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I might not be the first to come up with this idea, but I think that in order to maintain an army beyond the game point limit.

Let's say you're working on a list for a 1,000 point game. I would suggest you build it as if it is a 900 point list, then slowly add upgrades and extra models on the table to fill it out.

It can scale up or down, to either getting a better weapon for your HQ and some extra grenades in your 500 point game, or a Lord of War in a 2,500 point game.

What do you guys think?

Umm what's the point?

Because I find myself almost always 5 to 15 points above the limit, and that I have to start shaving things off.

This approach makes things easier.

Personally I find that I would rather struggle to trim down a list to fit everything in than have to find ways to bloat up a weaker list to hit the points bar. The only time I add in extra wargear is when I have maybe 10 to 20 points to spare or I had to cut a small unit and it opened up a few points to work with.

Not really interesting. I build a list around many upgrades. I don't take 30 veterans and then start adding upgrades later. I take 10 melta vets and 20 plasma vets. They have defined roles that aren't an after thought if I have 100pts to spare.

While it may be helpful to some, it feels like a wash in the end. If you normal list build, you often find yourself shaving points.

In this manner, you are looking for ways to FILL points instead.

When I list build, I go into it and select which units and upgrades I want to make my list effective, but if I go over, it allows me to reassess my plan and see if I'm over compensating somewhere or if I have some dead weight I can shave to put the points where they really should go. I feel it makes my lists a bit tighter and more effective as opposed to under selecting to conserve and sort of screw my synergy up :(

Melevolence wrote:
While it may be helpful to some, it feels like a wash in the end. If you normal list build, you often find yourself shaving points.

In this manner, you are looking for ways to FILL points instead.

When I list build, I go into it and select which units and upgrades I want to make my list effective, but if I go over, it allows me to reassess my plan and see if I'm over compensating somewhere or if I have some dead weight I can shave to put the points where they really should go. I feel it makes my lists a bit tighter and more effective as opposed to under selecting to conserve and sort of screw my synergy up :(

We follow different approaches to list building, it seems. I prefer to have a relatively effective list at 90% of the point limit, then build up the remaining 10% to have that extra stuff which really helps even the odds. That way, it doesn't feel like I'm compromising anything.

I’ve used that technique for point based RPGs (HERO System) but not for 40k.

I’m a firm belier in boys before toys. The concept that you are better off with more boots on the ground, then with a few, over-equipped ones. Every piece of gear I hand out has a job. There is a little flex in gear, with melta bombs and the like to even out points.

And yes, juggling units to get to the point value can be time intensive. But it makes for a more cohesive list. IMHO.

YMMV, etc.

I enjoy building an entire army at half the points total, then doubling it. Its a great way to have built in redundancy while still meeting all of your army's needs.

SJ

I use the idea, but with a different execution: 10% of my list points must be comprised of markerlights, at least.

I agree with Melevolence. It doesn't make a lot of sense to buy just base units and then upgrade them afterwards. Most of the time, the upgrades are the things that give the unit a useful tabletop role. 5 Tac Marines with no upgrades aren't going to do much, but 5 Tac Marines with a meltagun, a combi-melta, and a Rhino can fulfill at least a couple useful roles.

If list-building is that hard...people need to work on their maths. Or, god forbid drop a single troop from a squad and lose 10-15 points.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
I agree with Melevolence. It doesn't make a lot of sense to buy just base units and then upgrade them afterwards. .

That wasn't the suggestion. What he was proposing was that you build your list as if the points limit is 10 percent lower than it actually is, and then fill in the remaining points afterwards... lets you build your functional force and treat the remainder as a bonus, so if you wind up going over the limit it's not as hard to find something to cut.


It's not a bad idea, but I don't generally have too many problems finding ways to shave off points just using the normal 'cram stuff in until you hit the limit' approach...

 Griddlelol wrote:
Not really interesting. I build a list around many upgrades. I don't take 30 veterans and then start adding upgrades later. I take 10 melta vets and 20 plasma vets. They have defined roles that aren't an after thought if I have 100pts to spare.

Exactly, you add units with the gear they NEED and see where you end up.

Except it doesn't always work like this. Most of the time I find that I'll either be 50pts over or under, and nothing of the required points to drop or add, so I'll have to drop a dreadnought and add another squad or something. WYWIWYG prevents you "upgrading" most models. For example, giving your captain a relic blade instead if a power sword is cool, but when you're still 65pts to go and your options are to add a 5 man tactical squad but then drop melta bombs on another (which your opponent won't allow because you've glued meltabombs) or somehow fit in another unit of 50pts and add non existant meltabombs...

 Deadshot wrote:
Except it doesn't always work like this. Most of the time I find that I'll either be 50pts over or under, and nothing of the required points to drop or add, so I'll have to drop a dreadnought and add another squad or something. WYWIWYG prevents you "upgrading" most models. For example, giving your captain a relic blade instead if a power sword is cool, but when you're still 65pts to go and your options are to add a 5 man tactical squad but then drop melta bombs on another (which your opponent won't allow because you've glued meltabombs) or somehow fit in another unit of 50pts and add non existant meltabombs...

I've never played a game with anyone that's quite that anal about WYSIWYG. Usually I just declare beforehand to my opponent whether or not a squad has melta bombs or such. I try to keep my Marines as WYSIWYG as possible but That seems a bit excessive perhaps.

 bomtek80 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Except it doesn't always work like this. Most of the time I find that I'll either be 50pts over or under, and nothing of the required points to drop or add, so I'll have to drop a dreadnought and add another squad or something. WYWIWYG prevents you "upgrading" most models. For example, giving your captain a relic blade instead if a power sword is cool, but when you're still 65pts to go and your options are to add a 5 man tactical squad but then drop melta bombs on another (which your opponent won't allow because you've glued meltabombs) or somehow fit in another unit of 50pts and add non existant meltabombs...

I've never played a game with anyone that's quite that anal about WYSIWYG. Usually I just declare beforehand to my opponent whether or not a squad has melta bombs or such. I try to keep my Marines as WYSIWYG as possible but That seems a bit excessive perhaps.

You're the lucky one then. Most people are chill about it, but when it gets to the stage where you have to say "These guys have meltabombs, these don't, these Terminators have all powerfists this chainfist doesn't count, etc" because you have to do that and fiddle around just to make the points fit. For example, today I was building a 1500pt list and had 35pts spare. There was literally no way for my to WYSIWYG in 35pts, so I had to throw in my drop pod, then "dis-count" my Vindicator's siege shield (glued on) and a missile launcher because silly 14 year old me had decided Deathwind Missile Launcher was better than Stormbolter, and then had to drop 14pts because I didn't have a model to replace the Missile Launcher wielder so I was running a 9-man squad. So I still ended 19pts under. So I added back the siege shield and a dozer blade on a Razorback, leaving me 4pts under.

Nope, Just stuff in as many powerful units as possible. Spam Spam Spam!

Magnets.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Magnets.

SJ

Seriously, this. You guys all need to learn how to use magnets. They're a godsend.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Magnets.

SJ

Seriously, this. You guys all need to learn how to use magnets. They're a godsend.

I only care about those for very select things, and mostly for allowing me to store/transport units without breaking them more than I give two flying squigs about WYSIWYG :p Then again, I'm casual scum and don't care if someone's Big Choppa Nob happens to be a PK user this game. Provided I know ahead of time.