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Roknar wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:
Any news on the chaos formation yet?

More relevant question, has anyone hated themselves enough to even buy the CSM box yet?!

Of course. Who wouldn't want more helbrutes and terminator lords/sorcs.

Good point, I only have 6 Termie Lords - I just realised that I must buy 6 more!

(actually, is it hilarious or just a complete kick in the nuts that buying 3 of these sets is actually a better way to build a Mayham Pack + an actual Termie Squad than just buying a Chaos Termie box + 3 Hellbrutes?!)

Formation is Hatred to units from the formation within 12" of the Lord. Underwhelming, but at least it's not Fear.

Still pretty awful. What else would we expect for CSM though?

 Lord Corellia wrote:
Still pretty awful. What else would we expect for CSM though?

Depravity to an absurd degree?

 Lukash_ wrote:
Formation is Hatred to units from the formation within 12" of the Lord.(emphasis mine) Underwhelming, but at least it's not Fear.

I was gonna say something witty, but I got overwhelmed by disappointment lol. This is worse than than taking those units in an allied CAD.

I had my bets on Fear, before I saw this. If the next edition made Fear a legitimate thing again a lot of Chaos would suddenly need a second looking at... but its just so rarely comes up.

Roknar wrote:

 Lukash_ wrote:
Formation is Hatred to units from the formation within 12" of the Lord.(emphasis mine) Underwhelming, but at least it's not Fear.

I was gonna say something witty, but I got overwhelmed by disappointment lol. This is worse than than taking those units in an allied CAD.

Hey now, if you take the formation using Crimson Slaughter rules, you can get Hatred within 12" of the Lord AND Fear!

Now how long until Loyalists cry foul and claim that's tots OP?!

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:

 Lukash_ wrote:
Formation is Hatred to units from the formation within 12" of the Lord.(emphasis mine) Underwhelming, but at least it's not Fear.

I was gonna say something witty, but I got overwhelmed by disappointment lol. This is worse than than taking those units in an allied CAD.

Hey now, if you take the formation using Crimson Slaughter rules, you can get Hatred within 12" of the Lord AND Fear!

Now how long until Loyalists cry foul and claim that's tots OP?!

Probably about as long as it takes for Traitors to cry about getting underwhelming rules.

 EnTyme wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:

 Lukash_ wrote:
Formation is Hatred to units from the formation within 12" of the Lord.(emphasis mine) Underwhelming, but at least it's not Fear.

I was gonna say something witty, but I got overwhelmed by disappointment lol. This is worse than than taking those units in an allied CAD.

Hey now, if you take the formation using Crimson Slaughter rules, you can get Hatred within 12" of the Lord AND Fear!

Now how long until Loyalists cry foul and claim that's tots OP?!

Probably about as long as it takes for Traitors to cry about getting underwhelming rules.

Incorrect. Any true CSM player has been crying uninterrupted since the 4th ed codex dropped.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:

 Lukash_ wrote:
Formation is Hatred to units from the formation within 12" of the Lord.(emphasis mine) Underwhelming, but at least it's not Fear.

I was gonna say something witty, but I got overwhelmed by disappointment lol. This is worse than than taking those units in an allied CAD.

Hey now, if you take the formation using Crimson Slaughter rules, you can get Hatred within 12" of the Lord AND Fear!

Now how long until Loyalists cry foul and claim that's tots OP?!

Probably about as long as it takes for Traitors to cry about getting underwhelming rules.

Incorrect. Any true CSM player has been crying uninterrupted since the 4th ed codex dropped.

For good reason when in 2016 we are still getting bonuses like hatred where in the very same release scions literally get limitless reinforcement. Ugh, I wished I had never started a clearly meant to be NPC army all those years ago.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:
Any news on the chaos formation yet?

More relevant question, has anyone hated themselves enough to even buy the CSM box yet?!

I was going to Only because I don't have enough for the Attack Force box that's still in my GW.

 buddha wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:

 Lukash_ wrote:
Formation is Hatred to units from the formation within 12" of the Lord.(emphasis mine) Underwhelming, but at least it's not Fear.

I was gonna say something witty, but I got overwhelmed by disappointment lol. This is worse than than taking those units in an allied CAD.

Hey now, if you take the formation using Crimson Slaughter rules, you can get Hatred within 12" of the Lord AND Fear!

Now how long until Loyalists cry foul and claim that's tots OP?!

Probably about as long as it takes for Traitors to cry about getting underwhelming rules.

Incorrect. Any true CSM player has been crying uninterrupted since the 4th ed codex dropped.

For good reason when in 2016 we are still getting bonuses like hatred where in the very same release scions literally get limitless reinforcement. Ugh, I wished I had never started a clearly meant to be NPC army all those years ago.

You're seriously saying you can't kill a T3 model with a bad save? Or are we doing the classic trick of exaggerating a formation bonus?

Problem is ATSKNF and there would be a huge backlash if it Marines suddenly became afraid of everything.

Hatred is pitiful and Scions got the formation rule that the AM box should have had. Really bad boxes.

pm713 wrote:
You're seriously saying you can't kill a T3 model with a bad save? Or are we doing the classic trick of exaggerating a formation bonus?

Well since chaos players rather whine than do anything about it(if you suffer it's because you chose to suffer. You can fix your games easily. I did. If I can do it anybody can do it) then yeah. They are incapable of killing T3 no save guy. Pointing something as threatening as rain at commisars direction is after all difficult task!

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:
Any news on the chaos formation yet?

More relevant question, has anyone hated themselves enough to even buy the CSM box yet?!

Of course. Who wouldn't want more helbrutes and terminator lords/sorcs.

Good point, I only have 6 Termie Lords - I just realised that I must buy 6 more!

(actually, is it hilarious or just a complete kick in the nuts that buying 3 of these sets is actually a better way to build a Mayham Pack + an actual Termie Squad than just buying a Chaos Termie box + 3 Hellbrutes?!)

Still not as much as a joke as the Tau kit, where the start collecting box costs merely 10$ more than a crisis suit team. (and the termi pack contains 5 dudes, not 3.)

 BoomWolf wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:
Any news on the chaos formation yet?

More relevant question, has anyone hated themselves enough to even buy the CSM box yet?!

Of course. Who wouldn't want more helbrutes and terminator lords/sorcs.

Good point, I only have 6 Termie Lords - I just realised that I must buy 6 more!

(actually, is it hilarious or just a complete kick in the nuts that buying 3 of these sets is actually a better way to build a Mayham Pack + an actual Termie Squad than just buying a Chaos Termie box + 3 Hellbrutes?!)

Still not as much as a joke as the Tau kit, where the start collecting box costs merely 10$ more than a crisis suit team. (and the termi pack contains 5 dudes, not 3.)

The problem with the Termie kit is that you can't actually build much of anything with it... Hell, you don't even get enough basic Combi-Bolters + Power toys to even build a squad with their basic options!

Our Termie kit comes with exactly;
3x Combi-Bolters
1x Combi-Flamer
1x Combi-Melta
1x Heavy flamer
1x Reaper autocannon

2x Power axes
1x Power maul
2x Power fists
2x Chainfists
1x stupid tentacle arm, because... "KAYOS!"

Missing entirely are options for even a single power sword, power lance, lightning claw (let alone a pair of 'em!), combi-plasma, and ALL of the Icon options.

On the other hand, the Termie Lord/Sorc kit, comes with;
Combi-bolter, Combi-Melta, Power axe, Force staff, Power fist, Chainfist, pair of Lightning claws.

Still missing lots of stuff, but at least with 3x SC! boxes, you could get a Mayham Pack + a 3-man Termiecide squad w/all Combi-Meltas, and for not that much more than simply buying 3x hellbrutes + a (useless) Termie box.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Problem is ATSKNF and there would be a huge backlash if it Marines suddenly became afraid of everything.

Hatred is pitiful and Scions got the formation rule that the AM box should have had. Really bad boxes.

Honestly if ATSKNF was nerfed most people I know who play a Marine army would be pretty happy.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Roknar wrote:
Any news on the chaos formation yet?

More relevant question, has anyone hated themselves enough to even buy the CSM box yet?!

Of course. Who wouldn't want more helbrutes and terminator lords/sorcs.

Good point, I only have 6 Termie Lords - I just realised that I must buy 6 more!

(actually, is it hilarious or just a complete kick in the nuts that buying 3 of these sets is actually a better way to build a Mayham Pack + an actual Termie Squad than just buying a Chaos Termie box + 3 Hellbrutes?!)

Still not as much as a joke as the Tau kit, where the start collecting box costs merely 10$ more than a crisis suit team. (and the termi pack contains 5 dudes, not 3.)

The problem with the Termie kit is that you can't actually build much of anything with it... Hell, you don't even get enough basic Combi-Bolters + Power toys to even build a squad with their basic options!

Our Termie kit comes with exactly;
3x Combi-Bolters
1x Combi-Flamer
1x Combi-Melta
1x Heavy flamer
1x Reaper autocannon

2x Power axes
1x Power maul
2x Power fists
2x Chainfists
1x stupid tentacle arm, because... "KAYOS!"

Missing entirely are options for even a single power sword, power lance, lightning claw (let alone a pair of 'em!), combi-plasma, and ALL of the Icon options.

On the other hand, the Termie Lord/Sorc kit, comes with;
Combi-bolter, Combi-Melta, Power axe, Force staff, Power fist, Chainfist, pair of Lightning claws.

Still missing lots of stuff, but at least with 3x SC! boxes, you could get a Mayham Pack + a 3-man Termiecide squad w/all Combi-Meltas, and for not that much more than simply buying 3x hellbrutes + a (useless) Termie box.

You should always be extremely careful when building squads with options that aren't in the box. When the codex gets redone they may decide to make the options in the rules match the options in the box. So maybe something like the heavy weapon guy exchanges combi-bolter + power weapon for heavy weapon + tentacle arm (Str User AP6 Fear), and only the heavy weapon guy and champion can take combi-weapons (combi-weapon takes the place of the heavy). And no combi-plasma. Champ comes with power fist stock. Then the box contents would better mirror the options. In other words, magnetize.

Our Termie kit is so fethed up, that to re-write the unit to properly match the available options, you'd have to do something like;
Unit size: 5 (no option to add any more or less!)
- Champion - Combi-flamer or melta + Power maul.
- 2x Terminators w/Combi-bolter + Power axe
- 1x Terminator w/Combi-bolter + Power fist (may upgrade to Chainfist)
- 1x Terminator w/Heavy flamer or Reaper autocannon + Power fist (may upgrade to Chainfist)

At that point, I'd rather see GW just remove the whole damn unit from existence as the above is so boring & mostly useless in actual play!

Experiment 626 wrote:
Our Termie kit is so fethed up, that to re-write the unit to properly match the available options, you'd have to do something like;
Unit size: 5 (no option to add any more or less!)
- Champion - Combi-flamer or melta + Power maul.
- 2x Terminators w/Combi-bolter + Power axe
- 1x Terminator w/Combi-bolter + Power fist (may upgrade to Chainfist)
- 1x Terminator w/Heavy flamer or Reaper autocannon + Power fist (may upgrade to Chainfist)

At that point, I'd rather see GW just remove the whole damn unit from existence as the above is so boring & mostly useless in actual play!

You forgot the Chaos Tentacle.

I was really hoping to have another source of soulblaze for my CSM that rule really rips it up!

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Dunno if this was posted yet:

Spoiler:

While I don't know about the tactical effectiveness of this, it genuinely makes me want to get more scions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Our Termie kit is so fethed up, that to re-write the unit to properly match the available options, you'd have to do something like;
Unit size: 5 (no option to add any more or less!)
- Champion - Combi-flamer or melta + Power maul.
- 2x Terminators w/Combi-bolter + Power axe
- 1x Terminator w/Combi-bolter + Power fist (may upgrade to Chainfist)
- 1x Terminator w/Heavy flamer or Reaper autocannon + Power fist (may upgrade to Chainfist)

At that point, I'd rather see GW just remove the whole damn unit from existence as the above is so boring & mostly useless in actual play!

You forgot the Chaos Tentacle.

Exalted.

I actually love the tentacle arm.
Is "Power anything", a prove me wrong

Though on a more serious note, yes. I love the arm. gives a chaos vibe other than SPIKES FOR THE SPIKE GODS


On the positive side of being chaos though, you can literally pick ANY marine kit, and claim it as your own, with little to no modification needed. (just throw in a few chaos bits if you got any lying around, and scratch off any overly imperial symbols)



Also, noticed something. the Terminator Cadre thing is 60$ for a chaos termi squad and a termi lord (same as DA/BA termi squad) and with that kit you get 6 bodies with the following weapons:
4x Combi-Bolters
1x Combi-Flamer
2x Combi-Melta
1x Heavy flamer
1x Reaper autocannon
3x Power axes
1x Power maul
3x Power fists
3x Chainfists
3x lightning claws (1 right 1 left)
1x Force Stave (can be used as maul with some cutting)
1x AWESOME tentacle arm

So the cadre is a slightly better deal there, if you are looking to get actual chaos terminators, rather than convert your own.

 Lord Corellia wrote:
A lot of other factions got their Start Collecting! at the same time as Wolves and didn't get squat after. I think that was more a coincidence.

CSM one is garbage though. Terminator Lord is in every damn set they do for Chaos and no one wants a fething Hellbrute. Ugh.

The start collecting! Skitarii has a Tech Priest Dominus in the pack... The Skitarii book doesn't have any tech priests.
If it was "Start Collecting! Ad Mech", then fair enough. But it's all Skitarii... and one that isn't.

 Purifier wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:
A lot of other factions got their Start Collecting! at the same time as Wolves and didn't get squat after. I think that was more a coincidence.

CSM one is garbage though. Terminator Lord is in every damn set they do for Chaos and no one wants a fething Hellbrute. Ugh.

The start collecting! Skitarii has a Tech Priest Dominus in the pack... The Skitarii book doesn't have any tech priests.
If it was "Start Collecting! Ad Mech", then fair enough. But it's all Skitarii... and one that isn't.

Makes as much sense as a split-up codex, I suppose....

 Ankhalagon wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:
A lot of other factions got their Start Collecting! at the same time as Wolves and didn't get squat after. I think that was more a coincidence.

CSM one is garbage though. Terminator Lord is in every damn set they do for Chaos and no one wants a fething Hellbrute. Ugh.

The start collecting! Skitarii has a Tech Priest Dominus in the pack... The Skitarii book doesn't have any tech priests.
If it was "Start Collecting! Ad Mech", then fair enough. But it's all Skitarii... and one that isn't.

Makes as much sense as a split-up codex, I suppose....

Or a Legionswithrenegadesandalsodarkmechanicum codex that doesn't do anything close to even a single entity!?

Still, didn't we have rumors earlier this year that we'd eventually get a properly combined Skitarii/Mechanicum codex before 2016 is out?