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 Maddermax wrote:
There is a current of Racism that runs deep in Australia, and the hatred of Islam is definitely just a new cover for that old hatred. Remember the "Anti-Islam" poster child, Pauline Hanson, started as an Anti-Asian candidate in the late 90s when there was panic about "Asian Invaders" immigrating to the country legally. She's just found a new target to let out her Racism, using the cover of another form of ..."socially acceptable"... bigotry.

I think most anti-islam people would be horrified to think other people consider Pauline Hanson as their poster child.

Whether or not you agree with an anti-religious sentiment, racism is distinct from anti-religion. Racism is judging a person based on their race when race has no bearing on someone's value system. However someone's religion, assuming they take it seriously, directly impacts that person's values.

I think ignorance that leads to labelling everything as racism has in turn led to people like Donald Trump and over here Pauline Hanson getting so far. I would never vote for Pauline Hanson because I think she's a frakking moron racist and One Nation leaders come across as ignorant fools... but I can see why some people who maybe aren't racist themselves but are anti-religious or don't like cultural enclaves forming might end up voting for Hanson, because they don't see recognition of their views coming from the major parties.

 Knight wrote:
It's an interesting subject as I considered Australia to be relatively open society.

It really is. I think people really over state the racism in Australia. And when I say racism, I specifically mean disliking someone based on race. I think there's more anti-religioners and anti-foreign culture people than there are racists. You get a few ignorant morons anywhere you go, I've had people yell out racist things at me in various countries I've been in, only once in Australia and it was by some stupid little bogan teenagers who were just trying to be funny and get a rise, I don't judge Australians based on a couple of stupid kids and I hope others don't either.

Fair enough points AllSeeingSkink.

I will say though, that I work in a local shop, low socio-economic area, low education, high crime, high drug-alcohol abuse, so definitely very skewed, but we're not exactly great on racism.

There's a pretty strong racist bent under the guise of anti-religion. The white Muslims (not many, oddly, but a few) are not the target. It's Arab-looking people who are targeted, under guise of being anti-islam. What they have to put up with is unbelievable.

We also have a pretty strong cultural bent against Nyoongars, although, thank god, thats working on being pushed out. Still very prevalent.

Same goes for Asians. Owner is actually Asian, and the amount of insults, threats and property damage he cops because of it is staggering. People seem to think it's justified because of his race.

This isn't everyone, obviously, but it's definitely prevalent enough to notice. We are a nice enough place to live, but we sure as hell have our issues to work on.

As to the election, I was hoping the ALP would pull through, even if it meant a coalition. I worry about some of the Liberals policies this time around, which isn't great.

As to the election, I was hoping the ALP would pull through, even if it meant a coalition. I worry about some of the Liberals policies this time around, which isn't great.

I'm mixed. I don't agree with all of Labor's policies nor all of Liberals and there's a lot of areas where they aren't actually that different from each other.

Labor tends to err on the side of socialism which I don't like (I'm not entirely against some socialist institutions, but I tend to be very selective of them).

It'd be nice if the major parties weren't so similar to each other

I will say though, that I work in a local shop, low socio-economic area, low education, high crime, high drug-alcohol abuse, so definitely very skewed, but we're not exactly great on racism.

Perhaps you just live in a very racist part of Australia

I guess I also prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt when something looks like racism but might be something else.

What you describe; low socio-economic area, low education, high crime, high drug-alcohol abuse.... that pretty well describes the suburb I where grew up and currently live. With an Indian parent and myself looking middle eastern, any instances of racism are few and far between (like, years and years apart).

And I don't judge Australians as a whole or feel disappointed with Australia as a whole based on the feelings of a very small group. The same way I don't judge Americans based on the 1 dude who yelled something racist at me when he drove past, I base it on the 99 Americans who were incredibly friendly, kind, helpful, etc.

In your area I would imagine the reason it's against middle eastern looking muslims more than white muslims is simply because they are the ones more easily identifiable as muslim, unless the white muslims are wearing thobe, a ghutra or a hijab, which is pretty rare.

Same goes for Asians. Owner is actually Asian, and the amount of insults, threats and property damage he cops because of it is staggering. People seem to think it's justified because of his race.

You said you live in a low socio-economic area, are you 100% sure it's not just abusive people being abusive for the sake of being abusive rather than specifically racism? I know one shop owner who finally decided to move because he kept getting property damage and a couple of break ins primarily from drunk or drugged idiots.... and he's as white Australian as white Australian gets.

Some areas are just crap places to live and you'll get abuse for whatever the kids can think up.

Again, I don't think it's representative of the wider Australia.

I must admit I prefer Labours more Socialist bent, as long as it doesn't go to far, but some of our best leaders have been Liberal, and I go back and forth, depending on current policies. I actually don't mind that the major parties are fairly close, because I don't hugely oppose any major policies from either. It means that the turnover is smoother, and we can, in general, have programs continue.

In regards to racism, no, its very definitely not representative of Australia, but it does exist. It's also very specifically racism. They don't target the white butchers, chemist, fish and chip store, etc, on the street. When he apprehends someone they fill the shop screaming about 'going back to where you came from', and a bunch of other things I don't think I'd repeat if it was allowed.

It's much less prevalent in the city, which is much more cosmopolitan, but hey, we're part of Australia voted the most bogan. Probably has a huge thing to do with it.

I don't think people quite get how small a percentage of the Australian population Asians make up. They're outnumbered by both Poms and Kiwis.

We perceive them as being everywhere because they move into areas with higher white populations (where as our Indian populations, Lebanese populations and so on tend to clump together and don't spread out).

I'd like to read an article about the subject, however looking for it isn't that high on my priority list.

Most Slovenians that immigrated there reported positive experience. The worst conflict that I know from various stories was openly displaying drinks (holding alcohol) while walking with their partner and being randomly harassed by some Arab looking guys.

When it comes to politics I usually stumble on green energy projects that the Australia has. I think Australians put some serious budget restrains on them in the last 4 years.

The Liberals are now very likely to end up with 76 seats, and win government by themselves. People have talked about slim majorities... but it's all just talk. 76 seats (75 after you appoint the speaker of the house) is enough to get anything through the lower house. 76 seats might as well be 120 as long as they keep a tight uniformity. So then it becomes a question of discipline within the ranks of the Liberal party, whether the far right of the Liberal party will fall in to line behind Turnbull. That was always going to be a problem, whether Turnbull had a majority of 1 or 100. Given some of the rumblings we've heard, especially Andrew Bolt's epic dummy spit calling for Turnbull to resign, I'd say the far right still hasn't learned its lesson.

Thing is, I think this senate will actually be quite workable. There's a common idea that any time the senate has a balance of power held by minor parties then it becomes impossible for government to get anything done. But that's because in the past the balance of power has generally been held by the Greens, and those guys just say no to everything because that's the most fun way to be self-righteous. But most other independents typically work with government. And what's more, in a funny way needing 6 out of 10 people to approve a piece of legislation is probably easier than needing 2 out of 3.

If the Libs get their gak together, find a way for the center to work with the far right, then they have every chance of getting their legislation over the line. If not, well then Shorten will be PM.

 Maddermax wrote:
There is a current of Racism that runs deep in Australia, and the hatred of Islam is definitely just a new cover for that old hatred. Remember the "Anti-Islam" poster child, Pauline Hanson, started as an Anti-Asian candidate in the late 90s when there was panic about "Asian Invaders" immigrating to the country legally. She's just found a new target to let out her Racism, using the cover of another form of ..."socially acceptable"... bigotry.

Yep, very well said. If anyone doubts that at it's core this is anything other than a xenophobic fear of the other, then Pauline Hanson is the perfect argument. She was able to switch from being concerned about Asians to being concerned about Muslims, without any supporters noticing those are two completely different types of people.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Whether or not you agree with an anti-religious sentiment, racism is distinct from anti-religion. Racism is judging a person based on their race when race has no bearing on someone's value system. However someone's religion, assuming they take it seriously, directly impacts that person's values.

Except that within a religion there is massive diversity. In any religion there will be fanatics and the devout, but there will also be many more people for whom it plays a very minor part in their lives.

Really, any time you see that person belongs to some group, whether it's race or a religion or anything really, and then you start making assumptions you're doing it wrong. Whether it's seeing someone has black skin and assuming they must be good at basketball, or seeing someone is Muslim and assuming they must have regressive views about gender equity... it's a really dysfunctional way to look at the world.

And unfortunately it's a kind of thinking that is driving many of the new political parties we've seen in this election.