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I know most chapters get overpowered by the ordo xenos and they get inducted whether they like it or not, but the GK seem to be in a odd situation. First off they are very secretive and don't want anyone knowing they exist, thus causing a problem when he has to work with a bunch of different marines from different chapters, and secondly they belong to the ordo malleus (I think that's the right one), so wouldn't their interests conflict? I thought all marines could enter the deathwatch, but then I thought of the GK, hence this question.

Dakka's thoughts?

I'm fairly certain they do not. IIRC though, the two groups know about one another, so if they need a hand, they just call up the other for assistance (or have daddy inquisitor do it for them).

The GK, while ostensibly being a "chapter" are really just a private fighting force for the Ordo Malleus (albeit with a mandate to go out and fight daemons without requiring much oversight). Broadly speaking though, they're not really part of the traditional "Adeptus Astartes" military structure and do not have to follow the same set of rules.

Grey knighs exist out of pretty much all military structures and protocols, there inquisition not the arastes military branch and normal rules not apply.

There pretty much do as we want, when we want because....

 Xca|iber wrote:
I'm fairly certain they do not. IIRC though, the two groups know about one another, so if they need a hand, they just call up the other for assistance (or have daddy inquisitor do it for them).

The GK, while ostensibly being a "chapter" are really just a private fighting force for the Ordo Malleus (albeit with a mandate to go out and fight daemons without requiring much oversight). Broadly speaking though, they're not really part of the traditional "Adeptus Astartes" military structure and do not have to follow the same set of rules.

actually their newest codex has made them independant from the Ordo Malleus, (hence justifying their removing inqs from the codex) but yeah they have a close relationship with the ordo malleus and won't send troops to death watch...

not OFFICALLY at least, but I suppose there could for some weird reason be a black shield whose actually a grey knight out there.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Xca|iber wrote:
I'm fairly certain they do not. IIRC though, the two groups know about one another, so if they need a hand, they just call up the other for assistance (or have daddy inquisitor do it for them).

The GK, while ostensibly being a "chapter" are really just a private fighting force for the Ordo Malleus (albeit with a mandate to go out and fight daemons without requiring much oversight). Broadly speaking though, they're not really part of the traditional "Adeptus Astartes" military structure and do not have to follow the same set of rules.

actually their newest codex has made them independant from the Ordo Malleus, (hence justifying their removing inqs from the codex) but yeah they have a close relationship with the ordo malleus and won't send troops to death watch...

not OFFICALLY at least, but I suppose there could for some weird reason be a black shield whose actually a grey knight out there.

It has only separated them on the tabletop. Fluffwise the relationship is exactly the same as it's always been.

Given that the Grey Knights are a super special secret organisation like the MiB that not all chapters know about, id like to see a GK join the DW for a special mission and then try keep his cover.

Uh yeah, I'm from the Book Stabbers, we're Ultramarines successor number 666. This is brother Gris, i'm brother Knecht.
We will be accompanying your killteam into the Kroot held world of Diabolis III. Please note that there may be significant amounts of ball lightning.

 JamesY wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Xca|iber wrote:
I'm fairly certain they do not. IIRC though, the two groups know about one another, so if they need a hand, they just call up the other for assistance (or have daddy inquisitor do it for them).

The GK, while ostensibly being a "chapter" are really just a private fighting force for the Ordo Malleus (albeit with a mandate to go out and fight daemons without requiring much oversight). Broadly speaking though, they're not really part of the traditional "Adeptus Astartes" military structure and do not have to follow the same set of rules.

actually their newest codex has made them independant from the Ordo Malleus, (hence justifying their removing inqs from the codex) but yeah they have a close relationship with the ordo malleus and won't send troops to death watch...

not OFFICALLY at least, but I suppose there could for some weird reason be a black shield whose actually a grey knight out there.

It has only separated them on the tabletop. Fluffwise the relationship is exactly the same as it's always been.

the fluff in the 7th edition codex is subtlly differant. they've gone from being "the chamber millitant of the ordo Malleus" to "staunch allies of the inqusition" IIRC a white dwarf noted just before it's release that they where going to try to eistablish the grey knights as a closely allied but technicly independant, chapter.

BrianDavion wrote:

 JamesY wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Xca|iber wrote:
I'm fairly certain they do not. IIRC though, the two groups know about one another, so if they need a hand, they just call up the other for assistance (or have daddy inquisitor do it for them).

The GK, while ostensibly being a "chapter" are really just a private fighting force for the Ordo Malleus (albeit with a mandate to go out and fight daemons without requiring much oversight). Broadly speaking though, they're not really part of the traditional "Adeptus Astartes" military structure and do not have to follow the same set of rules.

actually their newest codex has made them independant from the Ordo Malleus, (hence justifying their removing inqs from the codex) but yeah they have a close relationship with the ordo malleus and won't send troops to death watch...

not OFFICALLY at least, but I suppose there could for some weird reason be a black shield whose actually a grey knight out there.

It has only separated them on the tabletop. Fluffwise the relationship is exactly the same as it's always been.

the fluff in the 7th edition codex is subtlly differant. they've gone from being "the chamber millitant of the ordo Malleus" to "staunch allies of the inqusition" IIRC a white dwarf noted just before it's release that they where going to try to eistablish the grey knights as a closely allied but technicly independant, chapter.

Never even noticed that subtle rewording...

generally that's what makes it subtle

but yeah it's why they seperated GKs and inqusition, GKs are no longer Ordo Malleus Lapdogs, they'll come when asked to, but at the same time persue their own agendas and needs. according to the codex, the 7th brotherhood is the one that works most closely with the inqusition, and it makes pretty clear that the Inqusition may only REQUEST their assistance, not ORDER it

BrianDavion wrote:
generally that's what makes it subtle

but yeah it's why they seperated GKs and inqusition, GKs are no longer Ordo Malleus Lapdogs, they'll come when asked to, but at the same time persue their own agendas and needs. according to the codex, the 7th brotherhood is the one that works most closely with the inqusition, and it makes pretty clear that the Inqusition may only REQUEST their assistance, not ORDER it

Which is an idiotic retcon of fluff imho.

Practically speaking, they only function when working under the Ordo Malleus (since the Inquisition handles pretty much all the logistics of fighting a Chaos incursion besides the boots-on-the-ground killing), with the exception of being able to respond without regard to issues of factional bickering on the part of the Inquisition (which they could do previously anyway - it just counted as being a little insubordinate). They'll never refuse a summons unless they literally don't have the manpower, which is exactly like it was before. All the hand-waving to sell two books instead of one is just empty gesticulating on the part of GW.

The idea that they can realistically function independent of the Inquisition is a bunch of silly Mary Sue BS. There's no way they can operate in their proscribed role without the Ordo Malleus. I mean, a frigate with a squad or two acting independently is one thing, but the idea that they can be the Totally Self-Sufficient Ultrasmurfs of Daemon-Fighting is complete nonsense.

Also, unless something has changed their fortress monastery is still on Titan, which is owned by the Inquisition (and similarly, Broadsword Station where they moor all their ships).

presumably titan is owned by the grey knights. and it makes as much sense as space marines being mostly indepentn of the IoM despite relying on the IoM for ammunition, parts etc.

On a regular basis (i.e always) Grey Knights would focus on the Daemonic threats they are supposed to fight. I can nonetheless very well imagine a Grey Knight agent being seconded to a Deathwatch kill team to treat a Chaos-worshipping xenos infestation.

Model wise, you can still paint your Grey Knights as you want. I took the liberty to do this, even though I know a GK would probably not abandon its sliver armour



GK minis are too awesome not to be recycled in a Deathwatch army !

BrianDavion wrote:
generally that's what makes it subtle

No need to be condescending.

 JamesY wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
generally that's what makes it subtle

No need to be condescending.

wasn't intended to be and my apology if it came off as such, but rather my noting that subtle changes like that by their nature ARE hard to spot by their nature and can sometimes slip by you so totally is understandable if someone misses em

No they dont, the Grey Knights do not operate like the "normal" marine chapters

BrianDavion wrote:

 JamesY wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
generally that's what makes it subtle

No need to be condescending.

wasn't intended to be and my apology if it came off as such

Appreciated and accepted. I'll be honest, after 25 years in the hobby, I don't really read the codex fluff beyond a skim that much anymore as it's usually a rewording of the same old stories, so quite a few tweeks and alterations may have passed me by...

TheWanderer wrote:
No they dont, the Grey Knights do not operate like the "normal" marine chapters

no they're obviously structured very differantly, but NOR are they, per the 7th edition codex, simply the well trained attack dogs of the Inqusition, apparently they're a little more pro-active, and will actively seek out demonic activity on their own. which honestly makes some sense, given that the alterntive is they hang around on titan until an inqusitor in the field gets a message off to titan saying "need knights NOW". time of is the essence when dealing with demonic incursions. and yeah they proably do have to pick and choose what inqusitors they go to, The demands for their services likely outstrip their resources, leaving them to decide where their resources are best used.

ya know just like any other space marine chapter.

In fairness, the GK's have always had autonomy. Their prognosticars find likely sites of daemonic incursion, and they go without the involvement of the inquisition. I always saw the seperation as more of an issue of resources; an inquisitor is cheaper to produce than a Grey Knight. Inquisitors find the problems, the GK's deal with the problems they find as they have the resources on hand (rather than requisitioning them from whatever happens to be nearby). I don't think there has ever been much in the way of a long standing rivalry or resentment between them.

BrianDavion wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:


ya know just like any other space marine chapter.

Not really, they were made with a very different purpose to the "regular" marines.

If you go back to the early fluff its even clear that "regular" marines were not deployed against Daemonic opponents in preference to Guard and understandably GK.

I would also suggest that "regular" marines have less autonomy than you perhaps are thinking, GK way more so.