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So Ive been racking my brain on what army to do next, at the moment i have necrons but when i play them my opponent tends to not have fun leading to me not having any fun either , right now im looking for something that can be played both competitively and can be tweaked for casual games, i don't really have any preferences though i do want something that might challenge me painting wise or an army that's out side the norm. i also do plan on getting some forge-world units depending on the army. So please lay down your recommendations

Tyranids are the first that come to mind. It's pretty easy to see when you're playing competitive Nids list vs. fun Nids list. It's an army with tons of modelling and painting potential, and some of the very best units are Forge World.

The other is Skitarii with Cult Mechanicus. They're another one that can play a competitive list or do something a bit more fluffy and fun. Painting up all those cyborgs would be fun IMO. That's actually my next project once I've finished painting up my Iron Hands successors.

Competitive casual?

Id figure Space marines would be the best.
1) you can go full ham if you want
2) there are plenty of options to make them less competitive.
3) they have a LOT of forgeworld options.
4) painting wise, you can make them as difficult as you want to make them.
5) LOTS of ally options.

Vanilla Space Marines might not be the most interesting thing, but they can be build in a wide variety of styles and competitiveness levels.

From the responses, so far it seem marines are the way to go, plus i do have a couple marines painted in the minotaurs chapter color and have been debating continuing with them due to an attempt on a rhino without an airbrush;/

Though i'm still open for opinions

Maybe a Freakshow list? If you want something outside the box that will challenge you painting-wise that can also play casual and surprise competitive lists, it seems like it ticks all your boxes, and you can bring in some Corsairs if you want Forge World units.

 Edict wrote:
From the responses, so far it seem marines are the way to go, plus i do have a couple marines painted in the minotaurs chapter color and have been debating continuing with them due to an attempt on a rhino without an airbrush;/

Though i'm still open for opinions

They're definitely very flexible suiting some of your requirements, but I hesitated to recommend them after reading 'out of the norm' and 'painting challenge'. That's not to say that Marines can't be painted beautifully, but they're pretty much the norm and they're mostly quite easy to paint. Though that may be because the Chapter I've got is an Iron Hands successor and eschews the fancy-pantsy colour schemes.

Competative casual and painting challenge? Quartered marines. Novamarines have a particular spot for me when they're well done on the tabletop

 Zan wrote:

 Edict wrote:
From the responses, so far it seem marines are the way to go, plus i do have a couple marines painted in the minotaurs chapter color and have been debating continuing with them due to an attempt on a rhino without an airbrush;/

Though i'm still open for opinions

They're definitely very flexible suiting some of your requirements, but I hesitated to recommend them after reading 'out of the norm' and 'painting challenge'. That's not to say that Marines can't be painted beautifully, but they're pretty much the norm and they're mostly quite easy to paint. Though that may be because the Chapter I've got is an Iron Hands successor and eschews the fancy-pantsy colour schemes.

Your right with the marines, they are currently bottom of the list when it comes to making a decision

 Drasius wrote:
Competative casual and painting challenge? Quartered marines. Novamarines have a particular spot for me when they're well done on the tabletop

true i have considered doing the howling griffons

My vote would be to go for a Renegades & Heretics list from IA:13, and add in some Daemons as flavourful allies and/or to mix-and-match as your main...

- R&H's are only outdone by Orks when it comes to conversion/building/painting options & challenges.
You literally have free reign of IG/Chaos (both 40k & things like Marauders/newer AoS stuff)/Ork vehicles model lines, plus a tone of 3rd party bitz producers!

- Competitive wise, they can occasionally unseat even Eldar, since literally everything about them is so damn cheap! The biggest issue they face in terms of competitive/tournament play, is that like all horde based armies, it takes time to move so many models.
They get most of the same tanks that IG armies get, larger Sentinel squadrons (at the expense of no Infiltrate/Scout iirc), and you can have your masses of infantry be anything from hyper cheap Guardsmen w/BS2, up to better-kitted out Guardsmen for not that much more than IG Veterans.

- While you're essentially 'Guardsmen minus Orders', you can bring even more guns than the Guard can! Even despite your crappier basic BS, (which can be readily upgraded), your specialised units such as Heavy Weapon Squads can take more guns than the 3 per squad that Imperials are maxed out at.
And going for the Covenant of Tzeentch even gives you slightly better Overwatch ability!

- Choosing your Chaos Covenant and Warlord specialisation is fun!
Depending on your alignment, you unlock options such as Plague Zombies & Blight Drones, to Noise Marines & Sonic Dreads, etc...

- People love playing against R&H's since even if/when you claim a crushing victory, opponents will always have a craptone of stuff they've also likely killed in the process!


Daemons of course add an BB ally option, plus can bring in a good deal of psychic support. (R&H's own psychic ability is pretty much non-existent sadly)

Plus, for if/when you want to be more competitive, then despite their age, Daemons themselves are still holding strong as a lower top tier army. They also got a lot of really cool new wargear/psychic powers/warlord traits & a Decurion style detachment from the CotW campaign book.

Marines are definitely your most flexible option (both in how you play them and how you paint them) but because you're looking for an army that isn't the norm, id be disinclined to recommend them. Experiment 626 describes the potentials of a renegades are particularly well, and I think they're a very good option to consider. You might find playing competitively a challenge, and it's a huge effort to get there painting all those milita and all. But nonetheless! a viable option. The Tyranids suggestion was also a p good suggestion imo. They're fun to play and certainly have competitive builds - even ones that don't revolve solely around flyrants - lictors and mawlocks won a GT recently!

Personally, I'd recommend dark eldar. They have some pretty good competitive builds and there's plenty of ways to tone it down. Yes, they are lacking in the FW department somewhat, but I think they offer an excellent opportunity for fine paintwork and conversions too if you're into that. On the gaming side, DE would offer a very different playing style to your necrons; more so than R&H could.

DE would be my suggestion - that's my two cents

 Brother Payne wrote:
Marines are definitely your most flexible option (both in how you play them and how you paint them) but because you're looking for an army that isn't the norm, id be disinclined to recommend them. Experiment 626 describes the potentials of a renegades are particularly well, and I think they're a very good option to consider. You might find playing competitively a challenge, and it's a huge effort to get there painting all those milita and all. But nonetheless! a viable option. The Tyranids suggestion was also a p good suggestion imo. They're fun to play and certainly have competitive builds - even ones that don't revolve solely around flyrants - lictors and mawlocks won a GT recently!

Personally, I'd recommend dark eldar. They have some pretty good competitive builds and there's plenty of ways to tone it down. Yes, they are lacking in the FW department somewhat, but I think they offer an excellent opportunity for fine paintwork and conversions too if you're into that. On the gaming side, DE would offer a very different playing style to your necrons; more so than R&H could.

DE would be my suggestion - that's my two cents

Oooh I like this. I'm not just saying that because I love my Evil Space Elves either, they're really a very different and fun glass-cannon playstyle that can be done very fluff-friendly, or very competitively with Coven-tricks, Harlequins, and Eldar allies. Also love kitbashing DE's and the bases, oh the bases. A chopped-in-half Marine with your Succubus holding the head aloft, gloriously eee-vil.

 Brother Payne wrote:
Marines are definitely your most flexible option (both in how you play them and how you paint them) but because you're looking for an army that isn't the norm, id be disinclined to recommend them. Experiment 626 describes the potentials of a renegades are particularly well, and I think they're a very good option to consider. You might find playing competitively a challenge, and it's a huge effort to get there painting all those milita and all. But nonetheless! a viable option. The Tyranids suggestion was also a p good suggestion imo. They're fun to play and certainly have competitive builds - even ones that don't revolve solely around flyrants - lictors and mawlocks won a GT recently!

Personally, I'd recommend dark eldar. They have some pretty good competitive builds and there's plenty of ways to tone it down. Yes, they are lacking in the FW department somewhat, but I think they offer an excellent opportunity for fine paintwork and conversions too if you're into that. On the gaming side, DE would offer a very different playing style to your necrons; more so than R&H could.

DE would be my suggestion - that's my two cents

seems kinky space elves might be the best option

Vanilla Marines are boring. I'd opt for GK. They have some nice models and units which are unique in the game, like Purifiers, Draigo, and DKs.

I'd not go with Tyranids. As much as I love their models you have to go with at least a semi competitive list to get anywhere or face endless defeats.

I'll back the Dark Eldar suggestion as well, as long as you keep away from running a Wych Cult it's pretty easy to come up with a varied list that will do pretty well.

Craftworld Eldar are another good choice. Stay away from the cheese of Scatbikes, Wraithknights and massed Warp Spiders (a single unit can be fine, but if they don't have line of sight blocking terrain to hide behind they end up dying quickly) and run Guardians and/or Aspect Warriors you can end up with a decent but not overpower list with a wide variety of options.

Chaos Daemons.
So much variety. Fluffy lists and mono god lists are fun and not competitive but infernal tetrad et al hit hard

checking in with my FLG there is a total of zero renegade players so i might look into this more, is it the siege of vraks book or ia:13?

Vanilla Marines are boring. I'd opt for GK. They have some nice models and units which are unique in the game, like Purifiers, Draigo, and DKs.

the baby carrier model irks me other then that the models are lovely

 Edict wrote:

checking in with my FLG there is a total of zero renegade players so i might look into this more, is it the siege of vraks book or ia:13?

IA:13 is the full blown R&H list, while the updated Vraks is most of a basic Heretics list, but can only be Nurgle or Khorne focused... (iirc, the Vraks options gives more options for CSM inclusion, without the need for an allied or CSM CAD.)

Vraks on the other hand though includes the rules for The Purge detachment, which allows for a CSM codex force to completely forgo Troops entirely. (I believe it gives 6x Elites + 6x Heavy Support slots)
Basically, if you ever want to branch into CSM for the foreseeable future, the Vraks book allows you access to most of the best options from the few that Chaos Marines still have. (only downside is losing out on Bikes/Spawn/Hellturkey)

However, the Vraks books forces you to go Nurgle/Khorne, while the IA:13 can build any of the 4 Gods, and also includes all the FW Chaos vehicles.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Edict wrote:

checking in with my FLG there is a total of zero renegade players so i might look into this more, is it the siege of vraks book or ia:13?

IA:13 is the full blown R&H list, while the updated Vraks is most of a basic Heretics list, but can only be Nurgle or Khorne focused... (iirc, the Vraks options gives more options for CSM inclusion, without the need for an allied or CSM CAD.)

Vraks on the other hand though includes the rules for The Purge detachment, which allows for a CSM codex force to completely forgo Troops entirely. (I believe it gives 6x Elites + 6x Heavy Support slots)
Basically, if you ever want to branch into CSM for the foreseeable future, the Vraks book allows you access to most of the best options from the few that Chaos Marines still have. (only downside is losing out on Bikes/Spawn/Hellturkey)

However, the Vraks books forces you to go Nurgle/Khorne, while the IA:13 can build any of the 4 Gods, and also includes all the FW Chaos vehicles.

I see, i don't have any preference really but which has that horde formation unending host

I'm honestly not sure, since the only "copy" of the R&H rules I have is a *ahem* "googled" version. (FW books are too damn pricey to import!)

I know that the IA:13 list has an HQ ability you can purchase which let's you recycle certain infantry units back into play.