shooty units can beat Tau in assault, but Ork choppy units give Tau players a couple of turns of full shooting with no damage taken as they run across the board. At this point its down to luck.

Just what ive learned with my games against Tau.

Try this list or a varient thereof.
Ghaz
Maddoc
3 nobz w banner
Bigmek w megaarmour and kff (but the mff is tempting for Lukky stikk warboss and protecting the battlewagon especially vs tau)
Warboss in mega armour with Lukky stick
Warboss in mega armour
Battlewagon with killkannon and 2x rokkit and ram

Warboss in mega armour
4nobz in mega armour
Mek
Trukk w rocket and ram
Or
Warboss on bike with klaw
3 nobz on bike 2 with klaws
And put the Mek in the boy blob running behind the battlewagon.

Gretchin
5x 10boyz upgrade one to nob with klaw
11 boyz (use as screen to take casualties first)

It's an orcurion and tau have issues with av14 especially with a 5+ invul save.
Once the ghaz unit is in charge range of the tau gunline almost no amount of shooting is going to get through 2+ rerollable armour saves with 5+ invul rerollable and 5+ fnp and ghaz with 2+ invul and 5+ fnp.
It's going to chew through tau but it is still only one unit.

The mass of boyz with klaws can help but they are going to die to heavy shooting. I also realize you lack both the mega nobs or bikers for the nobz so you can try basic eavy armour nobs with klaws and upgrade the kff to mff, but that's a big downgrade in survivability and you are very close to making this list and even if you lose its a very fun list to play because ghaz just smashed face against everything you can throw at him.
Here is a blog site who played a similar
http://www.da40korks.com/2016/06/taking-ork-decurion-to-itc-event.html?m=1

He uses a Iridium Suit Commander with a missile pod, the air bursting frag projector and the CIB. He swaps the support system around.
1 Etheral

1 squad of regular fire warriors 12 strong, with a devilfish and two drones one marker and one gun
1 squad of breacher team fire warriors 12 strong with the turret with a markerlight drone.

a squad of two piranhas
a full squad of pathfinders with two ion Rifles and 1 Rail rifle

1x Riptide with HBC, TL plasma guns and a stim injector
3x crisis suits with with fusion blasters, plasma guns and one with a MP instead of the Fusion Gun. Support systems vary
3x Stealth suits. 1 markerlight drone

1x Broadside, HYMP and SMS with 2 drones one Shield Drone one Marker light

On the way is a hammerhead and a ghostkeel.

Excellent discussion.
I own dark angels and orks.

Now i know what cheese i am facing at 1000pts.
Let me list
Commander
3 firewarriors a 5 men
3 riptide
1 pathfinder a 6 men
2 broadside

What for dark angels and orks would work and how to play?

Pls help me with this

Use a blitz brigade to bring your orks in close when facing Tau. Lobbas will punish any Tau grouping too close in the back field. Lootas will be needed and should spend their time shooting marker lights. Eadwhoppa Warboss is good against MC/GMC and apparently a walker with 2 pilots counts as such. 3 Manz in a trukk will still make its points here. If he's not using the limited options for anti air then it's time to bring out the planes. Oh if that's a Tau flyer I see then 2-3 Traktor Kannons will take care of it. Most likely only need to hit it once. Group the Traktors with other guns like KMKS so that it's not a completely dead slot when air is clear of enemy planes. They can still snap shoot ground targets and act as a meatshield for the rest of the unit.

Final note: Marker Lights Are Priority.

Put all your orks in a bag, then swing them at the tau to "beat" them.

Wait 12dudes and 2 drones in 1 devil fish? i recall the transport cap is 12 with no rules excluding the drones (i might be wrong.)

xxx4xxx wrote:
Excellent discussion.
I own dark angels and orks.

Now i know what cheese i am facing at 1000pts.
Let me list
Commander
3 firewarriors a 5 men
3 riptide
1 pathfinder a 6 men
2 broadside

What for dark angels and orks would work and how to play?

Pls help me with this

That is some serious cheese for 1000pts. I mean 3 riptides! That is the meat of what you are up against those 3 riptides. I'd say that looks like a hunter cadre, so overwatch will be brutal. If there is a drone squad in there then that would be a hunter continent to boot in which case he has combined firepower for free BS buffs too for reduced markerlight dependancy. Mate against this hard cheddar don't even think about playing nice. If you want to push his gak in then you will have to not even bother with any formations or detachments because none of the formations you can use will really help you more than they hamstrung you with useless taxes, so go unbound. You want about a half a dozen warbosses with pk on bikes with half a dozen painboz on bikes with deffkopters for whatever points are left and drill them all into the riptides as fast as you can. Suicide a deffkopter into his overwatch before slammimg 2 biker warbosses + 2 painboyz into each riptide. Painboyz got poisoned attacks and warboss has got pk at strength 10, they are fast, jinky and deal out the pain in melee even against riptides. That said most wounds inflicted will be saved so the fight will drag on for ages but that is okay as long as the riptides ain't shootin. Remaining deffkopters or nob bikes can charge into every thing else in the meantime. With only one pathfinder squad he can only light up one unit per turn for ignore cover, maybe two if his commander has marker drones but with full MSU biker jinking nonsense that won't help him much before you have closed the distance.

If he complains that unbound is not fair.. just say "1, 2, 3 riptides".

Yes. well.. i still dont know ork enough to tell how to handle this gak.
but with the dark angels i might have found a solution.
Sniper Spam. 5 sniper cost 60 and do 2 wounds.
5x10mensquads, splittet with combat squat ability puts 10 targets on the table which would kill all three riptides on turn one if i start.
then a libby on a bike and a bikesquad with speeder and another bikesquad with attack bike and speeder... one to take care of a broadside with mind worm and grav and bolter fire, the other one to get rid of the pathfinder.
i rolled some dice to see where this is going and i am pleased so far... except for i dont have a plan b if i go second.. that would be devastating

Well, depending on your mission format, you could run:

Demi-Company w/Company Master
Demi-Company w/Chaplain
10th Company Support

That gets you 10x free Razorbacks, which will take care of the Tau infantry, score objectives like crazy, and really take the edge off the Riptide offense.

It's a bit of a jerky list but hey, I guess that's your meta...

I will try it this way,

+++ Gravbikes (1000pts) +++

++ Dark Angels: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Librarian
··Power Armour [Combi-Grav, Force Sword, Space Marine Bike]
··Psyker [Level 2]

Librarian
··Power Armour [Combi-Grav, Force Sword, Space Marine Bike]
··Psyker [Level 2]

+ Fast Attack +

Ravenwing Bike Squad [2x Grav Gun, 2x Ravenwing Biker]
··Ravenwing Attack Bike [Heavy Bolter]
··Ravenwing Sergeant [Combi-Grav]

Ravenwing Bike Squad [2x Grav Gun, 2x Ravenwing Biker]
··Ravenwing Attack Bike [Heavy Bolter]
··Ravenwing Sergeant [Combi-Grav]

Ravenwing Bike Squad [2x Grav Gun, 2x Ravenwing Biker]
··Ravenwing Attack Bike [Heavy Bolter]
··Ravenwing Sergeant [Combi-Grav]

Ravenwing Bike Squad [2x Grav Gun, 2x Ravenwing Biker]
··Ravenwing Sergeant [Combi-Grav]

Ravenwing Land Speeders
··Ravenwing Land Speeder [Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter]

Ravenwing Land Speeders
··Ravenwing Land Speeder [Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter]

Ravenwing Land Speeders
··Ravenwing Land Speeder [Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter]

Against Tau, the best you can do is have a board that is full of terrain to help cut down their incredibly potent shooting. So your units can traverse the board without getting obliterated before they even get halfway across.

Also, speed is your friend. Speed and armor. If he isn't running a lot of Ap4, you could invest in some 'Ard Armor for a squad of Boyz (expensive but will make them survive a lot longer, especially against Mob Rule wounds).

Otherwise you could invest in some Battle Wagons to escort the Boyz around and lower them to 20 model squads instead.

Biker Boyz will also be VERY useful as they can survive most Tau gunfire if they aren't loaded with Ap 4 or lower, can Jink if they DO have Ap 4 or lower, and can put out a lot of mid strength shots with their bike mounted weapons...or can rush into assault quite quickly.

I'd honestly get rid of the normal Nobz and Burna Boyz. Invest those points either into more Mega Nobz (With Trukks to get them around faster, or they'll just get picked off) or invest in Bikes instead of Mega Nobz all together.

You've just got to be fast and durable, which Orks CAN do to an extent. Play to the objectives as much as possible as well.

3 riptides is definetely too much cheese. Just go full deathstar with invisibility, 2+ rerollable armor and cover. Against that DA list tau can only play objectives, they can't touch your models and have 1 turn of fire before being removed from the board.

Playing that at 1000 points is incredibly unfair, so you may want to punch yourself after the game,

There are 2 approaches to this

1) its uphill you are doomed, don't even try

2) forget 1 ask the plater to be nice and tone down his list and bring your best.

The things that could really help you are Deffkopta's. Not in theiir classical vehicle eating way. They kinda suck at that now, they have an other role now. Their first role is fast objective grabber. Those things are jet bikes and will be the fastest unit on the board and they could actually hide behind line of sight if you use GW's ruins. This is really useful. The second use for them is to eat overwatch. Managing overwatch is one of the things you will need to do in order to survive against tau. Never charge with one unit alone into the target always charge in with at least one sacrificial overwatch decoy the fast and cheap deffkopta is perfect for this.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
Try this list or a varient thereof.
Ghaz etc...

Donn't try that unless you really like it. The Ghazcurion / Crapcurion it is even less point efficient then your regular orks due to the council of th waaagh tax that Tau have no issues on evaporating with only a small portion of their army.

The ghazcurion is the models he has and tau defintely have issues killing off a 2+ rerollable and 4++ vs shooting rerollable Death Star.
Have you even played the ghaz star I even linked other tournament play reports showing how well it works.

I only have the models listed in the first post but am saving for a Battlewagon. more Mega Nobz are also in my get next list but I am strapped for cash at this point. I am a prolific scratch builder and if I have materials I will produce orky vehicles of war. Also thanks guys I will be incorporating these new tactics into beating those communist anime fan scum

One list I saw at my FLGS that sometimes gets results against Tau is Speed Freakz. Race as fast as they could in all the trukks and battle wagons to reach the Tau (hopefully).

If the Orks somehow survived the trip, then they could do some damage.

It wasn't perfect but It seems to work.

A couple things I have learned in fighting Tau:

use the Lootas to shoot the Drones dead.

Use the Bikes to bum rush them. with Night Fighting in effect especially turn one (50% of the time), the Bikes are very hard to hit and they are enough to take out a Tau gunlines center or wrap up the Riptide with the Power klaw nob leading them.

the bikers also shoot very well, surprisingly well so softening the target up for the charge is something they can do.

Use the trukksas physical barricades. Move them up as far as they will go and run the boys as fast as they can go behind them. use the terrain with the trucks to form a wall that allows the orks to advance relatively unscathed. You cant stop every shot but it will definitely help and exploding trukks arent something you wantto be in when it happens so runing behind them is preferable.

Also I use Kommandos with Snikrot to buy the rest of my orks more time. Bikes to the front, snikrot to the rear buys me time for the horde.

Anywho that is how I beat up on the last battle Company I played.

My list was roughly this:
Shock attack gun guy (ammo runts)
3x27 boyz with rockits
3 units of grots
three trucks (aka mobile barricades)
Blitza bomba
two small units of lootas (6 or 7 each)
10 Bikers
10 Meganobz
Kommandos and Snikrot

I think that was about it. Going off memory here.

Tabled the battle company doing it and it seems like it would do well against Tau. pretty fun. The bikers really impressed. So did the blitza Bomba

Bikers are awesome especially zhardsnark which has skilled rider however tau are the most adept army at dealing with bikes as they can ignore cover and a bikes 2+/3+ night fighting, turbo boosting jink save. Tau lack str9/10 weapons so have a hard time dealing with av13/14. They also don't have a ton of ap2 range wpns.

The best Ork list is bike star and bullyboyz however the Op doesn't have those minis. I really think his best bet is a ghazcurion based on what he has since even tau can not shoot to death a 2+ rerollable/4++ vs shooting rerollable with 5+ fnp assault squad.

Actually riptides aren't so tough, no space marine player with half a brain should have any problem with them because the SM player has the very best weapon for rapidly and cheaply dispatching riptides: Bike libby with telepathy for Psychic Shriek and a force axe costs just 85 points (lol) and can potentially solo a riptide or even two in a single turn with very little finesse. Tau are very weak against psychic shenanigans whereas SMs have all the goodies, Tau will not likely be able to stop either Force (to give the libbies force axe Instant Death) or stop Psychic Shriek from going off. The bike gives the libby the mobility to get into cc as soon as possible and in psychic shriek range. When in close combat with the riptide the libby with Force on his Force Axe is hitting on 3+, wounding on 5+ then ignoring the riptides 2+ armour and ignoring its FNP (if it bought the stim injectors) leaving it with only a 5+ invul or 3+ if it wants to risk wounding itself using the nova charge to prevent it dying outright to Instant Death. The libby only has to get one wound on it to kill it. Put in him a cheap scout bike squad for look out sir meatshields and to give him scout & infiltrate so that he can easily be in range to get off psychic shriek then turbo-boost into a position out of LOS of pathfinders and riptides whilst still being close enough to to get a charge off on his next turn.

Tau overwatch is potentially strong but can be foiled by sending in a throw away unit first (presumably another scout bike unit).

"Actually riptides aren't so tough"

Do you play against brain dead Tau players? They use ignore cover AP2 templates that double out your libbies to evaporate them before they can use their short-range abilities. The force axe is useless when your libby died on their shooting phase.

On a bike you'd need S10 to cause instant death to a librarian. However, the point is still a good one - the librarian will struggle to get close (charging through supporting fire is going to be tough) but at the same time, a bike move & turboboost means he can get close, fast.

I'd concur that fast moving stuff is good - although there'd be something to be said for battlewagons - AV14 is something Tau don't like because relatively few tau players pack railguns and haywire isn't an option.

The Boyz are, ultimately, the weak spot. No amount of investment will allow basic ork boyz to survive crossing no-man's land towards a tau gunline. Fast moving units are key.

 SolarCross wrote:
Actually riptides aren't so tough, no space marine player with half a brain should have any problem with them because ...

Eh...no.

Martel732 wrote:
"Actually riptides aren't so tough"

Do you play against brain dead Tau players? They use ignore cover AP2 templates that double out your libbies to evaporate them before they can use their short-range abilities. The force axe is useless when your libby died on their shooting phase.

Right Tau are not completely defenceless, bummer, with their weapons and markerlights they are god-tier shooters, even if they are bottom tier at everything else (except mobility). So you need to survive at least one turn of shooting before getting into cc. So keep out of LOS of their markerlights so you can keep your cover save? Shoot up their marker light source using another unit? Even if it doesn't kill the markerlights it will at least make itself a threat that will attract their fire away from the libbies. You could buy that relic for your libby that gives a one time 2+ invul. There are options. Ok so it isn't a matter of buy libby on bike = autowin, should it be?

If you are only paying 85pts for a riptide killer then you can afford to buy more riptide killers and also a ton of other units to support them.

So orks have a bad name at the moment, but only because the internet is lazy.

Go all in on speed trukk list concept. The dirty secret about Tau is they are horrendous against massive msu.

Look at how kdk players win, same thing just take it up a notch since you have no invuln or blood tithe.

Every squad and truk should have missiles and a claw on a nob.
++ Orks: Codex (2014) (Ork Horde Detachment) (1849pts) ++

+ No Force Org Slot (45pts) +

Mek (45pts) [Killsaw (30pts), Mek's Tools, Slugga, Stikkbombs]

+ HQ (237pts) +

Big Mek (89pts) ['Eavy Armour (4pts), Bosspole (5pts), Gift: Da Fixer Upperz (15pts), HQ, Killsaw (30pts), Mek's Tools, Slugga, Stikkbombs]

Big Mek (74pts) ['Eavy Armour (4pts), Bosspole (5pts), HQ, Killsaw (30pts), Mek's Tools, Slugga, Stikkbombs]

Big Mek (74pts) ['Eavy Armour (4pts), Bosspole (5pts), HQ, Killsaw (30pts), Mek's Tools, Slugga, Stikkbombs]


+ Troops (1252pts) +

8x Boyz with a trukk with rockit, boarding blanks, klaw, and boss pole.

+ Fast Attack (90pts) +

3x Deffkoptas (90pts) with rockits


+ Lords of War (225pts) +

Ghazghkull Thraka, the Beast of Armageddon (225pts)

 sfshilo wrote:

Go all in on speed trukk list concept. The dirty secret about Tau is they are horrendous against massive msu.

I'm no ork expert but I think this is the right answer.

You could alternately use the ork warband without ghaz for the same effect and pair it with another formation or detachment.

They also don't have many options for dealing with high AV. Send in a scouting blitz brigade formation screening bullyboyz in trukks.

 sfshilo wrote:
You could alternately use the ork warband without ghaz for the same effect and pair it with another formation or detachment.

You're better off with a cad or two. It's more flexible and has better rules.