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Hello

After discussing my list over at B&C someone raised this issue -

If I take a FA drop pod from a CAD or any other detachment, can I then use that drop pod to transport a unit from another formation or detachment.

So, to use the example from my list, I have a FA drop pod from a CotGW detachment that I want to transport a squad of Wulfen from a Wulfen Murderpack formation.

I know that the FAQ has said Battle Brothers can't start embarked on each other's transports - but these are from the same faction, so can you see an issue here?

Sorry if this has been answered before, but I couldn't find anything on this particular problem.

Thanks!

Currently, using a Drop Pod in that fashion is just fine, as far as we can tell. The restrictions placed by the recent FAQ suggests that Battle Brothers from differing factions cannot start the game deployed in each other's transports (though they can embark on them once the game is in full swing).

A very tight reading of the rules means that so long as they're the same faction, which Space Wolves in the Company of the Great Wolf and Wulfen from a Wulfen Murderpack are, that they can indeed share their Drop Pods. That is the current RAW + FAQ.

However, we're not clear on the intent of GW yet. It COULD be that they meant for units only to start the game deployed in transports from their own detachment. If this is the case, then you couldn't have Wulfen from that formation in the Drop Pods from another. However, that seems unlikely.

Its only a "tight" reading of the rules if you think that reading a rule that doesnt apply to you, and then applying it, is a good way to go about reading rules (to whit: you only consider ally status only when dealing with different factions, and have no permission to do so at other times)

Factions are battle brothers with themselves (so that we know how the different detachments interact on the table).

Nothing in the FAQ implies that just because you are the same faction means you can ignore the limitation on BB allied transports.

 Massaen wrote:
Factions are battle brothers with themselves (so that we know how the different detachments interact on the table).

Nothing in the FAQ implies that just because you are the same faction means you can ignore the limitation on BB allied transports.

Well, Detachments don't ally with each other. Units do. If your stance is correct, no units would ever be able to deploy inside a Fast Attack Drop Pod since even units within the same Detachment are considered to ally with each other at a Battle Brothers level.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Its only a "tight" reading of the rules if you think that reading a rule that doesnt apply to you, and then applying it, is a good way to go about reading rules (to whit: you only consider ally status only when dealing with different factions, and have no permission to do so at other times)

Massaen wrote:Factions are battle brothers with themselves (so that we know how the different detachments interact on the table).

Nothing in the FAQ implies that just because you are the same faction means you can ignore the limitation on BB allied transports.

It's funny how this post directly after yours shows exactly why it's a tight reading

Players are used to thinking of other detachments of the same faction as being Battle Brothers with themselves. This has become so ingrained into our heads that most people gloss over that small sentence in the rules saying that this only applies when dealing with different factions. Furthermore, as stated, we can't be 100% sure on the RAI, since the allies rules also only apply to UNITS with different factions, and not detachments.

(For Massean, it's important that this applies to units from different factions because if it applied to all units, regardless of faction, then no one without a dedicated transport could ever start the game in a transport. If they clarify it, they might have meant that units from different detachments, rather than factions, use the ally chart, but that's not what it currently says.)

it isnt a tight rading: it is a direct, exceptionally simple reading of the actual rule presented. It requires no special interpretation

The fact people dont read the actual rules, and make assumptions, is the problem.

Just been reading over the rulebook and just before the Allies matrix it states - "The Allies Matrix below shows the levels of alliance between units that have different Factions in the same army."

So by that logic, different formations and detachments are not allied with each other if they're the same Faction. Therefore the FAQ on Battle Brothers doesn't apply.

Patch wrote:
Just been reading over the rulebook and just before the Allies matrix it states - "The Allies Matrix below shows the levels of alliance between units that have different Factions in the same army."

So by that logic, different formations and detachments are not allied with each other if they're the same Faction. Therefore the FAQ on Battle Brothers doesn't apply.

Formation and Detachment doesn't matter. Level of alliance is between UNITS. If Space Wolves are Battle Brothers with Space Wolves and the FAQ applies, then NO UNIT CURRENTLY IN THE GAME could ever embark into a Space Wolves Fast Attack Drop Pod. I can't imagine this is the intention.

Keep in mind that there is at least one Formation out there which would have units being Battle Brothers with themselves. But that is because it is a very rare case of multiple Factions being represented in one Detachment.

But factions are listed as battle brothers with themselves - why do this if it did not apply across detachments?

Because in some cases (Like Armies of the Imperium) the entry on the ally chart doesn't represent a single faction at all, but multiple factions, and later codex releases say to treat units of that Faction as units of Faction X on the allies chart (e.g, Renegade Knights).

 Massaen wrote:
But factions are listed as battle brothers with themselves - why do this if it did not apply across detachments?

Why write explicitly that it only applies between units of different Faction if it did apply across different detachments of the same Faction?

Allies rules have nothing to do with detachments, and don't mention detachments at all. The only reason we consider detachments as relevant is because most (but not all) can be made up of units from only one Faction.

If the Allies rules had units of the same Faction treating each other as Battle Brothers then according to the FAQ a unit wouldn't even be able to start the game embarked upon its own Dedicated Transport because they would be Battle Brothers.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Because in some cases (Like Armies of the Imperium) the entry on the ally chart doesn't represent a single faction at all, but multiple factions, and later codex releases say to treat units of that Faction as units of Faction X on the allies chart (e.g, Renegade Knights).

This. Genestealers for a recent example?

I thought about Genestealer Cults but then the Draft FaQ made them AoC with Tyranids instead of Battle Brothers like the table would suggest, making it a less perfect example than Renegade Knights.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I thought about Genestealer Cults but then the Draft FaQ made them AoC with Tyranids instead of Battle Brothers like the table would suggest, making it a less perfect example than Renegade Knights.

Which is a perfect example of them ignoring their own text.

Can you demonstrate where it actually states Tyranids are AoC with Tyranids?

I can't, because no where does.

GW just decided in all their wisdom (or lack of it) to make an exception to how Genestealer Cults function allies-wise with Tyranids in the FaQ draft for reasons unknown to us mere money trees.

Tyranids are still BB with Tyranids (even though that means nothing in practice as allies rules are only used for models with a different faction). GSC are no longer BB with Tyranids but AoC because GW made an exception in the FaQ.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I can't, because no where does.

GW just decided in all their wisdom (or lack of it) to make an exception to how Genestealer Cults function allies-wise with Tyranids in the FaQ draft for reasons unknown to us mere money trees.

Tyranids are still BB with Tyranids (even though that means nothing in practice as allies rules are only used for models with a different faction). GSC are no longer BB with Tyranids but AoC because GW made an exception in the FaQ.

Only if that FAQ Draft goes live. And technically, not even then. Until the document is errata'd or updated to say otherwise, an FAQ is still nothing more than a House Rule from GW. At least so they have claimed in the past.

The intention of the FAQ is pretty clear - to stop taxiangels and other drop pod abuse between different factions. Inside the same faction (which comprises a codex, all supplements based on it and dataslates adding units to it), the intent is to allow as normal.