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So I have a Culexus Assassin and a Vindicare Assassin. I am debating which one I should run with my Crimson Fists, if one at all. My current list has two Rapier Quad Mortars and a squad of Lascannon Devastators. I would probably replace the Devastators with the Assassin.

At any rate, if running one isn't a bad idea, which one should I run? I am also open to the idea of getting one of the Assassins I am missing.

Getting rid of non-skyhammer devastators is usually a good idea for any list. I guess devs in gladius is okay, too with 2X grav cannon in a Rhino.

Honestly, now that you can't drop pod in a Culexus, it requires a bit more forward thinking to deploy it properly.

Depending on how competitive you play, I have always been a fan of the Callidus. Turn 1 being on top of a heavy weapons unit, flaming them with a ap2 poisoned flamer, and being only hit on snapshots for that turn is not bad. That, and the first reserve roll your opponent makes is at -2, so if they have a plane in reserve, you are going to probably delay it a turn.

The Eversor is a distraction carnifex, and I've never been a fan of the Vindicare. Especially since the Vindicare got nerfed between the Grey Knights codex and the Assassins dataslate.

The Culexus is less sexy now that the libby formation got hit with the nerf bat.

Martel732 wrote:
The Culexus is less sexy now that the libby formation got hit with the nerf bat.

How did the Libby formation get nerfed?

 CrownAxe wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The Culexus is less sexy now that the libby formation got hit with the nerf bat.

How did the Libby formation get nerfed?

The guy being channeled into can only cast up to his mastery level each turn.

Martel732 wrote:Getting rid of non-skyhammer devastators is usually a good idea for any list. I guess devs in gladius is okay, too with 2X grav cannon in a Rhino.

I am just running a CAD, so they aren't Skyhammer nor are they Rhino-Grav Devs. Sucks to take them out since they are supposed to be the bread and butter of a 'Fists army. The Rapier Quad Mortars can deal with vehicles (8 shots of Str 8 reroll Pen is probably about as effective against tanks, plus they have their blasts). If I run a Vindicare, he could possibly put a hole in a tank as well. Of course, I do have a squad of Combi-Melta Sternguard as well as a squad of Combi-Grav Sternguard, plus my Scout Sergeants have Melta Bombs. So vehicles aren't exactly a big fear of mine.

Crazyterran wrote:Honestly, now that you can't drop pod in a Culexus, it requires a bit more forward thinking to deploy it properly.

Depending on how competitive you play, I have always been a fan of the Callidus. Turn 1 being on top of a heavy weapons unit, flaming them with a ap2 poisoned flamer, and being only hit on snapshots for that turn is not bad. That, and the first reserve roll your opponent makes is at -2, so if they have a plane in reserve, you are going to probably delay it a turn.

The Eversor is a distraction carnifex, and I've never been a fan of the Vindicare. Especially since the Vindicare got nerfed between the Grey Knights codex and the Assassins dataslate.

The Callidus would be my next choice beyond the ones I own. I will have to check her out a little more. Heh...phrasing.

Fists get tank hunter, right? But that doesn't mean squat vs MCs. That's where lascannons really fall apart. Honestly, most tanks you can ignore and the rest you just melta. IKs die to melta really fast too. But not MCs. See the trend?

Against toe in cover MCs, your lascannon team causes a massive 1.48 wounds. At that rate, you'll be overrun easily.

Martel732 wrote:
Fists get tank hunter, right? But that doesn't mean squat vs MCs. That's where lascannons really fall apart. Honestly, most tanks you can ignore and the rest you just melta. IKs die to melta really fast too. But not MCs. See the trend?

Just Fists Devastators get Tank Hunters. Agreed, MCs can ignore my Lascannons (hence the Combi-Grav Sternguard, not ideal, but they get the job done, Pedro and the Honour Guard are my MC hunters otherwise). The Vindicare can reliably slap a wound on stuff too.

As of right now, I am leaning Vindicare.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Fists get tank hunter, right? But that doesn't mean squat vs MCs. That's where lascannons really fall apart. Honestly, most tanks you can ignore and the rest you just melta. IKs die to melta really fast too. But not MCs. See the trend?

Just Fists Devastators get Tank Hunters. Agreed, MCs can ignore my Lascannons (hence the Combi-Grav Sternguard, not ideal, but they get the job done, Pedro and the Honour Guard are my MC hunters otherwise). The Vindicare can reliably slap a wound on stuff too.

As of right now, I am leaning Vindicare.

I've tried to imagine a good target for lascannons, and I can't think of any. I guess mega nobz. And tyranid warriors. Yay.

Martel732 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Fists get tank hunter, right? But that doesn't mean squat vs MCs. That's where lascannons really fall apart. Honestly, most tanks you can ignore and the rest you just melta. IKs die to melta really fast too. But not MCs. See the trend?

Just Fists Devastators get Tank Hunters. Agreed, MCs can ignore my Lascannons (hence the Combi-Grav Sternguard, not ideal, but they get the job done, Pedro and the Honour Guard are my MC hunters otherwise). The Vindicare can reliably slap a wound on stuff too.

As of right now, I am leaning Vindicare.

I've tried to imagine a good target for lascannons, and I can't think of any. I guess mega nobz. And tyranid warriors. Yay.

But I like my Lascannons :( I still have plenty of options for dealing with stuff that the Lascannons are meant to deal with that probably do the job even better anyway.

It really disappoints me that the Culexus isn't as necessary anymore.

Theyve been pretty hit or miss for me. Except the vindicaire, he somehow manages to fail every single time. He's always just about to do something amazing, but it never works out. But the same goes for all snipers in our group, imperial or otherwise. Almost feels like they're cursed. They also never seem to die. Especially that space elf sniper, whatever he's called.

The other three either perform great or die without so much as moving. Had an Eversor chew through like 3 squads all on his own, including terminators. Was the first time we used him and my opponent kept adding more units to an ongoing assault to see how he would hold up. So not exactly a normal situation but suffice to say there was a lot of WRRRYYYYYYYYY involved.

Culexus is awesome against Nids, but I personally love Vindicare the most, even tough he's not cost efficent. Something about badass snipers gets to me, I guess. Also sniping vehicles is always fun.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Honestly, now that you can't drop pod in a Culexus, it requires a bit more forward thinking to deploy it properly.

This part of the FAQ is chaffing me so badly. If droppods had to change - fine. But why change it for all battle brother transports? Apparently GW just couldn't stand my fluffbunny DCA hitching a ride in my Grey Knight Stormraven. That list had to die. Can't put my Culexus in there anymore either.

It would have been enough to nerf the culexus to simply not have the aura extend out of vehicles, but they probably wanted to punch things like Skitarii in allied pods in the junk.

Belac Ynnead wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Honestly, now that you can't drop pod in a Culexus, it requires a bit more forward thinking to deploy it properly.

This part of the FAQ is chaffing me so badly. If droppods had to change - fine. But why change it for all battle brother transports? Apparently GW just couldn't stand my fluffbunny DCA hitching a ride in my Grey Knight Stormraven. That list had to die. Can't put my Culexus in there anymore either.

Because that was too powerful of a mechanic.

Martel732 wrote:

Belac Ynnead wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Honestly, now that you can't drop pod in a Culexus, it requires a bit more forward thinking to deploy it properly.

This part of the FAQ is chaffing me so badly. If droppods had to change - fine. But why change it for all battle brother transports? Apparently GW just couldn't stand my fluffbunny DCA hitching a ride in my Grey Knight Stormraven. That list had to die. Can't put my Culexus in there anymore either.

Because that was too powerful of a mechanic.

I think it was too powerful for droppods - and perhaps scythe wraithgard in raiders. But you can still do that with webway portals anyway, so it's moot. I don't see allied stormravens breaking the game.

Sure, I guess. SR's are pretty bad, though.

Can't speak for any other assassins, but th vindicare is trash. 6 shots per game for 100 something points? Keep the lascannons.

Unless you're playing a cabal and your opponent has one, then knock yourself out

 Crazyterran wrote:
It would have been enough to nerf the culexus to simply not have the aura extend out of vehicles, but they probably wanted to punch things like Skitarii in allied pods in the junk.

I don't think it required any nerfing. Psychic death-star units are 1 demential and should have hard counters. Invisibility is clearly broken and requires a hard counter. Storm ravens are practically useless now. Why not just Nerf invisibility?

To answer the OP's question though - the vindicare is the best assassin. Hes a good tank hunter.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So I have a Culexus Assassin and a Vindicare Assassin. I am debating which one I should run with my Crimson Fists, if one at all. My current list has two Rapier Quad Mortars and a squad of Lascannon Devastators. I would probably replace the Devastators with the Assassin.

At any rate, if running one isn't a bad idea, which one should I run? I am also open to the idea of getting one of the Assassins I am missing.

Doesn't strike me as a particularly fluffy unit selection.

Vindicare and Culexis are both fun models to play; I think Vindicare is more satisfying, but Culexis is more points-efficient.

Against the right enemy, Culexis has the potential to be an easy-to-play game-changer (and against the wrong enemy, just don't field him). On the other hand, with Vindicare, you're just trying to get snipe back your points; a lot of times it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but you could do the same sort of things (less satisfyingly, perhaps) with other models.

 Talys wrote:
Vindicare and Culexis are both fun models to play; I think Vindicare is more satisfying, but Culexis is more points-efficient.

Against the right enemy, Culexis has the potential to be an easy-to-play game-changer (and against the wrong enemy, just don't field him). On the other hand, with Vindicare, you're just trying to get snipe back your points; a lot of times it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but you could do the same sort of things (less satisfyingly, perhaps) with other models.

My goal with the Vindicare is to cripple Command Squads by taking out the Apothecary, then moving on to the attached Commander. I don't tend to play against the Psychic Phase much. If I did, I would be more apt to use the Culexus. The Callidus does sound fun though.

You'd be better off sniping grav cannons and apothecaries. Putting shots on an HQ is pointless, as Turbopen doesn't ignore invulns anymore and he can still los on a 4+...

I mean, you get 49 points a shot if he has gravs, pretty much. Though you'd have to kill an entire dev squad to pay for the vindicare...

He's the worst of the lot, Imo.

 Crazyterran wrote:
You'd be better off sniping grav cannons and apothecaries. Putting shots on an HQ is pointless, as Turbopen doesn't ignore invulns anymore and he can still los on a 4+...

I mean, you get 49 points a shot if he has gravs, pretty much. Though you'd have to kill an entire dev squad to pay for the vindicare...

He's the worst of the lot, Imo.

Good point. I tend to play against Dark Angels, specifically Ravenwing. Knocking the RWCS down a peg is always important since it makes it easier for me to take the rest down. But I don't ever see Grav Cannons so the HQ was the next logical choice.

My vindicare has proven to be very hit or miss in the games I have used him. Given that hes not instakilled turn 1 by any S8 or higher, and given how the dice roll he can be a very scary threat. For 150 points however, and to be so easily killable its very much a crap shoot.

I've played games where he would one shot vehicles left and right, and just be absolutely devastating, and others more often than not where he can barely kill anything worthwhile, or ultimately eats it before ever even being able to make up his point cost. Call me crazy but given the fluff and how insane the assassins are supposed to be, they should at least have eternal warrior. It wouldn't make them super tough to kill since they are still T4, just give them a little bit more for their points cost.

Culexus is the most competitive assassin. Permanent pseudo-invis, ap2 possible ID melee with ludicrous melee stats, 1-3 (weighted to 3) s5 ap1 BS 8 shots in the psychic phase, and a ludicrous suite of special rules enemy psykers have to worry about. Sucks that he can't pod in anymore, but he can still outflank and scare the opponent from putting psykers near any table edge, or infiltrate by a solid LOS blocking terrain in the middle to hide until he can jump out and charge someone.

Callidus is next, as the ability to come in from the rear edge can scare opponents into deploying things like artillary more forward. A turn of snapshot protection, hit and run, and some screw-with-reserves-and-seizing abilities make her a decent choice.

The Vindicaire is on the low end. One shot per turn is unacceptable. Especially when you figure in that today's game has FNP, RP, invulns, and multi-wound monsters everywhere. He used to be good because single wound special weapons and sergeants with a bunch of gear used to be okay, and they made him able to earn his keep. His desired prey no longer exists competitively, so he's mostly out of a job. He's okay at taking out dark eldar vehicles/land speeders...but if you need help at that... :/
Also he isn't all that sturdy. Even sitting in ruins with stealth, 3 krak missile or better wounds and he's done. You would think he would at least have a 2+ cover in ruins like Telion from the UM, who is only 1/3 the cost.

Even below the Vindicaire, who can at least maybe stay safe by being a mile away while trying to do his job, is the eversor. He can't do his job without getting close, and he's just a 3 wound t4 guy with 4+ invuln and 5+ FNP. 2 str 8 wounds or 9 lasgun/scat/anything wounds and he's out. Benchwarmer supreme in shoothammer.

All the above is just competitively speaking though. If you're facing mutilators and vespid at your local tables, by all means any of them will work fine.

Huh, I totally missed the part where Culexus ignore Armor. Definitely going to go with the Culexus.

One thing you have to remember with the Vindicare is you're paying a lot for the same thing you're paying for with a Lascannon or ML: range.

Shame he will unlikely make his points back.