Just occured to me... orks

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**SolarCross**

SemperMortis wrote:

You really don't understand the ork codex or the supplement. NO Ork unit gets leadership 12 except units with fearless, and those are few and far between, and usually pay through the nose for that benefit.

The blood price you mention is D6 S4 hits against a unit that failed the LD Check. Unless your in CC you run away 1/6th of the time, you take D6 wounds if you have a nob or other character alive 1/3rd of the time or you take D6 wounds if you have 10+ models.

For our leadership to work, orks have to pay an absurd amount of points, points that we could otherwise use for more cool toyz like mek gunz and Tank bustas (who suck but for some reason are one of the better units in our codex).

Ghazzies modified Mob rule SUCKS WORSE, yes you are never going to fail a test until you lose your character or go below 10 models but for small units you just nerfed them, they basically went from Passing 1/3rd of the time to failing 5/6th of the time. Furthermore the Mob rule for Ghaz units is D3+3, in other worse averaging 5 hits on every mob rule test, of which 2-3 will wound and unless they are in Eavy armor those 2-3 are dead.

If you were Ld12 you would auto-pass a morale test on a 2d6. By the Ork codex version of mob rule a big mob with a character with a bosspole, takes a normal morale test at Ld7 (or Ld8 or Ld9 if there is a big mek or warboss in there) and in the event of failure rolls on the mob rule table on a 4-6 he auto-passes, on a 2-3 he auto-passes and on a 1 he auto passes in combat but can re-roll it with his boss-pole if he is not in combat. That is so close to an auto-pass it is practically Ld12. Except actually better because in combat you take your morale test with a penalty to leadership by the number of wounds you lost by, right? So even if you were Ld12 depending you how much you lost the round by you are going to be at taking the morale check at something less than Ld12. Mob rule? no you are good to go, no matter how much you lost by. It is even better than fearless actually, if you read the rule for fearless as well as having the benefit of always passing morale and pinning checks you are also stuffed by becoming incapable of going to ground or choosing to fail a morale check due to "our weapons are useless". Mob rule doesn't stop you from going to ground and unless I am missing something it doesn't stop you choosing to fail due to "our weapons are useless", those are options that potentially valuable.

Ghazzies rule doubles down on that so yes the price is steeper but as with vanilla mob rule you only have to pay it if you benefit from it. As for small units, well I have said this before, you don't need EVERY fething UNIT to have LD12!!! Some are just better off as Ld7. Shooty units mostly. Shooty units can use their fire more efficiently in small units, and especially for orks are not really hurt that much by being reduced to snap shots from falling back or going to ground. Ghazzies rule helps the small units too as it hurts them less to have a character in them, with a character they are only exposed to mob rule on a 1 out of a d6. Granted if they roll unlucky that character will probably kill most of them, but hey, unlucky rolls will kill anyone. Now for small close combat units there are MANZ who can be put in the Bully Boyz formation and get fearless, which flat out exempts them from mob rule altogether, Nobs if you have them, biker or otherwise, are generally fielded with a Ld9 warboss and so not needing mobrule so much anyway and can be given that orkimedes thing that grants fearless if you are really anal about having Ld12/fearless on everything. Burnas? Well they can be given Ld12 by maxing the numbers but then you really need to stick in a painboy to make it worthwhile. You don't need to though, keep em under 10 and have them support a big mob of boyz. If they end up losing a combat they can fallback behind the line of LD12 boyz and potentially regroup for another pop.

So that leaves warbikers.. Well I think they work better as small units, YMMV, that said at T5 4+ they can tank a few hits from mobrule better than most. But see here is another thing Orks now have 3 different FOCs to play with as well as a number of formations. Who has 3 different FOCs? Almost everyone has the standard CAD (I'm not counting Allied as a separate detachment as it is really just CAD lite) whilst Orks also have the Ork Horde and the Great Waaagh. Great so you can choose between 2 different mob rules and three different detachments. There is nothing but points costs stopping you from using all three in one army.

Myself, after I have gotten over the shock of how fierce ghazzies mob rule is, am starting to lean heavily towards it. I might just not even bother with the others except perhaps a mini cad just for obsec grots and a couple of extra HQ slots.

**SemperMortis**

Spoiler:

SolarCross wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:

You really don't understand the ork codex or the supplement. NO Ork unit gets leadership 12 except units with fearless, and those are few and far between, and usually pay through the nose for that benefit.

The blood price you mention is D6 S4 hits against a unit that failed the LD Check. Unless your in CC you run away 1/6th of the time, you take D6 wounds if you have a nob or other character alive 1/3rd of the time or you take D6 wounds if you have 10+ models.

For our leadership to work, orks have to pay an absurd amount of points, points that we could otherwise use for more cool toyz like mek gunz and Tank bustas (who suck but for some reason are one of the better units in our codex).

Ghazzies modified Mob rule SUCKS WORSE, yes you are never going to fail a test until you lose your character or go below 10 models but for small units you just nerfed them, they basically went from Passing 1/3rd of the time to failing 5/6th of the time. Furthermore the Mob rule for Ghaz units is D3+3, in other worse averaging 5 hits on every mob rule test, of which 2-3 will wound and unless they are in Eavy armor those 2-3 are dead.

If you were Ld12 you would auto-pass a morale test on a 2d6. By the Ork codex version of mob rule a big mob with a character with a bosspole, takes a normal morale test at Ld7 (or Ld8 or Ld9 if there is a big mek or warboss in there) and in the event of failure rolls on the mob rule table on a 4-6 he auto-passes, on a 2-3 he auto-passes and on a 1 he auto passes in combat but can re-roll it with his boss-pole if he is not in combat. That is so close to an auto-pass it is practically Ld12. Except actually better because in combat you take your morale test with a penalty to leadership by the number of wounds you lost by, right? So even if you were Ld12 depending you how much you lost the round by you are going to be at taking the morale check at something less than Ld12. Mob rule? no you are good to go, no matter how much you lost by. It is even better than fearless actually, if you read the rule for fearless as well as having the benefit of always passing morale and pinning checks you are also stuffed by becoming incapable of going to ground or choosing to fail a morale check due to "our weapons are useless". Mob rule doesn't stop you from going to ground and unless I am missing something it doesn't stop you choosing to fail due to "our weapons are useless", those are options that potentially valuable.

Ghazzies rule doubles down on that so yes the price is steeper but as with vanilla mob rule you only have to pay it if you benefit from it. As for small units, well I have said this before, you don't need EVERY fething UNIT to have LD12!!! Some are just better off as Ld7. Shooty units mostly. Shooty units can use their fire more efficiently in small units, and especially for orks are not really hurt that much by being reduced to snap shots from falling back or going to ground. Ghazzies rule helps the small units too as it hurts them less to have a character in them, with a character they are only exposed to mob rule on a 1 out of a d6. Granted if they roll unlucky that character will probably kill most of them, but hey, unlucky rolls will kill anyone. Now for small close combat units there are MANZ who can be put in the Bully Boyz formation and get fearless, which flat out exempts them from mob rule altogether, Nobs if you have them, biker or otherwise, are generally fielded with a Ld9 warboss and so not needing mobrule so much anyway and can be given that orkimedes thing that grants fearless if you are really anal about having Ld12/fearless on everything. Burnas? Well they can be given Ld12 by maxing the numbers but then you really need to stick in a painboy to make it worthwhile. You don't need to though, keep em under 10 and have them support a big mob of boyz. If they end up losing a combat they can fallback behind the line of LD12 boyz and potentially regroup for another pop.

So that leaves warbikers.. Well I think they work better as small units, YMMV, that said at T5 4+ they can tank a few hits from mobrule better than most. But see here is another thing Orks now have 3 different FOCs to play with as well as a number of formations. Who has 3 different FOCs? Almost everyone has the standard CAD (I'm not counting Allied as a separate detachment as it is really just CAD lite) whilst Orks also have the Ork Horde and the Great Waaagh. Great so you can choose between 2 different mob rules and three different detachments. There is nothing but points costs stopping you from using all three in one army.

Myself, after I have gotten over the shock of how fierce ghazzies mob rule is, am starting to lean heavily towards it. I might just not even bother with the others except perhaps a mini cad just for obsec grots and a couple of extra HQ slots.

Well, since your a tactical genius and have figured out how to win tournaments with orks (having never played them) All I can say is, good luck to you and enjoy winning often with your orks when you get them.