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So what is the opinion on Tactical squad sizes? I like to run 10 man squads in a Rhino but people have been swearing up and down about 20 man blobs on foot. My issue there is the lack of speed.

So thoughts?

IDK about 30k, but in 40k I always run 10 mans in rhinos. Mobility is good.

If you are using a rhino, ten obviously.

If you are on foot, either 15 or 20 depending on how you roll. You can also give them an apothecary to make them even harder to kill.

People always say that tactical squads are good in 30k, but I'm not seeing it with mine.

As you saw when we played, I had a blob of 20, you deep struck more than a foot away from them, they fury of the legion'd you, then you charged, and wiped them out. They def didn't kill their 265 points back.

And I feel like that's their best use! Protect your backfield against deep strikers! I've also kept them in reserve, just to waltz onto the field a few turns in, cap a point and hold it for the game, without taking or firing a shot. Not awful, but paying 265 points for that is a bit excessive. And another game where a single scorpius volley killed 17 of em, leaving three to survive and gradually saunter across the battlefield to score me a linebreaker point, purely by virtue of not drawing a single other shot. That's been my experience with the footslogging blob of 20. Super underwhelming, especially compared to my assault marines / scout armored recon marines, which are generally considered sub-par troops.

On of my fall projects is to do a 10 man recon squad in mk v armor with shotguns (I just think they'd look brutal), in a rhino with an assault cannon. Kind of an expensive squad, but they miiiiight be good. If they are, then I might build up a tactical squad with close combat weapons to stick in a rhino as well.

Also depends on what special rules they have.

20 alpha legion dudes on foot mutably infiltrating in takes care of most speed issues.

 Glitcha wrote:
IDK about 30k, but in 40k I always run 10 mans in rhinos. Mobility is good.

^This. I only play 30k using AdeptiCon rules, which includes their version of Maelstrom/Eternal War mix. Mobility with your only (most of the time) scoring unit is muy importante.

I run 20 man squads as much as I am able. Sure, they do not kill as much as my Contemptor Mortis, but they stick around, sit on objectives, and hold the damn line.

My Tacticals once got assaulted by a squad of Dark Furies. Normally that would be bad for the Tacticals, but the Dark Furies whiffed their crucial first round of attacks and ate a boatload of attacks in return, which ended poorly for them. I like my Tacticals because they are generalists; they can contribute pot shots from range, they have strong short-range burst damage, they fight entirely decently in melee (Dark Channelling yay) and have respectable staying power through numbers, Apothecaries and use of cover. With WB morale buffs they do not run easily either.

Initially I ran them cheap - no Dark Channelling or extra CCWs - but that soon changed. It is worth it.

 kronk wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:
IDK about 30k, but in 40k I always run 10 mans in rhinos. Mobility is good.

^This. I only play 30k using AdeptiCon rules, which includes their version of Maelstrom/Eternal War mix. Mobility with your only (most of the time) scoring unit is muy importante.

I run 3 squads of ten with extra CC weapons in Rhinos at 2000 points. With SoH/Luna Wolves rules I want as many units in close combat together and with BS 5 at rapid fire range it's brutal.

My imperial Fists also enjoy improved bolter shooting. I just keep them at 10 dudes in a rhino so that I can be mobile.

I like facing 20 man tactical squads on foot, especially if they're in cover. My Typhon's Dreadhammer cannon finds them tasty.

Personally, I find them a waste of points. 10 man in a Rhino, grab objectives, job done. Spend those extra points on things that are more worthwhile and useful...

Depends on point level. At 1,000 points I run 10-man squads, at 2,000 points I run 15-man squads and at 3,000+ points I run 20-man squads.

speaking as a DG player: at 2500 points or beyond, I ALWAYS bring at least 2 20-man tacitcal squads w/ apothecaries. it's fluffy, and they can do quite a lot. Now you could go the '40k army' route and bring 2 bare-bones 10-man squads so you can bring more elite stuff, but then you will have no scoring. the huge problem with 10-man squads, in my opinion, is the fact that they are just to easy to kill. the rhino will drop like nothing, and the guys inside aren't big enough to be a valid threat to larger tac. squads or the many elite squads that laugh at this unit size.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zedmeister wrote:
I like facing 20 man tactical squads on foot, especially if they're in cover. My Typhon's Dreadhammer cannon finds them tasty.

Personally, I find them a waste of points. 10 man in a Rhino, grab objectives, job done. Spend those extra points on things that are more worthwhile and useful...

I suuure do hope that the other player has no AT (or has any decent method of killing your rhino + tiny squad of marines)

The Typhon is great fun, but a LoW tank being good and anti-infantry isn't really a good reason to write off large squads.

I always take 2x 20 with apothecary/sergeant with fist, vox, armour.

Their value isn't always in killing, they score, they take up a lot of space(which helps bubble wrapping) and they stick around. Always love them.

Also... the squad 150 but you get a discount for more..I'm a sucker for a bargain

3x20 plus an apothecary in each for my IW, getting to rapid fire and then charge is just too tempting.

I just put my 20 man squad in a Spartan and leave the other one as a 10 man to stay in the back and score.

 Brennonjw wrote:

I suuure do hope that the other player has no AT (or has any decent method of killing your rhino + tiny squad of marines)

The Typhon is great fun, but a LoW tank being good and anti-infantry isn't really a good reason to write off large squads.

If they're shooting at my Rhinos, they're not shooting at my Marines or my Typhon.

Besides, 35 points to make my Tactical Squad objective grabbers immune to bolterfire and draw heavier weapons that'd probably prefer shooting at other targets, is a bargin.

Doing some reading to get familiar with the HH rules and I noticed the Fury of the Legion rule. Being able to fire twice and come in really handy with large squads.

 Glitcha wrote:
Doing some reading to get familiar with the HH rules and I noticed the Fury of the Legion rule. Being able to fire twice and come in really handy with large squads.

Its awesome but not being able to move is a bit of a downside.

My Guilliman list is going to have two units in rhinos to grab objectives.

My super fluff list is going to have a carpet of them walking across the board. There will be more blue then board, I swear it on Macragge.

 Crazyterran wrote:
My super fluff list is going to have a carpet of them walking across the board. There will be more blue then board, I swear it on Macragge.

Pics when it happens!

Blue tide FTW!

Reminds me of the heady days of early 3rd edition, where you could get a lot done with just tactical marines and bolters. Just waves of tactical squads, rapping out a quick bolter drill, mowing stuff down.

Good times...

20 marines with a apothecary is a very durable unit. It makes up for not being able to move+flat out. I run two 20 man on foot with apoth, and a 10 man in a rhino.

My super fluff list is going to have a carpet of them walking across the board. There will be more blue then board, I swear it on Macragge.

It always looks impressive when that happens. I've done a word bearers list with 4 x 20 man squads all marching lockstep up the board. The dakka that line can put out if it uses fury of the legion en masse is insane - as a local green tide found out.

Of course, it ceases to exist damn quickly on encountering a Typhon.

Small, 10 man squads in Rhinos. I like the mobility and a 20 man squad really attracts a lot of firepower, even if it consists of 20 normal dudes.

I rock the 'angels wrath' RoW so my tactical squads are 20-man
Ive been toying with making them 19 strong and an apothecary chaser but the medic can't help against crash-and-burn wounds.

 Walnuts wrote:
People always say that tactical squads are good in 30k, but I'm not seeing it with mine.

As you saw when we played, I had a blob of 20, you deep struck more than a foot away from them, they fury of the legion'd you, then you charged, and wiped them out. They def didn't kill their 265 points back.

And I feel like that's their best use! Protect your backfield against deep strikers! I've also kept them in reserve, just to waltz onto the field a few turns in, cap a point and hold it for the game, without taking or firing a shot. Not awful, but paying 265 points for that is a bit excessive. And another game where a single scorpius volley killed 17 of em, leaving three to survive and gradually saunter across the battlefield to score me a linebreaker point, purely by virtue of not drawing a single other shot. That's been my experience with the footslogging blob of 20. Super underwhelming, especially compared to my assault marines / scout armored recon marines, which are generally considered sub-par troops.

On of my fall projects is to do a 10 man recon squad in mk v armor with shotguns (I just think they'd look brutal), in a rhino with an assault cannon. Kind of an expensive squad, but they miiiiight be good. If they are, then I might build up a tactical squad with close combat weapons to stick in a rhino as well.

Add an Apothecary w/ Aug scanner (gives them intercept) = 40 bolter shots when they drop in is just nasty. Then fire BPs on your turn and charge. Look at the intercept rule: RF or HVY can fire, on your next turn you can fire another weapon (BPs) if you have one. Stg w/ PF + extra CCW on 19 other dudes. 40 shots, then 20 shots followed by 2 CCW charge. now this is only good vs T7 or less and A10 or less.

15 with an apothecary for me

Whenever possible I run them in 20 + apothecary. The only upgrades I take on the squad are melta bomb on the sgt, vexilla, and sometimes extra ccw. If I am using the reaping I will usually stick the rad grenades with the apothecary.

I've also ran a squad with Crysos Morturg instead of an apothecary to great effect. Endurance on a tac blob is super effective.

They have never disappointed me. They are damn hard to remove, they will put a respectable amount of hurt on anything that gets close.

I swear by 15 with an Apothecary, extra CCWs, Vexilla and Arty Armour (and maybe a Power Weapon if points allow). 20 I find way too unwieldy with 32mm bases, they just logjam as soon as you hit terrain of any kind and have force concentration issues; in any given shooting attack or close combat, a much lower proportion of the squad (compared to 15 men) are able to bring their attacks to bear, so you're tying up points and space in models that aren't contributing anything much.

15+Apothecary have the staying power to last the game holding objectives, good offensive and defensive power and are a nice middle ground between the 10 (too small and fragile) and 20 (too big and clumsy) man squads.

 Paradigm wrote:
I swear by 15 with an Apothecary, extra CCWs, Vexilla and Arty Armour (and maybe a Power Weapon if points allow). 20 I find way too unwieldy with 32mm bases, they just logjam as soon as you hit terrain of any kind and have force concentration issues; in any given shooting attack or close combat, a much lower proportion of the squad (compared to 15 men) are able to bring their attacks to bear, so you're tying up points and space in models that aren't contributing anything much.

15+Apothecary have the staying power to last the game holding objectives, good offensive and defensive power and are a nice middle ground between the 10 (too small and fragile) and 20 (too big and clumsy) man squads.

And that is why I didn't switch my marines over to the 32s.

I typically run a 20 man star. Chaplain, Apothecary, and Praetor buried in it. All with combat blades, and the Dark Angel blade special rule. Makes it very killy for anything short of Primarchs.

I'll also have a 10 man squad in a rhino, sgt packing a combi-melta, for that quick punch.