Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/24 21:03:35
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
|
Here is a hyperbolic story about how Brexit is a sign that Liberal Democratic values are beginning to fail with regular citizens in the "West".
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/06/britons_radical_rejection_of_the_status_quo_should_terrify_all_liberal_democracies.html
However, this little factoid struck me as deeply concerning....
Across most countries in North America and Western Europe, voters have grown deeply dissatisfied with the political class. For a rapidly growing number, this dissatisfaction with particular leaders has started to transform into an actual rejection of democratic institutions. Across North America and Western Europe, the number of citizens who say that it is important to live in a democracy is shrinking. At the same time, the number of citizens who are open to making their countries more authoritarian is rising.
This trend is especially striking in the United States. Two decades ago, 1 in 16 Americans believed that Army rule would be a good way to run the country. Today, it is 1 in 6. The picture is even bleaker among the young and affluent: Support for military rule in this group has increased nearly sixfold, from 6 percent to 35 percent.
Well, is it truly the beginning of the end for Liberal Democracy as its own citizens begin to turn away from it as an effective form of government?
|
Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/24 21:13:40
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
|
Part of me wants to say that none of the western nations have ever actually been a democracy and have never been intended to be one either and that people are just finally wanting the oligarchs to drop the dog and pony show.
The other part will just say yes, my own studying has lead me to believe whether you are left or right on the political scale it would seem some form of authoritarianism is being desired. That being said, it isn't necessarily an overt call for the end of democracy but a gradual collection of regressive (pogressive) decisions/ideals that encroach upon democratic process.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/24 21:14:44
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/24 21:19:12
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
|
I think people conflating any disagreement between themselves and state policy with authoritarianism is on the rise.
The author seems very eager to do exactly what I describe in the above sentence; to equate anyone whose stances are opposed to his/her own with supporting authoritarianism. The article itself actually flies in the face of the authors own supposed notion; that the UK's democratic choice to leave a political entity that is not democratic is somehow undermining faith in democratic institutions? Or is the author suggesting that decision was born from a lack of faith in democracy? I don't know, but it sure as hell doesn't make sense either way. And of course, we gotta hand it to the author who references their own research, which reeks of BS on its face as (1 in 6, really? Most fake numbers at least try to be believable. And published on Polyarchy* no less. Someone really is swing for the bottom of the barrel!). I also challenge this author to provide a convincing argument that right wing politics in the US were ever anything but populist. The entire movement of modern conservatism was born from populist reactionism to the "Great Society."
There's definitely no denying that modern western democracies are experiencing a serious wave of disillusion with notions like "by the people for the people," but this writer seems to go in an utterly bizarre direction equating that with a lack of faith in democracy as a principal.
This is the kind of "quality" writing I expect to come from the Slate
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/24 21:20:25
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/24 21:31:44
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
|
I think a lot of it is perhaps just disillusionment with the 'democratic system' rather than a preference for authoritarianism. The mentioned 'importance' of living in a democracy lessens the more it becomes apparent that the real power lies with the moneymen and the political elite that kowtow to them, or in some notable cases are one and the same. What does the idea of democracy or any other form of government matter when you're still being consistently screwed by multi-billionaires? To the people who consistently find themselves with less and less while a handful at the top get more and more, and whatever way they vote won't change that, why bother voting? (that's a hypothetical, personally I urge anyone who is eligible to go and vote where possible even if it's just to register that they abstain) People are waking up to that, and shifting away from the centrist politics that yield this status quo. You see it on the Right with the rise of Trump and Farage, you see it on the Left in Corbyn and Sanders. I don't think democracy is failing or being rejected, I do think there is a realisation that its role affect on people's lives is increasingly minimal. It's not 'important to live in a democracy' when what you can do within that system means very little and very rarely changes anything. Today's Referendum results demonstrate both that democracy is still fully functional (72% turnout), but also that a result that challenges the status quo will certainly upset the apple cart; it illustrates how heavily the financial sector relies on nothing changing, and how much of a fuss the financial and political elite will kick up when the 'democratic system' doesn't give them the result that best suits them. That's pretty telling, I think. That a fine example of democracy in action, of the people choosing and making a decision, is being described as a disaster and a tragedy just because it's not what the establishment wants, is rather sickening.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/24 21:34:39
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/24 21:33:20
Subject: Re:Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought
|
What is truly scary is the increase of people willing to give up what little input/control they have on their political system.
A military leader would not be terribly interested on what I have to say.
A priminister might that tiny bit because I have a vote and can say many nasty things to other voters if he is not nice...
Are there really that many people who want a friendly dictator to handle it all for them?
Has anyone contacted their local representative?
Ever had any face time?
I have, they respond well to anyone who appears to care enough to "do what it takes".
What is REALLY funny is when both of you think: "How can I get this guy to work for me?".
Try some of that before you write it all off as hopeless.
I have all the power in the world to act on anything that I am sufficiently motivated to make my new "hobby".
One person can change countries, we have plenty of proof of that: just people, not gods.
|
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/24 22:20:40
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
Well currently what is popular is regressive left, and the far conservative.
Authortianism is apart of that.
WE have sex negative people who recently defaced a feminist symbol of woman sexual empowerment with "Stop using woman's bodies." - Signed Feminists.
It is authortative and wanting the other side to confide to your own beliefs and to follow your way of thinking.
IT is actually pretty interesting people are treating equality similar to how someone would worship a god or essence of belief.
Its pretty interesting, but again it is people forgeting and being sucked into a one sided narrative through scare tactics and people being tricked and only shown some of the results of a factoid or history.
Mainly the biggest paradox I think of is the: Simpson’s Paradox.
Which means : "Simpson's paradox, or the Yule–Simpson effect, is a paradox in probability and statistics, in which a trend that appears in different groups of data but disappears or reverses when these groups are combined. It is sometimes given the impersonal title reversal paradox or amalgamation paradox."
It happens when you focus on certain parts of a factoid a forget the numbers behind them....
In a study from 1973 UOC, Berkley was sued for have bias against women, because it in it in its graduate programs : Men were favored to women by 44% to 35%.
With that information on hand a Authortatative person or politically minded would say "Change the school." While only looking at that factoid instead of the ENTIRE research document. People have been sued for it.
Now at first it seems sexist... But then some departments had higher acceptance rates for women, but there was less woman who came into the program because less of them wanted to go to the school, it wasn't sexism it was actually distrubition called the SImpsons paradox.....
From this if we break up the numbers it is actually not sexist, infact the lawsuit was dropped after the numbers came out. Because it was found they weren't it was just less women came into the programs. And people added it up and as percentages are they don't accurately show off what actually happened:
Authortarianism is popular because that is just a theme it happens once in a while. In my generation is more common people want stuff for themselves and not for the good of the community, they live in fear of the outside because of a regressiveness. They are becoming more and more along the lines of Ayn Rand's Ethical Egoist (interested in the self, not the community).
Nothing wholly wrong with it. Just happens in a generation or so.
I am speaking generally, not specifically so have fun with that.
What is truly scary is the increase of people willing to give up what little input/control they have on their political system.
I think it is because people just don't care, they just see something and don't particularly want to deal with it. They want more restrictions because they feel it should belong to the politician,
Are there really that many people who want a friendly dictator to handle it all for them?
Of course not we aren't waiting for our dear leader, because Dictatorships rarely work
Has anyone contacted their local representative?
Yep, I have contacted them before, especially about net neutrality
Ever had any face time?
Yep, with my local government quite often, the board meetings are boring but it is nice to know what is going on, and not live in ignorance.
What is REALLY funny is when both of you think: "How can I get this guy to work for me?".
You can also slip them a twenty if you really feel brave.
You see it on the Right with the rise of Drumpf and Farage, you see it on the Left in Corbyn and Sanders. I don't think democracy is failing or being rejected, I do think there is a realisation that its role affect on people's lives is increasingly minimal. It's not 'important to live in a democracy' when what you can do within that system means very little and very rarely changes anything.
While true we are seeing people like that, but it is mostly because people forget how far money can get you. If I had billions of dollars I have alot more power than a middle class person who makes 100k a year.
I do think we see it with individuals blaming some farflung idealism to the wind instead of focusing on the reality of the situation.
|
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/24 23:31:21
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
It's not Leave voters I have seen question democracy today. There is quite a spin to the coverage here and I think the referendum gave us a little peak into reality. Just going by British media, including BBC coverage, over the last few months, I would never have thought this result possible. I saw the issues reduced to short term economic scare mongering and ad hominem charges of racism. All of that has only been reemphasized today by crestfallen Remain supporters, a thin swipe at the legitimacy of their opponents' franchise. It seems to me that powerful elites in both the UK and the US are sharply and suddenly not having their way and the journalists are ready to somehow paint this as a sign that the people resisting them, the people who are rightfully skeptical of the fragile and ineffective and self serving structures those elites have built and maintained over the last five or six decades, are somehow adverse to democracy.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/24 23:33:31
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I'm still trying to figure out where they got the 1 in 6 would want a military rule here in the US? seriously, maybe one in 6000 maybe, if even that many.
|
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/24 23:47:26
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
|
You know, if the voters are so upset with the politicians they elected maybe they should consider electing better ones. But it's easier to just run with whatever political bias one has rather than, you know, actually researching the people one is voting for.
|
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 00:13:45
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
|
NinthMusketeer wrote:You know, if the voters are so upset with the politicians they elected maybe they should consider electing better ones. But it's easier to just run with whatever political bias one has rather than, you know, actually researching the people one is voting for.
The problem with modern Western democracies however is that sometimes there is no better candidate to be elected. It is like having to vote between Clinton and Trump. From what I gather (don't know much about US politics so forgive if I'm wrong) about them, they both suck. I don't think we are seeing a rise of authoritarianism, if anything we are seeing more democracy. More and more people are fed up with the postmodern neoliberal elites and the existing order of things and make this known. If anything, it is the beginning of the end for neoliberalism (which is about time), not the end for democracy.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/25 00:15:10
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 00:36:55
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Huge Hierodule
|
Iron_Captain wrote: NinthMusketeer wrote:You know, if the voters are so upset with the politicians they elected maybe they should consider electing better ones. But it's easier to just run with whatever political bias one has rather than, you know, actually researching the people one is voting for.
The problem with modern Western democracies however is that sometimes there is no better candidate to be elected. It is like having to vote between Clinton and Trump. From what I gather (don't know much about US politics so forgive if I'm wrong) about them, they both suck.
I don't think we are seeing a rise of authoritarianism, if anything we are seeing more democracy. More and more people are fed up with the postmodern neoliberal elites and the existing order of things and make this known. If anything, it is the beginning of the end for neoliberalism (which is about time), not the end for democracy.
Politicians are like middle management. The only people who choose it as a career path are either power-hungry, or lack any useful skills other than "Good with People".
|
Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?
A: A Maniraptor |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 00:38:08
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Douglas Bader
|
Asherian Command wrote:WE have sex negative people who recently defaced a feminist symbol of woman sexual empowerment with "Stop using woman's bodies." - Signed Feminists.
Thank you for quite nicely proving LordofHats' point about people claiming that any policy disagreement is "authoritarianism". Vandalism for a political purpose is not inherently authoritarianism. In fact, statements like this are generally a request for people to voluntarily change their behavior
It is authortative and wanting the other side to confide to your own beliefs and to follow your way of thinking.
That is not at all what authoritarianism means. If you're going to participate in a discussion on a political concept it's important to first understand what the thing you're discussing actually means. Please do this.
With that information on hand a Authortatative person or politically minded would say "Change the school."
Again, this is NOT what authoritarianism means! A state-operated university changing its admissions policies is not an example of the state taking away your freedom. It may or may not be a good policy decision to make (and may or may not be made for good reasons) but the level of state power is the same either way. And private universities are still free to have whatever admissions policies they want, including limiting their services to men/women only.
|
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 00:52:54
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
|
Is it too early to make a guess that history may repeat itself?
|
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 01:19:31
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Probably not going to happen, since the future generations voted had a super majority to remain (close to 75% for Remain in ages 18-25).
Not to call out Leave voters as xenophobic, but there is a greater sense of multiculturalism found within Remain voters.
|
YMDC = nightmare |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 01:21:03
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
|
Crazy_Carnifex wrote: Iron_Captain wrote: NinthMusketeer wrote:You know, if the voters are so upset with the politicians they elected maybe they should consider electing better ones. But it's easier to just run with whatever political bias one has rather than, you know, actually researching the people one is voting for.
The problem with modern Western democracies however is that sometimes there is no better candidate to be elected. It is like having to vote between Clinton and Trump. From what I gather (don't know much about US politics so forgive if I'm wrong) about them, they both suck.
I don't think we are seeing a rise of authoritarianism, if anything we are seeing more democracy. More and more people are fed up with the postmodern neoliberal elites and the existing order of things and make this known. If anything, it is the beginning of the end for neoliberalism (which is about time), not the end for democracy.
Politicians are like middle management. The only people who choose it as a career path are either power-hungry, or lack any useful skills other than "Good with People".
See that isn't completely true though. More moderate, reasonable candidates do run but they rarely ever get any momentum. And we don't know how many stay away because they know it won't go anywhere. Granted the state we're at couldn't be fixed in a single election cycle, or even several, but if voters consistently chose candidates who stuck to their principles, made promises they could actually keep, and generally conducted themselves in a well-reasoned manner then the situation would steadily improve as those types took over the political scene. Instead voters choose to continually elect and re-elect the same type of people (or abstain from voting at all and let others do the forementioned) and then gripe about how terrible the political body is. People want things to change but god forbid they actually have to change their behavior to make it happen.
|
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 01:27:23
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
Peregrine wrote: Asherian Command wrote:WE have sex negative people who recently defaced a feminist symbol of woman sexual empowerment with "Stop using woman's bodies." - Signed Feminists.
Thank you for quite nicely proving LordofHats' point about people claiming that any policy disagreement is "authoritarianism". Vandalism for a political purpose is not inherently authoritarianism. In fact, statements like this are generally a request for people to voluntarily change their behavior
It is authortative and wanting the other side to confide to your own beliefs and to follow your way of thinking.
That is not at all what authoritarianism means. If you're going to participate in a discussion on a political concept it's important to first understand what the thing you're discussing actually means. Please do this.
With that information on hand a Authortatative person or politically minded would say "Change the school."
Again, this is NOT what authoritarianism means! A state-operated university changing its admissions policies is not an example of the state taking away your freedom. It may or may not be a good policy decision to make (and may or may not be made for good reasons) but the level of state power is the same either way. And private universities are still free to have whatever admissions policies they want, including limiting their services to men/women only.
Talking about in general not just as a political thing. If you want to talk down about the opinion I expressed then please do in a PM.
I am mainly talking where people are being authoritative person meaning as a commanding person, not talking about policies of people though we do have people who believe in that Social Marxists or Socialists or communists often believe in authoritarianism.
I do think it is a trend though.
|
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 01:44:54
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
|
Democracy and authoritarianism have at least one thing in common; that the individual will is subject to the will of standing political authority (whether it be a direct vote, elected officials writing laws, or a dictator). So yeah. If there is a vote to "stop using women's bodies" and it passes, it is presumed that you will abide by the vote as a member of the democratic polity even if you voted against the measure. That's how democracy works. Win or lose, you're still subject to the decision. Of course, most modern democracies have some form of civil rights, though they all vary in how sacred/enforced those rights are (can actually be seen as a degree of authoritarian infusion into democratic processes, which of course makes the OP article even more hilariously poorly thought out).
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/25 01:49:56
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 01:47:39
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Douglas Bader
|
Then you clearly don't know what "authoritarianism" means. Talking about "authoritarianism" in any context other than politics simply does not make any sense because it's a political concept about increasing state power. Attempting to apply it to a case of individual citizens disagreeing with other individual citizens does not work at all.
If you want to talk down about the opinion I expressed then please do in a PM.
Or I could do it in public. If you don't like public disagreement then don't post your opinions in public.
I am mainly talking where people are being authoritative person meaning as a commanding person, not talking about policies of people though we do have people who believe in that Social Marxists or Socialists or communists often believe in authoritarianism.
But you can't make a bait and switch like that. In a discussion of authoritarianism as a political concept you can't just quietly substitute some definition about "being commanding" or whatever. Speaking very loudly and confidently about a subject is not in any way comparable to the state imposing strict laws about what you can and can't do.
|
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 02:02:24
Subject: Re:Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
I think that point is lost on many, LoH. The Guardian is currently running a propaganda vid showing young Remain supporters, including some who are too young to vote, bemoaning the Referendum not only as a matter of the result but almost in principal - for example, complaining about eldsters voting. My feeling is, these children and many of their parents have no commitment to democracy itself. If there is a threat of authoritarianism, it is not looming over the horizon. Rather, it has been looming over us for years already. This time, they have not come in paramilitary uniforms - they have smart, modern suits. The idiom of the generalissimo is dead. The icon of authority today is the expert. No little red books now - today they wave "studies" around, or at least op/ed "journalism."
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 02:19:55
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
Does not make any sense because it's a political concept about increasing state power.
*looks up definition*
1 : of, relating to, or favoring blind submission to authority <had authoritarian parents> 2 : of, relating to, or favoring a concentration of power in a leader or an elite not constitutionally responsible to the people <an authoritarian regime>
Synonyms
bossy, authoritative, autocratic (also autocratical), despotic, dictatorial, domineering, imperious, masterful, overbearing, peremptory, tyrannical (also tyrannic), tyrannous
Yes that is one of its definitions I was using the other widely known definition that is often placed upon people quite often. You can use it in many scenarios, infact you have an authortative opinion. Where it is quite overposed to mine as you clearly hold your opinion higher than you do mine.
In this circumstance though It is a bit of both, we see certain types of people want to have a bigger government, submissive peoples or people who just don't care often go towards big government, while authortative people sometimes go for it as well. Certain groups that impose social Authoritarianism is common and is an essential part of the Regressive Left.
But you can't make a bait and switch like that. In a discussion of authoritarianism as a political concept you can't just quietly substitute some definition about "being commanding" or whatever. Speaking very loudly and confidently about a subject is not in any way comparable to the state imposing strict laws about what you can and can't do.
Bait and switch?
I didn't bait anyone, I showed factoids that people often use in arguments to try and show "This is why we need regulations"
Or "This is why we need ETC"
People want to impose upon others what they think is better for everyone. Thus they are Authoritative as per definition of the word. Authoritarian in politics is becoming a trend because it is bred through many different ways either through social upbringing or being taught in schools such as I was that Big Government thus a more powerful State (Country) is better for the US, than a smaller government. Infact we had it painted in a black and white scenario most of the time. Often siding with the Authoritative Liberal side than the Conservative side.
I saw someone used percentages and I looked up those percentages. I had to in this case educate people about Simpson's Paradox. Which happens quite often when people use facts or percentages. I then went on to give examples of people who would often go against these types of things they are called authoritative people who are wanting people to follow their own rules.
In certain cases they are people who do support (ironically) governments and a larger state power. Even though they are Authoritative, as they support Authoritarianism, they have lived through it their entire life and consider it normal. While people who haven't are horrified by it.
At times we can assume certain types of things but in terms of authoritarianism which is a byproduct of people imposing upon others and infringining on their rights then yes it is quite related, it is because people from certain political groups are more likely to support. IE marxists, marxist feminists, sex negative feminists, MRA, and many other groups have more of a tendency to be in support of these types of things that we called Authoritarianism.
Though I could be completely wrong mostly, its just me guessing. And trying to figure out why it is such a large phenomenon. Automatically Appended Next Post: Manchu wrote:I think that point is lost on many, LoH. The Guardian is currently running a propaganda vid showing young Remain supporters, including some who are too young to vote, bemoaning the Referendum not only as a matter of the result but almost in principal - for example, complaining about eldsters voting. My feeling is, these children and many of their parents have no commitment to democracy itself. If there is a threat of authoritarianism, it is not looming over the horizon. Rather, it has been looming over us for years already. This time, they have not come in paramilitary uniforms - they have smart, modern suits. The idiom of the generalissimo is dead. The icon of authority today is the expert. No little red books now - today they wave "studies" around, or at least op/ed "journalism."
I can concur with that, in schools you see teachers encourage it.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/25 02:21:02
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 04:20:58
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Douglas Bader
|
Asherian Command wrote:Yes that is one of its definitions I was using the other widely known definition that is often placed upon people quite often.
Except "authoritarian" and "authoritarianism" are not the same thing. The former has some more diversity in its application, the latter refers specifically to a political concept. And the OP clearly references "authoritarianism", both in the exact word choice and in the article text.
In this circumstance though It is a bit of both, we see certain types of people want to have a bigger government, submissive peoples or people who just don't care often go towards big government, while authortative people sometimes go for it as well. Certain groups that impose social Authoritarianism is common and is an essential part of the Regressive Left.
Even if this is true neither of your examples had anything to do with authoritarianism. Loudly saying "I DON'T LIKE THIS PLEASE STOP" is not authoritarianism, nor is a state university changing its admissions policies. They may be things you disagree with, and maybe even things that I disagree with, but they aren't examples of the state taking away an excessive amount of freedom.
Bait and switch?
Yes, it's a bait and switch. You came into a thread about a political concept and tried to quietly substitute your own, different, definition for the word and only mentioned the difference once I called you on it.
I didn't bait anyone, I showed factoids that people often use in arguments to try and show "This is why we need regulations"
"Regulations" and "authoritarianism" are not the same thing.
Though I could be completely wrong mostly, its just me guessing.
You are completely wrong, and you're proving the point that was mentioned earlier about "anything I disagree with is authoritarianism". For example, those anti-sex feminists aren't generally advocating laws restricting sex between consenting adults, they're saying "you should change what you're doing" with no power to force anyone to change. MRAs are often complete  s, but where their beliefs have anything at all to do with government policy it's at least in theory about increasing freedom. Marxists want to change the government in significant ways, but that doesn't necessarily mean a major loss of freedom. Etc.
|
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 05:05:45
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
I just finished reading "To Hell and Back: Europe 1914-1949"and it is quite chilling to see similar patterns pan out. Obviously you're not going to see a genocidal juggernaut like the Third Reich in modern day Europe, but where liberal social democratic policies are thought to have failed (or indeed have) right-wingers are continuously gaining ground.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 05:10:21
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
|
DutchWinsAll wrote:
I just finished reading "To Hell and Back: Europe 1914-1949"and it is quite chilling to see similar patterns pan out. Obviously you're not going to see a genocidal juggernaut like the Third Reich in modern day Europe, but where liberal social democratic policies are thought to have failed (or indeed have) right-wingers are continuously gaining ground.
There is still a way to go before the Right wing can actually pull off anything significant.
|
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 05:23:19
Subject: Re:Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
You guys talk about "the Right" like anything but centre-left politics is inescapably crypto fascism.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 05:25:37
Subject: Re:Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
Manchu wrote:You guys talk about "the Right" like anything but centre-left politics is inescapably crypto fascism.
I think I have only talked about the regressive left. I support left politics, but I don't like it when it strains to a political area of idiocy.
Right has its problems. Each side has its problems. Authoritarianism is more common in the left, because they favor big government while Right is horrified by the notion of a big government. Hence why I haven't at all talk about the right.
|
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 05:29:15
Subject: Re:Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
|
Asherian Command wrote: Manchu wrote:You guys talk about "the Right" like anything but centre-left politics is inescapably crypto fascism.
I think I have only talked about the regressive left. I support left politics, but I don't like it when it strains to a political area of idiocy.
Right has its problems. Each side has its problems. Authoritarianism is more common in the left, because they favor big government while Right is horrified by the notion of a big government. Hence why I haven't at all talk about the right.
Yes, but last time I checked, wasn't Hitler a Right winger? Or was he Left because he was technically part of a "socialist" party?
|
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 05:32:21
Subject: Re:Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
Tactical_Spam wrote: Asherian Command wrote: Manchu wrote:You guys talk about "the Right" like anything but centre-left politics is inescapably crypto fascism.
I think I have only talked about the regressive left. I support left politics, but I don't like it when it strains to a political area of idiocy. Right has its problems. Each side has its problems. Authoritarianism is more common in the left, because they favor big government while Right is horrified by the notion of a big government. Hence why I haven't at all talk about the right. Yes, but last time I checked, wasn't Hitler a Right winger? Or was he Left because he was technically part of a "socialist" party? Hitler was an Authoritarian Right if I remember correctly. As he wanted a conservative country but he wanted all the power. So IE Dictatorship. Most commonly I think of big brother, not a Dictatorship that is technically the most common government on the planet next to democracy. So I stand corrected
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/25 05:32:53
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 05:33:36
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
I think that the authoritarian tendencies we live with today tend to come ftom the left politically but from the right culturally. I know many conservatives who balk at expanded government oversight but at the same time revere the military, the most terrifying of all government institutions.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/25 05:35:14
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 05:38:33
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
Manchu wrote:I think that the authoritarian tendencies we live with today tend to come ftom the left politically but from the right culturally. I know many conservatives who balk at expanded government oversight but at the same time revere the military, the most terrifying of all government institutions. Is that universal to the world or only to the United States? I completely agree, but maybe its because we have to deal with the everyday Leftist Authoritarian (Harrison Beurgeon being a great example of this at its worst form) beliefs over the right authoritarianism (The Third Reich being an example of this). National unity sometimes breeds it as we saw in the Third Reich and even with the Roman Empire.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/25 05:41:32
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/06/25 05:41:09
Subject: Is Authoritarianism on the Rise?
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
I only meant the US.
|
|
|
 |
 |
|