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Hello,

Last night I played my second game of 40k ever. I played Chaos Space Marines/Demons.My opponent kept counting "Bloodlust points" or "Blood points" and when he got to whatever number he summoned a huge 300pt demon thing. I won the game by a huge landslide, so I didn't make him qualify the following question with his codex, but I feel like he is wrong.

So when One of his units died he got a "blood point" - fine awesome whatever. But he was also getting one when his squad/unit leaders died. I feel like that is wrong. That's 2 points per unit. Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel like there is no way he is getting 2 pts per unit- 1 for the unit as a whole and one for "the units leader" as he put it?

Thanks for the help in advance, and I'm sorry if these terms are too vague or I'm not being specific enough.
-Juicy

He was playing the Khorne Daemon Kin Codex.

See: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Khorne_Daemonkin(7E)

The key mechanic is the Blood for the Blood God special rule. Which lets the army gain blood points when a unit or character dies or kiills.
Those points can be spent on buffs or summoning additional units.

I haven't played KDK myself, but there are discussions on BFtBG and how it works

 Stephanius wrote:
He was playing the Khorne Daemon Kin Codex.

See: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Khorne_Daemonkin(7E)

the page is blank.

 Stephanius wrote:
when a unit or character dies

My codex be away at the moment. Are Sargent's characters? I believe they are. Just want a confirmation.

JuicyPVP wrote:

 Stephanius wrote:
He was playing the Khorne Daemon Kin Codex.

See: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Khorne_Daemonkin(7E)

the page is blank.

Add the last ) in the address bar.

JuicyPVP wrote:

 Stephanius wrote:
He was playing the Khorne Daemon Kin Codex.

See: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Khorne_Daemonkin(7E)

the page is blank.

 Stephanius wrote:
when a unit or character dies

My codex be away at the moment. Are Sargent's characters? I believe they are. Just want a confirmation.

Generally speaking, yes. Sergeants and other unit leaders are typically characters. Obviously, looking at the Codex entry is your best bet, but a general rule of thumb is that if a unit leader/model has a different name and profile, it's almost always a Character.

Space Marines Sergeants are Characters. Chaos Space Marines Aspiring Champions are Characters. Eldar Exarchs are Characters. Et cetera.

 Ghaz wrote:

JuicyPVP wrote:

 Stephanius wrote:
He was playing the Khorne Daemon Kin Codex.

See: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Khorne_Daemonkin(7E)

the page is blank.

Add the last ) in the address bar.

Okay. So here is another issue...
"Fury Unbound - 8 points. Find a character without the Daemon of Khorne USR. He must test Leadership. If he fails, he's gone (And now your enemy is awarded for Slay the Warlord if you used your Warlord). If he passes, you now have a new Unfettered Fury Bloodthirster with the same WT, and if that guy was your warlord, the thirster's now your Warlord. Like Dark Apotheisis, your original model is still "removed as a casualty" and the new Bloodthirster is summoned to the table via deep strike so doesn't get into killing straight away." via the link

He didn't do any leadership tests and this big thing came in and assaulted same turn. He said it doesn't count as deep strike. He also didn't loose a guy, and placed the big thing 12" from one of his guys towards my guy, not in place of his dude. Actually Im pretty sure the only character he had left was his deamon because he kept putting his characters in front to let them die and get blood points. Hmmm. I wish there were more knowledgeable people at my local- I won like 15 rules challenges people argued against me and I've only played 2 games. People kept saying what he was doing was correct. I'm thinking a lot of cheaty things happened... what ever I still won 7-1 with him quitting on turn 3, I just want to know what's the right way to play. /rant over/

I wouldn't immediately leap to cheating. Some people are just bad at rules. I had to explain how Eldar Jetbikes roll 2D6 for Assault movement rather than a fixed movement three times to one person.

pm713 wrote:
I wouldn't immediately leap to cheating. Some people are just bad at rules. I had to explain how Eldar Jetbikes roll 2D6 for Assault movement rather than a fixed movement three times to one person.

(don't most things assault on 2d6? lol)

I agree, but in this instance he definitely was cheating. I watched him move a model 3" closer to the edge of the board when he thought I wasn't looking, then rolled how far they ran away after failing his moral check because he wanted them to die since the once 10+ man unit now had 2 models- BftBG... I was winning so hard I just decided it would be better to not call him on it. I am fine with onlookers not knowing the rules of armies they do not play- I am, but my opponent was definitely doing cheaty things.

JuicyPVP wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I wouldn't immediately leap to cheating. Some people are just bad at rules. I had to explain how Eldar Jetbikes roll 2D6 for Assault movement rather than a fixed movement three times to one person.

(don't most things assault on 2d6? lol)

I agree, but in this instance he definitely was cheating. I watched him move a model 3" closer to the edge of the board when he thought I wasn't looking, then rolled how far they ran away after failing his moral check because he wanted them to die since the once 10+ man unit now had 2 models- BftBG... I was winning so hard I just decided it would be better to not call him on it. I am fine with onlookers not knowing the rules of armies they do not play- I am, but my opponent was definitely doing cheaty things.

That's charge moves. I was referring to the special move Eldar Jetbikes and Jet Infantry make in the Assault phase instead of charging.

In that case I'd call them on it. Cheating is just sad.

JuicyPVP wrote:
(don't most things assault on 2d6? lol)

pm713 meant that Eldar Jetbikes get to do a Thrust Move in the same way as Jet Pack units (i.e. 2D6" in the Assault Phase, in any direction). I think it was a fixed value a few editions ago, not sure.

Note that the new draft FAQ's allow the summoned Bloodthirster to arrive in Gliding mode (previously it was forced to arrive Swooping, meaning switching flight modes the following turn and only allowed to assault the turn after that). It's still Deep Strike, so no assaulting the turn it arrives.

To be fair the only thing that states they deep strike is a d designers note. It's terribly placed.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
To be fair the only thing that states they deep strike is a d designers note. It's terribly placed.

The Designer's Note which describes how Summoning works, I believe.

A couple of points:

You only get the 250 point bloodthirster, not the 300 point one with blood tithe .

It arrives by deep strike and cannot assault the same turn. It can arrive gliding and assault next turn.

As per the latest (draft) faq characters do not generate a blood point when killed, unless they are killed in a challenge. Independent characters will still generate a blood point when killed (2 in a challenge)

nosferatu1001 wrote:
To be fair the only thing that states they deep strike is a d designers note. It's terribly placed.

But he still had to do like 3 more things in order to have the bloodthirster come in the correct way. IDK maybe im being the "rules lawyer" nut I am new and want to learn the rules, not just play it however I feel like it.

As for the jetbikes- got ya. Kind'a how snipers used to have Rending (or just rend I forget the exact keyword) and do not anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
A couple of points:

You only get the 250 point bloodthirster, not the 300 point one with blood tithe .

It arrives by deep strike and cannot assault the same turn. It can arrive gliding and assault next turn.

As per the latest (draft) faq characters do not generate a blood point when killed, unless they are killed in a challenge. Independent characters will still generate a blood point when killed (2 in a challenge)

I need to read the FAQs still. If this is the case he would have only had 4 points (1 from cheating that unit off the board). I was running DA Lion's Blade Battle company with snipers and deathwind launchers on my drop pods- I shot everything. I think Im guna buy the Chaos codex (or both? idk) there are a lot of chaos players at my local. Might be good to actually know their rules for myself.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
A couple of points:

You only get the 250 point bloodthirster, not the 300 point one with blood tithe .

It arrives by deep strike and cannot assault the same turn. It can arrive gliding and assault next turn.

As per the latest (draft) faq characters do not generate a blood point when killed, unless they are killed in a challenge. Independent characters will still generate a blood point when killed (2 in a challenge)

Doesn't the new faq allow you to choose any Bloodthirster you want or was that only for the conjuration?
And he wasn't cheating about getting two blood points....for now. The faq clarifies that, as Captyn_Bob said, but they are still drafts, so whether you adhere to them or not is entirely optional for the time being.
Of course, if he wasn't using that, he had no business assaulting the turn after summoning, much less the same turn.
And faq or not, the character in question will die from dark apotheosis or summoning the thirster. So yea, pretty phony overall.

The codex specifies that it is a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury that is summoned as a result of the 'Fury Unbound' result on the Blood Tithe Table.

 Ghaz wrote:
The codex specifies that it is a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury that is summoned as a result of the 'Fury Unbound' result on the Blood Tithe Table.

The FAQ (Linky) refers to the Malefic Summoning power:

Q: If you play Daemons and you successfully summon a Bloodthirster using the Daemonology psychic powers, what profile will the Bloodthirster have: the one in Codex: Chaos Daemons, or one of the ones in Codex: Khorne Daemonkin?
A:You can choose to use any of the army list entries from Codex: Chaos Daemons, Codex: Khorne Daemonkin or War Zone Fenris: Curse of the Wulfen – but not Skarbrand!

 Quanar wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
The codex specifies that it is a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury that is summoned as a result of the 'Fury Unbound' result on the Blood Tithe Table.

The FAQ (Linky) refers to the Malefic Summoning power:

Q: If you play Daemons and you successfully summon a Bloodthirster using the Daemonology psychic powers, what profile will the Bloodthirster have: the one in Codex: Chaos Daemons, or one of the ones in Codex: Khorne Daemonkin?
A:You can choose to use any of the army list entries from Codex: Chaos Daemons, Codex: Khorne Daemonkin or War Zone Fenris: Curse of the Wulfen – but not Skarbrand!

So he should have gotten that specific deamon, not to choose one? And I think he was pulling stuff from the FAQ and from the stuf the FAQ changed, like just choosing the best of what he wanted. But Im not sure. Havent read the codex, or the FAQ as of this second (going to read soon).

So I think there's some confusion here. There are 2 ways to summon a BT. The first is via the "Possesion" psyhic power, which the FAQ addresses which BT you can summon (any of them). As KDK have not Psykers, we can ignore "Possesion".

The other method "Fury Unbound" by using Blood tithe point is what is being discussed in this topic. I am not aware that an FAQ has addressed the KDK wording at all, meaning the BT summoned by "Fury Unbound" must be the "Unfettered Fury BT"

There is one FAQ that addressed all manners on summoning FMCs and that no matter how you do it, you can choose to come in Swooping or Gliding, but that is just a side not for this topic.

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